topic Re: Suggestions for score improvement in General Credit Topics

Suggestions for score improvement

CreditBones — Tue, 06 Oct 2020 04:43:07 GMT

Wishing you all a Happy October!

For me it started as sweet & sour...

Sour:
Finally I decided on subscribing to myFICO, which came with a crude and sour reality of the real scores I have, being way lower than I expected them to be. So my gardening is going to be more strict and harsh than I had anticipated. Nothing I can do, other than to wait for 3 inquiries, and one baddie to fall off in late May 2021, another one in Fall 2021, and a few others before 2023 ends. The result of disregarded finances between 2014 and 2016. Oh, well...

Now, onto the SWEEEEET:
My wife joined Navy Federal Credit Union a week ago, and I was able to join today through her. I have a thin and weak credit file on Equifax & TransUnion, so this membership will help me rebuild some of it. I initially opened a Shared Savings, and Checking accounts, but as soon as my direct deposit starts piling up on it, I will request a share secure loan. I have yet to research secure credit cards that can graduate into unsecure, but I definitely see that in the near future after the share secure loan has processed. My Resilience Index is Moderate at 51, because: 1) I don't have an installment loan, and 2) I have a High % of AU accounts (I am AU in 3 of my 5 CC). Will secured credit cards count towards better scores and resilience index, or will that be a bad idea in my case?

Any and all suggestions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Suggestions for score improvement

Remedios — Tue, 06 Oct 2020 04:45:10 GMT

@CreditBones I've moved your post and created a thread so you can get help and suggestions. Applications cannot be discussed there, and with all the side chatted, your questions may be overlooked.

Good luck with accomplishing your goals!

Re: Suggestions for score improvement

CreditBones — Tue, 06 Oct 2020 05:15:56 GMT

@Remedios wrote:
@CreditBones I've moved your post and created a thread so you can get help and suggestions. Applications cannot be discussed there, and with all the side chatted, your questions may be overlooked.

Good luck with accomplishing your goals!

@Remedios I apologize, I misunderstood. I was under the impression that soft pull applications were part of the gardening conversation. I failed to read the "no credit applications" on the top right.

I do appreciate you moving the comment to a new thread for it not to be overlooked, though.

😏👍🏼

Re: Suggestions for score improvement

Slabenstein — Tue, 06 Oct 2020 05:50:16 GMT

I don't know about the resilience index (and I don't think anyone here has a good idea of how that one works), but adding a third card for which you are responsible, whether secured or unsecured, should benefit your other FICOs. The more recent FICO models have an anti-abuse algorithm that may or may not be discounting your AU accounts from scoring, but even if it isn't I think it's good to have at least three of your own cards so you have a base of credit you can carry with you into the future, regardless of what happens with your AUs. Three cards is also a good number for doing the AZEO score-boosting technique, which is when you have one of your cards report a small balance while the others all report $0. (To do AZEO w/ AU for FICO 8 & 9, you also want one of the AU cards to report a small balance.)

If secured cards are all that is available to you with your current profile, then I think they can be a very good idea in your case, as long as you get the right ones. Basically, you want one that 1) doesn't have and AF or other harvester fees and 2) will graduate. Two that meet both criteria and, imo, are two of the best secured cards available are the NFCU secured and Discover secured, so that's where I would start.

Re: Suggestions for score improvement

Anonymous — Tue, 06 Oct 2020 08:59:31 GMT

I did that AZEO theory and my scores went down....

Re: Suggestions for score improvement

CreditBones — Tue, 06 Oct 2020 18:17:03 GMT

@Slabenstein wrote:
If secured cards are all that is available to you with your current profile, then I think they can be a very good idea in your case, as long as you get the right ones. Basically, you want one that 1) doesn't have and AF or other harvester fees and 2) will graduate. Two that meet both criteria and, imo, are two of the best secured cards available are the NFCU secured and Discover secured, so that's where I would start.

I definitely would prefer not to lower my scores with hard inquiries for unsecured cards if the option of improving my scores with secured cards is available. Your two suggestions of $0 AF, and being able to graduate are a must! Thx for the reminder. I will research NFCU & DISCOVER for these. Thanks for that too!

Re: Suggestions for score improvement

Slabenstein — Tue, 06 Oct 2020 18:22:23 GMT

When you look up the Disco secured card, I'd also check their preapproval site for offers. W/ your EX score, it's possible they'd offer you an unsecured card.

Re: Suggestions for score improvement

CreditBones — Tue, 06 Oct 2020 18:30:30 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I did that AZEO theory and my scores went down....

I had $0 UTIL on all my cards, and it was hurting my scores, even though I was purchasing an average of $1k with each, and paying it all off before bill cycles' end date. I decided to leave 1% on each, and it raised my scores. But I have read so much about the "proven" AZEO method, that I am willing to try it for at least 6 months, and switch cards onto which one to leave the 1% UTIL, that way none would be dormant (in terms of UTIL, I would keep using them to gain cash back/reward points). As soon as I have more input, I could contribute with my experience.

Re: Suggestions for score improvement

CreditBones — Tue, 06 Oct 2020 18:53:41 GMT

@Slabenstein wrote:
When you look up the Disco secured card, I'd also check their preapproval site for offers. W/ your EX score, it's possible they'd offer you an unsecured card.

I believe my BANKCARD scores are "good enough" for an unsecured card, but given the situation, I would try not to risk lowering my scores with hard inquiries that would last for 2 years, if a secured card that can graduate would enhance my credit file without the hard inquiry... (((if))) that is a real scenario that could work, and I am not just being delusional. 😂

Re: Suggestions for score improvement

Slabenstein — Tue, 06 Oct 2020 19:27:11 GMT

Most secured cards, including Disco and NFCU, are still going to be an HP to apply. The nice thing about the Disco and Amex prequal sites is that they're a soft pull to see where you stand. (The NFCU prequal site, unfortunately, isn't reliable.) If you take them up on an offer and actually app, then it's an HP, but not before. Regarding HPs and scores in general, they're nothing to be afraid of, as long as you take them sparingly. They become unscorable after one year, and, for most profiles, the score impact of having a small number of HPs on a bureau is going to be fairly minimal. So you'd want to avoid, eg, stacking a bunch of HPs on your reports by spamming apps for cards your profile doesn't support, but if you do a reasonable amount of due diligence in researching a lender and knowing your profile before you app, you can be strategic and keep HPs to a minimum. For example, the reason I mentioned checking Disco's prequal is that, iirc, they tend to pull either EX or EQ, and your EX score is def high enough for one of their cards. So if their prequal doesn't return any uns offers, then you know not to spend an HP on what is likely a denial, but if you see a solid offer w/ a specific APR for an uns card, then you can be pretty confident that they're looking at EX and would approve you.

Re: Suggestions for score improvement

CreditBones — Tue, 06 Oct 2020 19:53:23 GMT

@Slabenstein wrote:
Most secured cards, including Disco and NFCU, are still going to be an HP to apply. The nice thing about the Disco and Amex prequal sites is that they're a soft pull to see where you stand. For example, the reason I mentioned checking Disco's prequal is that, iirc, they tend to pull either EX or EQ, and your EX score is def high enough for one of their cards. So if their prequal doesn't return any uns offers, then you know not to spend an HP on what is likely a denial, but if you see a solid offer w/ a specific APR for an uns card, then you can be pretty confident that they're looking at EX and would approve you.

You see?, you are one of the many reasons I love this forum! I was under the impression that secured credit applications would not involve a HP. I stand corrected, and I now understand why you pointed me in that direction. Would a NFCU Shares Secure Loan be a hard pull too?

I am already an AU on 2 AMEX accounts with great pymt history since they opened back in 2017 & 2018 respectively. And I believe they look good for me to try an unsecured card with them. Between that, and my BANKCARD scores, I think I am good to go. I will try the pre-app sites, and see what is the outcome. Thanks again!

Re: Suggestions for score improvement

Slabenstein — Tue, 06 Oct 2020 20:01:57 GMT

Almost any actual new credit you apply for is going to be an HP. I think some fee harvester/credit builder cards aren't, but they wouldn't be worth paying for in your case. So NFCU is going to HP you for the shared secure loan, but they may let you use that same HP for a cc app if it's made w/in a month of the pull. I know some CUs will let you do that, but I'm not sure if NFCU specifically does. If you want to reduce the HPs you take, it's something you could ask about.

Re: Suggestions for score improvement

CreditBones — Tue, 06 Oct 2020 23:21:00 GMT

@Slabenstein wrote:
The nice thing about the Disco and Amex prequal sites is that they're a soft pull to see where you stand. (The NFCU prequal site, unfortunately, isn't reliable.) For example, the reason I mentioned checking Disco's prequal is that, iirc, they tend to pull either EX or EQ, and your EX score is def high enough for one of their cards. So if their prequal doesn't return any uns offers, then you know not to spend an HP on what is likely a denial, but if you see a solid offer w/ a specific APR for an uns card, then you can be pretty confident that they're looking at EX and would approve you.

Ok, this is where I am at right now... I went onto the AMEX and DISCOVERY pre-qual offers sites. On the AMEX, I already have a login as an AU, and it provides a tab for pre-qual offers, so I did not need to provide any additional personal info. I was prompted with 6 credit cards with no AF... However, 5 of them showed this on their details:

The other one, showed this other spec:

Then, I went onto the DISOVER pre-qual offers site, entered my personal info, it specified twice during the process that it would not affect my credit, so thumbs up, and it came back with these two:

Even though you stated NFCU pre-qual offers site is unreliable, I just entertained the idea, and this is what came back:

The DISCOVER offers seem solid for my untrained eye... AMEX, just the last one, as well as the NFCU Secured CC.

Would it be advisable to call them, or just submit online... or to even submit an app based on these pre-qual offers?

Would it be advisable to submit a cred app for more than one product with all 3 financial institutions if the same HP is used?

How do you see the panorama, and my path ahead?

Thank you again for the input.

Re: Suggestions for score improvement

Slabenstein — Wed, 07 Oct 2020 00:17:37 GMT

With regards to the Amex prequals, it looks like the "Blue from American Express" is only offered at that APR & wouldn't show a range regardless, so I wouldn't take that one as more solid than the others. Getting a range for APRs wouldn't necc. mean you wouldn't be approved, so if one of those cards is one you really like, it still might be worth apping. The Disco prequals look solid, esp. since it's showing their best APR for new cards. I think the NFCU prequal site just shows everyone all of their cards, regardless. They're a pretty open lender, tho, so I'd feel fairly confident apping for one of their cards w/ your scores. Similarly to the one Amex card, their secured card is showing a set APR b/c they only offer it at their highest rate.

I think the only case where you'd be able to get more than one product from one these lenders w/ one HP would be Navy, if they let you use the same HP for both your loan and a cc. Navy requires a 90 day wait between cc apps, and only lets you app for one cc at a time.

As far as the path ahead, I'd advise to think about what you want from a new card, and then make a comparisson among these to see which might best fit your needs. E.g. if you want a flat cb card, NFCU cashRewards & Amex Cash Magnet are both 1.5%. Disco It CB is a 5% rotator that works well supplementing other cb cards. If you want cb on groceries, there's NFCU More & Amex BCP or BCE. Among the Amex cards, you'd also want to look at which ones offer cash back and which ones offer MR's and which would work best for you. I'd also look at what sign-up bonuses are being offered with the different cards and whether you could meet them with your expected spend. You could also make a ranked list of the cards you like the most in order of preference so you could apply for them in that order until you have an approval. That way, you have your cleanest, HP-free profile for the card you wanted the most, and if you don't get it you can apply to your next preference w/ only one HP, etc. So, e.g., if the card you like most ends up being one of the Amex, you could apply even though you didn't get a solid APR prequal, and if you're declined the solid-looking Disco offers are still an option through the 13th.

One other thing to note w/ NFCU is that Flagship has a minimum SL of 5k, so it's usually advised to apply for one of their other cards first, since they often start you out w/ a small-ish SL on your first card w/ them.

Re: Suggestions for score improvement

CreditBones — Wed, 07 Oct 2020 01:11:32 GMT

@Slabenstein wrote:
With regards to the Amex prequals, it looks like the "Blue from American Express" is only offered at that APR & wouldn't show a range regardless, so I wouldn't take that one as more solid than the others.
Makes sense.

Getting a range for APRs wouldn't necc. mean you wouldn't be approved, so if one of those cards is one you really like, it still might be worth apping.
Well, in my case, I am trying to make my credit file more robust before 2023, when 1) some baddies would have fallen out, 2) my wife's credit file has improved, and 3) we have saved $15k for the down pymt of the car we would like to own. So there is not really any of them in particular that I would "really like", but definitely I can try to choose the card with the best rewards.

The Disco prequals look solid, esp. since it's showing their best APR for new cards.
👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼

I think the NFCU prequal site just shows everyone all of their cards, regardless. They're a pretty open lender, tho, so I'd feel fairly confident apping for one of their cards w/ your scores. Similarly to the one Amex card, their secured card is showing a set APR b/c they only offer it at their highest rate.
Got it!

I think the only case where you'd be able to get more than one product from one these lenders w/ one HP would be Navy, if they let you use the same HP for both your loan and a cc. Navy requires a 90 day wait between cc apps, and only lets you app for one cc at a time.
Got it! I am interested in the secured loan because it would diversify the type of credit beyond having only CCs, and I would definitely try to apply for one of their CCs if they let me use the same HP.

As far as the path ahead, I'd advise to think about what you want from a new card, and then make a comparisson among these to see which might best fit your needs. E.g. if you want a flat cb card, NFCU cashRewards & Amex Cash Magnet are both 1.5%. Disco It CB is a 5% rotator that works well supplementing other cb cards. If you want cb on groceries, there's NFCU More & Amex BCP or BCE. Among the Amex cards, you'd also want to look at which ones offer cash back and which ones offer MR's and which would work best for you.
None of the cards offered in the pre-quals would be better than the 2 AMEX I am an AU (in terms of cash back or member rewards points). But I would definitely choose the cards with the better rewards. 👍🏼

I'd also look at what sign-up bonuses are being offered with the different cards and whether you could meet them with your expected spend.
Good point. I'll have this as part of the choosing criteria. My wife and I have a pretty good established monthly spending, so meeting their mark would not be an issue.

You could also make a ranked list of the cards you like the most in order of preference so you could apply for them in that order until you have an approval. That way, you have your cleanest, HP-free profile for the card you wanted the most, and if you don't get it you can apply to your next preference w/ only one HP, etc. So, e.g., if the card you like most ends up being one of the Amex, you could apply even though you didn't get a solid APR prequal, and if you're declined the solid-looking Disco offers are still an option through the 13th.
Got it. I like the ranked list idea!
I was thinking of applying for AMEX, DISCOVERY, and NFCU, all in the same day, not to give chance for the credit file to show a HP to any of the other lenders.

One other thing to note w/ NFCU is that Flagship has a minimum SL of 5k, so it's usually advised to apply for one of their other cards first, since they often start you out w/ a small-ish SL on your first card w/ them.
Got it. Flagship was not on my preliminary list of cards, just because it has an AF. I just included it there for you to see everything I was being pre-qual'd for.

I really appreciate the time and free knowledge you are willing to share with me, and the rest of the members. It has given me a clearer path to follow.

I will most likely submit all of the applications tomorrow, and report back as soon as I have any update.

By any chance, do you know if there is a thread with info where I can find who do AMEX, DISCOVER, and NFCU pull from.

Thanks again!

Re: Suggestions for score improvement

Slabenstein — Wed, 07 Oct 2020 02:49:06 GMT

@CreditBones wrote:
By any chance, do you know if there is a thread with info where I can find who do AMEX, DISCOVER, and NFCU pull from.

Check out this thread: https://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/General-Credit-Topics/The-quot-Which-Banks-Pull-Which-Report-For-Apps-quot-list/td-p/5542910. Very ymmv, but it can give you some idea what to expect. Also note that, though you were talking about bankcard industry scores earlier in the thread, most cc lenders just use regular FICOs.

Also, just fyi that you will probably see a score drop, in the short term, if you open three new cards, just b/c it will lower your AAoA. But if you're not planning any other credit moves until 2023, it should still help you in the long run b/c by then you'd have three more cards aged 2-3 years.

Re: Suggestions for score improvement

OmarGB9 — Wed, 07 Oct 2020 05:21:17 GMT

@CreditBones wrote:
@Slabenstein wrote:

You could also make a ranked list of the cards you like the most in order of preference so you could apply for them in that order until you have an approval. That way, you have your cleanest, HP-free profile for the card you wanted the most, and if you don't get it you can apply to your next preference w/ only one HP, etc. So, e.g., if the card you like most ends up being one of the Amex, you could apply even though you didn't get a solid APR prequal, and if you're declined the solid-looking Disco offers are still an option through the 13th.
Got it. I like the ranked list idea!
I was thinking of applying for AMEX, DISCOVERY, and NFCU, all in the same day, not to give chance for the credit file to show a HP to any of the other lenders.

Just wanted to jump in real quick, you can't hide the HPs. They're pretty much always instant. So, as soon as you apply for your first card, you'll take a HP which will be visible for the next app, and then the third app would see the HP from the second. This is assuming of course they pull the same reports. Amex pulls EX. Disco usually EX or EQ (or both), but sometimes TU. I know NFCU pulls TU for apps.

Re: Suggestions for score improvement

CreditBones — Wed, 07 Oct 2020 05:59:08 GMT

@Slabenstein wrote:
@CreditBones wrote:
By any chance, do you know if there is a thread with info where I can find who do AMEX, DISCOVER, and NFCU pull from.
Also, just fyi that you will probably see a score drop, in the short term, if you open three new cards, just b/c it will lower your AAoA. But if you're not planning any other credit moves until 2023, it should still help you in the long run b/c by then you'd have three more cards aged 2-3 years.

I was counting on the score drop. But that exactly was my planned strategy, just as you described it. I have 3 years until fall 2023 for all of the baddies to have dropped, including existing inquiries, and these new inquiries. Also, the existing accts would have age 2 more years. It's true that my AAoA would drop, but I would have at least a long term personal loan via NFCU (and hopefully a CC with that same HP), wishfully a Discover CC, and if lucky enough; an AMEX CC, allowing me to say goodbye to a thin credit file.

Re: Suggestions for score improvement

CreditBones — Wed, 07 Oct 2020 06:33:37 GMT

@CreditBones wrote:

Got it. I like the ranked list idea!
I was thinking of applying for AMEX, DISCOVERY, and NFCU, all in the same day, not to give chance for the credit file to show a HP to any of the other lenders.

@OmarGB9 wrote:
Just wanted to jump in real quick, you can't hide the HPs. They're pretty much always instant. So, as soon as you apply for your first card, you'll take a HP which will be visible for the next app, and then the third app would see the HP from the second. This is assuming of course they pull the same reports. Amex pulls EX. Disco usually EX or EQ (or both), but sometimes TU. I know NFCU pulls TU for apps.

Ooops, there goes my fabulous plan down the drain! 😂

Thank you for jumping in to clarify.

Lets see how far I can row tomorrow before my 🚣‍♀️ capsizes.

1st one will be the secured loan at NFCU. If they allow the CC app with the same HP, then that will go next. Then the Discover, and then the AMEX right after.

I am inexperienced, thus ignorant about the weight of the risk of wasting 3 HPs and being declined for at least 2 CCs, versus the WIN of making it all work, and heal before 2023. But, I know that even if I fail with this move, its outcome will never be as bad as how it was back then in 2011 for me. I think that makes me relentless, and maybe stupid at the same time! 😂😂😂

Re: Suggestions for score improvement

Slabenstein — Wed, 07 Oct 2020 06:46:50 GMT

@CreditBones wrote:

I am inexperienced, thus ignorant about the weight of the risk of wasting 3 HPs and being declined for at least 2 CCs, versus the WIN of making it all work, and heal before 2023.

If you're not planning to app for anything else, taking 3-5 HPs is a pretty minimal risk, imo, even if you come out of it with only one or two cards. If I've followed you correctly, you're at zero HP now, and the new ones will be spread among the three bureaus so you'll likely be at 1-2 per after.