topic Re: SPs disappearing from reports in General Credit Topics

SPs disappearing from reports

Curious_George2 — Thu, 24 Sep 2020 05:12:03 GMT

Like many members here, I like to keep an eye on which creditors are keeping an eye on me. As often as possible, I try to get updated credit reports from sources that show SPs. In looking over a few months' worth of those today, I noticed something surprising: many SPs disappear after about a month.

The clearest example I see is that Capital One SPs my TU and EX reports every month, but the reports I receive always only show the one most recent SP. So in June I can see their June SP. Then in July there is a new one shown for July but there is no mention of the one they did in June. This continues, month after month.

Something similar is happening with Amex's account review inquiries but it's less consistent and harder to describe concisely. The dates of Amex's SPs line up with the dates of the FICO scores they show me, so they are being a bit more candid about the extent to which they are montoring my credit. CapOne seems to be covering their tracks in a way that I find a little troubling. If I wasn't pulling my own reports as often as I am, there would be no way for me to know how often CapOne was doing account reviews. That seems... wrong.

Is it normal for SPs to vanish after just a month? Is it legal?

Re: SPs disappearing from reports

Ficoproblems247 — Thu, 24 Sep 2020 11:08:24 GMT

It's not just you, it seems to be the trend for various lender's periodic ARs. Some lenders use the same moniker for both their ARs and their credit monitoring services which makes it even more difficult to decipher. Chase's ARs and Credit Journey both just show up as "Chase" for example, while their promotional marketing pulls show up as JPMCB Card. I don't see any harm in simply showing the most recent one. If you're concerned, I would recommend keeping a spreadsheet or jotting the dates down in the notebook.

Re: SPs disappearing from reports

rostrow416 — Fri, 25 Sep 2020 00:14:18 GMT

Maybe it's the source you are getting the reports from. When I go to submit a dispute online with the credit bureaus, my reports list all the soft inquiries - and there sure are a lot of them. Lenders like Cap One are listed multiple times, and all their recent SPs are included.

Re: SPs disappearing from reports

OmarGB9 — Fri, 25 Sep 2020 01:10:13 GMT

I don't see how it'd be "illegal." I mean, we know our creditors keep tabs on us all the time, and as long as they're not HPing you to do it, I don't see how deleting old SPs (which may not even be their fault; it could be the service you're using as mentioned above or it could be the CRAs themselves deleting/merging SPs together) is wrong.

Question, why is it so important to know how often they're SPing you? Most people outside of MyFICO don't even know what HPs and SPs are, let alone keep track of who is SPing them and how often.

Re: SPs disappearing from reports

Anonymous — Fri, 25 Sep 2020 01:26:14 GMT

CRAs dump SPs and even regular inquiries on thick files. It would seem to be a split file mitigation tactic since it's cheaper to wipe out valid data than actually upgrade systems to address the issue.

EX purges my hard inquiries early, sometimes less than a year before they are gone, and EQ dumps SPs pretty regularly.

Credit Karma hits my EQ with SPs multiple times per week, sometimes multiple times per day, and that surely makes for a large file but as of right now, the oldest SP from them is from September 1st because EQ purged the rest.

I don't really know why EX dumps my inquiries early but it benefits me so whatever. 🤷‍♂️

Re: SPs disappearing from reports

Ficoproblems247 — Fri, 25 Sep 2020 02:03:52 GMT

I'm assuming OP is getting data from annualcreditreport.com. That is where I am

viewing my SPs, and while pulls from some lenders seem to stick around for years, there are certainly others that seem to drop off once the next SP is performed, just as OP is referring to. No, it doesn't make any real difference, but what is the point of these forums if not to dissect the inner workings of various FIs and the FICO algorithms? I also agree with @Anonymous in that it's probably to prevent split files. I can't imagine that storage would be a real factor as text files take virtually no space. The amount of SPs I receive is insane due to all of the credit monitoring products I am subscribed to.

Re: SPs disappearing from reports

Curious_George2 — Fri, 25 Sep 2020 05:17:24 GMT

Yep, ACR is my source for these. That's as official as we consumers can get, right?

In response to the question of why it matters to me (which strikes me as quite rude): I care partly because I am engaged in the hobby of trying to understand the systems used for credit reporting and scoring. This is a forum devoted to that purpose. Seems like the right place to post questions like this.

Also, I am watching Capital One in particular because I have been trying for months to understand their CLI rules in more detail. I understand that most people don't care enough to bother. That's fine. But for me, it is helpful to know what facts they are basing their decision on. If they say my Util is too high, I want to know which report they pulled and when, so I can understand exactly what they considered to be too high.

Re: SPs disappearing from reports

Curious_George2 — Fri, 25 Sep 2020 05:26:49 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
CRAs dump SPs and even regular inquiries on thick files. It would seem to be a split file mitigation tactic since it's cheaper to wipe out valid data than actually upgrade systems to address the issue.

EX purges my hard inquiries early, sometimes less than a year before they are gone, and EQ dumps SPs pretty regularly.

Credit Karma hits my EQ with SPs multiple times per week, sometimes multiple times per day, and that surely makes for a large file but as of right now, the oldest SP from them is from September 1st because EQ purged the rest.

I don't really know why EX dumps my inquiries early but it benefits me so whatever. 🤷‍♂️

Interesting. The data storage issue hadn't occurred to me. Like you, I have long lists of SPs from CK and other services like it. Seems a little weird that the CRAs' databases would allow for bloat there, yet limit CapOne and Amex to one each. But maybe.

That's cool that you get EE of HPs on EX!

Re: SPs disappearing from reports

OmarGB9 — Fri, 25 Sep 2020 05:30:51 GMT

@Curious_George2 wrote:
Yep, ACR is my source for these. That's as official as we consumers can get, right?

In response to the question of why it matters to me (which strikes me as quite rude): I care partly because I am engaged in the hobby of trying to understand the systems used for credit reporting and scoring. This is a forum devoted to that purpose. Seems like the right place to post questions like this.

Also, I am watching Capital One in particular because I have been trying for months to understand their CLI rules in more detail. I understand that most people don't care enough to bother. That's fine. But for me, it is helpful to know what facts they are basing their decision on. If they say my Util is too high, I want to know which report they pulled and when, so I can understand exactly what they considered to be too high.

My apologies, I did not mean to come off as rude. I was simply curious why it was so important, as usually it's only HPs that people worry about since those are visible to other lenders when applying for credit/some lenders are inquiry sensitive. I understand now. Again, I apologize.

As for your watching Capital One, my understanding is they update the SP on file for you every 2-3 months, so perhaps you could try to look through the SPs and find the one's coded as AR and try to figure it out that way.

Re: SPs disappearing from reports

Curious_George2 — Fri, 25 Sep 2020 06:08:35 GMT

Apology accepted. Glad we're back on topic...

I had read the same thing about the frequency of CapOne's updates, but it turns out the conventional wisdom is not true, at least in my case. Here's a list of the times (that I know of) they have SP'ed me since April 1:

4/9/2020 TransUnion (Disappeared)
4/13/2020 Experian (Disappeared)
5/9/2020 TransUnion (Disappeared)
5/15/2020 Experian (Disappeared)
6/9/2020 TransUnion (Disappeared)

7/4/2020 Equifax (Disappeared)
7/13/2020 Experian (Disappeared)
7/28/2020 Equifax
8/14/2020 Experian
9/9/2020 TransUnion

Ten times in five months. But when I look at my current reports, I can only see three of those -- one per CRA. Strikes me as inconsistent with the principle of telling consumers about inquiries.

Re: SPs disappearing from reports

OmarGB9 — Fri, 25 Sep 2020 06:24:42 GMT

Are those coded as AR though?

Re: SPs disappearing from reports

Curious_George2 — Fri, 25 Sep 2020 06:34:50 GMT

@OmarGB9 wrote:
Are those coded as AR though?

TU: Yes.

EQ: Yes.

EX: SPs aren't displayed with type codes, so there's no way to tell.

Re: SPs disappearing from reports

OmarGB9 — Fri, 25 Sep 2020 06:42:52 GMT

@Curious_George2 wrote:
@OmarGB9 wrote:
Are those coded as AR though?
TU: Yes.
EQ: Yes.
EX: SPs aren't displayed with type codes, so there's no way to tell.

I got nothing then. I've honestly given up trying to figure out Cap One's CLI process. There seems to be no rhyme or reason. Similar to Discover.

I'll defer to someone else that may have more insight on Cap One.

Re: SPs disappearing from reports

Ficoproblems247 — Fri, 25 Sep 2020 12:25:31 GMT

@Curious_George2 wrote:
Apology accepted. Glad we're back on topic...

I had read the same thing about the frequency of CapOne's updates, but it turns out the conventional wisdom is not true, at least in my case. Here's a list of the times (that I know of) they have SP'ed me since April 1:

4/9/2020 TransUnion (Disappeared)
4/13/2020 Experian (Disappeared)
5/9/2020 TransUnion (Disappeared)
5/15/2020 Experian (Disappeared)
6/9/2020 TransUnion (Disappeared)
7/4/2020 Equifax (Disappeared)
7/13/2020 Experian (Disappeared)
7/28/2020 Equifax
8/14/2020 Experian
9/9/2020 TransUnion

Ten times in five months. But when I look at my current reports, I can only see three of those -- one per CRA. Strikes me as inconsistent with the principle of telling consumers about inquiries.

Here is another thought: Have you tried their prequalify site for giggles or any other reason? It shows up plain old "Capital One" when you run a prequalification. Also, Auto Navigator shows up just as just "Capital One," or "Capital One N A." They may have run another promotional SP on you too, which makes it hard to tell the difference. When they did their last SP AR on me it was the same date, all three bureaus, and showed up as it's own little section separate from the other SPs from them. I think also this is very much a YMMV thing on different people's profiles too which makes it hard to collaborate and find some rhyme or reason to the madness lol. Don't beat yourself up over a Cap1 CLI, too. They're hard enough to get in good times, almost unheard of to get a decent one these days. Good luck though, and I hope you are able to snag a good one.

Re: SPs disappearing from reports

calyx — Fri, 25 Sep 2020 12:30:19 GMT

Using ACR and other means, I have noticed that EX isn't keeping any of my SPs more than month old.
The others EQ/TU are still keeping them for the year.
My file is getting thicker than when I started tracking, so maybe it's just a method to keeping my file smaller, as Saeren said. I did give up tracking SPs, because it's more infrequent (though I am keeping an eye on my EX because I wonder if SDFCU will grant me an auto-CLI since I use the heck out of that card).

Re: SPs disappearing from reports

Curious_George2 — Fri, 25 Sep 2020 16:49:42 GMT

@Ficoproblems247 wrote:
Here is another thought: Have you tried their prequalify site for giggles or any other reason? It shows up plain old "Capital One" when you run a prequalification. Also, Auto Navigator shows up just as just "Capital One," or "Capital One N A." They may have run another promotional SP on you too, which makes it hard to tell the difference. When they did their last SP AR on me it was the same date, all three bureaus, and showed up as it's own little section separate from the other SPs from them. I think also this is very much a YMMV thing on different people's profiles too which makes it hard to collaborate and find some rhyme or reason to the madness lol. Don't beat yourself up over a Cap1 CLI, too. They're hard enough to get in good times, almost unheard of to get a decent one these days. Good luck though, and I hope you are able to snag a good one.

Good thought re prequals, but nope. I haven't ever tried for a prequal on CapOne.

They're pulling my TU on the 9th of most months, EX on 14th, +/- 1 day, and EQ randomly. So I guess they have me on some kind of "watch like a hawk" program. I don't mind. My scores have been going up that whole time. I'm getting hotter every month, so they can check me out all they want!

I know they're super tough to get CLIs from. That's what make hunting them good sport! I also know that most of the CLIs they are giving these days are in the three figures. I have accepted that reality. When I want big, predictable CLIs, I hit up Amex or BofA. CapOne provides something different: the thrill of the chase!

Re: SPs disappearing from reports

Anonymous — Sun, 27 Sep 2020 07:35:16 GMT

A creditor/furnisher cannot request the deletion of a soft inquiry. I don’t know if there’s a requirement for the CRA to keep it for a certain length of time.

Re: SPs disappearing from reports

jasonbourne84 — Mon, 28 Sep 2020 18:21:37 GMT

I also notice this! I see the same thing even if I'm accessing my reports directly via EX, EQ and TU.

Essentially, I'll see mile long lists of promotional inquiries from some lenders (I'm looking at you Comenity - stop stalking me!) and even from some non-lender institutions (like CenterPoint Energy), but my active lenders' SP's seem to fall off every 1st, 2nd, or 3rd SP.

Re: SPs disappearing from reports

Anonymous — Mon, 28 Sep 2020 18:42:06 GMT

It may be a housekeeping procedure not to keep more than just the last account review inquiry from a particular lender?

Re: SPs disappearing from reports

Anonymous — Fri, 16 Oct 2020 17:17:35 GMT

@Curious_George2 wrote:
Apology accepted. Glad we're back on topic...

I had read the same thing about the frequency of CapOne's updates, but it turns out the conventional wisdom is not true, at least in my case. Here's a list of the times (that I know of) they have SP'ed me since April 1:

4/9/2020 TransUnion (Disappeared)
4/13/2020 Experian (Disappeared)
5/9/2020 TransUnion (Disappeared)
5/15/2020 Experian (Disappeared)
6/9/2020 TransUnion (Disappeared)
7/4/2020 Equifax (Disappeared)
7/13/2020 Experian (Disappeared)
7/28/2020 Equifax
8/14/2020 Experian
9/9/2020 TransUnion

Ten times in five months. But when I look at my current reports, I can only see three of those -- one per CRA. Strikes me as inconsistent with the principle of telling consumers about inquiries.

My SO had only 2 SPs from Cap One on EQ but when his util reported high one month they SP'd him 12 times in 3 weeks and I am sure they are still near daily lol probably seeing if he is paying down, IMO. None of these SPs have disappeared. They only have been SP crazy on EQ and not the other 2 bureaus....so IDK!