topic Re: Derogatory Remarks in General Credit Topics

Derogatory Remarks

joeyv1985 — Mon, 30 Nov 2020 16:18:56 GMT

All,

I saw this on the Amex Website. About a year ago I had a baddy fall off my report. Are they referencing that? I can't find it on any other website or on annualcreditreport.com. Should I be concerned? There's no sign of any derogatory remarks on my 3B Monthly reports from myFico as well.

1) Time since derogatory public record or collection is too short

The presence of a derogatory public record(such as a bankruptcy or tax lien) or collection is a powerful predictor of future payment risk. Satisfying the public record or paying off the collection will not remove the item from your credit report. It will still be considered by your FICO Score.

Re: Derogatory Remarks

Anonymous — Wed, 02 Dec 2020 04:22:45 GMT

Pull your reports from annualcreditreport.com and ensure there is no derogatory.

Re: Derogatory Remarks

joeyv1985 — Wed, 02 Dec 2020 05:09:26 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Pull your reports from annualcreditreport.com and ensure there is no derogatory.

Hey Birdman, I just pulled and reviewed them. Nothing derogatory on any of the reports.

Re: Derogatory Remarks

Anonymous — Wed, 02 Dec 2020 05:36:01 GMT

@joeyv1985 wrote:
All,

I saw this on the Amex Website. About a year ago I had a baddy fall off my report. Are they referencing that? I can't find it on any other website or on annualcreditreport.com. Should I be concerned? There's no sign of any derogatory remarks on my 3B Monthly reports from myFico as well.
1) Time since derogatory public record or collection is too short

The presence of a derogatory public record(such as a bankruptcy or tax lien) or collection is a powerful predictor of future payment risk. Satisfying the public record or paying off the collection will not remove the item from your credit report. It will still be considered by your FICO Score.

@Remedios, do you think there's a chance this is related to what you said about Amex?

"Right now Amex is pulling Clarity in addition to EX, looking for the bodies when it comes to borderline applicants."

It sure looks like Amex is seeing something that isn't showing at the 3 bureaus.

@joeyv1985: Is there any mention of a different bureau being used for that? They are required to provide the name at least.

I would think Clarity is under the same FCRA rules, and that it doesn't change the length of time derogatories are on someone's file.

There is also this, if Amex even used it: https://www.clarityservices.com/support/file-disclosure/

Re: Derogatory Remarks

Remedios — Wed, 02 Dec 2020 05:39:43 GMT

I don't think so. Amex lists Clarity as a source when involved in denial.

@joeyv1985 when did you see that? Is it in Amex app under fico score or were you denied and that was listed as a reason?

Re: Derogatory Remarks

joeyv1985 — Wed, 02 Dec 2020 05:52:52 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@joeyv1985 wrote:
All,

I saw this on the Amex Website. About a year ago I had a baddy fall off my report. Are they referencing that? I can't find it on any other website or on annualcreditreport.com. Should I be concerned? There's no sign of any derogatory remarks on my 3B Monthly reports from myFico as well.
1) Time since derogatory public record or collection is too short

The presence of a derogatory public record(such as a bankruptcy or tax lien) or collection is a powerful predictor of future payment risk. Satisfying the public record or paying off the collection will not remove the item from your credit report. It will still be considered by your FICO Score.
@Remedios, do you think there's a chance this is related to what you said about Amex?
"Right now Amex is pulling Clarity in addition to EX, looking for the bodies when it comes to borderline applicants."

It sure looks like Amex is seeing something that isn't showing at the 3 bureaus.

@joeyv1985: Is there any mention of a different bureau being used for that? They are required to provide the name at least.

I would think Clarity is under the same FCRA rules, and that it doesn't change the length of time derogatories are on someone's file.
There is also this, if Amex even used it: https://www.clarityservices.com/support/file-disclosure/

Hello Cassie, Experian was the only bureau that was mentioned.

Re: Derogatory Remarks

joeyv1985 — Wed, 02 Dec 2020 05:54:57 GMT

@Remedios wrote:
I don't think so. Amex lists Clarity as a source when involved in denial.

@joeyv1985 when did you see that? Is it in Amex app under fico score or were you denied and that was listed as a reason?

Hello Remedios, I saw it in the Amex App under Fico Score. I was approved for the Amex Platinum(Personal) on Saturday and I got the card today. It's a beauty if I may say so myself.

Re: Derogatory Remarks

Anonymous — Wed, 02 Dec 2020 06:03:59 GMT

I would call American Express and ask what they’re seeing then.

Re: Derogatory Remarks

joeyv1985 — Wed, 02 Dec 2020 06:30:54 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I would call American Express and ask what they’re seeing then.

That's what I will do then

Re: Derogatory Remarks

RobertEG — Wed, 02 Dec 2020 18:02:10 GMT

This appears to be a comment that is being made by the creditor when you view their website.

Such comments/remarks are not part of your credit file/report produced by the CRA, and thus are only internal to that creditor.

If someone orders your credit report from the CRA, it wont show, as it is not part of your credit file.

They apparently have some record of a public record item of information or a collection that is separate from your credit report, and you would need to contact the creditor to resolve an problems with their internal record keeping.

In summary, credit report exclusion of adverse information from your credit report, as defined under FCRA 605(a), is imposed on the CRAs, and is a prohibition against the CRA including the adverse item in any credit report that they provide to others after expiration of the exclusion period, which is normally 7 years. It is not imposed on creditors in their internal account records.

Call the creditor with your concerns......

Re: Derogatory Remarks

joeyv1985 — Wed, 02 Dec 2020 18:07:42 GMT

@RobertEG wrote:
This appears to be a comment that is being made by the creditor when you view their website.

Such comments/remarks are not part of your credit file/report produced by the CRA, and thus are only internal to that creditor.
If someone orders your credit report from the CRA, it wont show, as it is not part of your credit file.
They apparently have some record of a public record item of information or a collection that is separate from your credit report, and you would need to contact the creditor to resolve an problems with their internal record keeping.

In summary, credit report exclusion of adverse information from your credit report, as defined under FCRA 605(a), is imposed on the CRAs, and is a prohibition against the CRA including the adverse item in any credit report that they provide to others after expiration of the exclusion period, which is normally 7 years. It is not imposed on creditors in their internal account records.

Call the creditor with your concerns......

Thanks for Robert

Re: Derogatory Remarks

Anonymous — Wed, 02 Dec 2020 18:59:32 GMT

@RobertEG wrote:
This appears to be a comment that is being made by the creditor when you view their website.

@RobertEG: Do you think AMEX (creditor in this case) is just borrowing the standard FICO reason statement for explaining their own internal assessment? 'Internal assessment' certainly seems to be the case here, since Joey already pulled all reports from annualcreditreport.com and it didn't show anything.

There must be a lot of databases out there by now that have been recording a person's entire credit history from the moment the file was created, for many, many purposes other than credit risk analysis.

It's exactly the same wording that I found in FICO documents covering EX/TU/EQ 8 reason statements, and a full 'master list' of statements that they published.

On EX 8, for example, it's code 20: (explanatory text was in the same document)

Time since derogatory public record or collection is too short

The recency of a derogatory public record (such as a bankruptcy or tax lien) or collection is a powerful predictor of future payment risk. Satisfying the public record or paying off the collection will not remove the item from your credit report. It will still be considered by your FICO® Score. As this item ages, its impact on your FICO® Score will gradually decrease. Most public records and collections stay on your report for no more than 7 years – though bankruptcies may remain for up to 10 years.

Re: Derogatory Remarks

joeyv1985 — Wed, 02 Dec 2020 19:58:32 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@RobertEG wrote:
This appears to be a comment that is being made by the creditor when you view their website.
@RobertEG: Do you think AMEX (creditor in this case) is just borrowing the standard FICO reason statement for explaining their own internal assessment? 'Internal assessment' certainly seems to be the case here, since Joey already pulled all reports from annualcreditreport.com and it didn't show anything.

There must be a lot of databases out there by now that have been recording a person's entire credit history from the moment the file was created, for many, many purposes other than credit risk analysis.

It's exactly the same wording that I found in FICO documents covering EX/TU/EQ 8 reason statements, and a full 'master list' of statements that they published.

On EX 8, for example, it's code 20: (explanatory text was in the same document)
20
Time since derogatory public record or collection is too short
The recency of a derogatory public record (such as a bankruptcy or tax lien) or collection is a powerful predictor of future payment risk. Satisfying the public record or paying off the collection will not remove the item from your credit report. It will still be considered by your FICO® Score. As this item ages, its impact on your FICO® Score will gradually decrease. Most public records and collections stay on your report for no more than 7 years – though bankruptcies may remain for up to 10 years.

Thanks Cassie. The thing is, my baddy's all fell off a year ago. Could it be I have to wait another 3 years?

Re: Derogatory Remarks

Anonymous — Wed, 02 Dec 2020 22:13:05 GMT

@joeyv1985 What were the baddies? Was it bankruptcy? was it past derogatories with American Express?

Re: Derogatory Remarks

Anonymous — Wed, 02 Dec 2020 22:13:11 GMT

@joeyv1985 wrote:
Thanks Cassie. The thing is, my baddy's all fell off a year ago. Could it be I have to wait another 3 years?

I don't see why you would. None of this makes sense. All I can think of is some sort of consumer tracking database that has that recorded somewhere. Like LexisNexis or some other data aggregator that starts recording us from birth.

Re: Derogatory Remarks

joeyv1985 — Wed, 02 Dec 2020 22:19:15 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@joeyv1985 What were the baddies? Was it bankruptcy? was it past derogatories with American Express?

Hello Birdman,

No bankruptcies, just late payments/charge offs. In fact, one was Wells Fargo and I'm still paying that. I send monthly payments to a law firm. Amex closed my account back in 2007/2008 because I was deemed a risk. However, I paid what I owed them in full. Again it was a very trying time for me, but as far as I'm concerned, I'm back from the abyss.

Re: Derogatory Remarks

joeyv1985 — Wed, 02 Dec 2020 22:22:10 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@joeyv1985 wrote:
Thanks Cassie. The thing is, my baddy's all fell off a year ago. Could it be I have to wait another 3 years?
I don't see why you would. None of this makes sense. All I can think of is some sort of consumer tracking database that has that recorded somewhere. Like LexisNexis or some other data aggregator that starts recording us from birth.

I do see LexisNexis on my reports though. That could be it: Officially not on the scorecard, but stored somewhere in their database.

Re: Derogatory Remarks

RobertEG — Wed, 02 Dec 2020 23:31:24 GMT

Yes, it is quite possible that the creditor first obtained that information/remark from a prior credit report they had permissible purpose to receive, and then entered that information into their own internal records. The use of the same terminology suggests that is likely the case.

While the CRA must exclude such negative information once the statutory exclusion period has expired, nothing requires that a creditor or business who has received that information must exclude it from their own business records. They just will not continue to see that remark in future credit reports they might receive after it becomes excluded by the CRA.

The fact that the statute removes the ability of CRAs from continuing to include adverse information in their credit reports after a given period of time could be basis for arguing with a creditor that they do the same in their decision making, nothing in the statute or regulations bars them from continuing to retain and use that dated information as part of their credit decision making.

That is an issue that must be taken up with your creditor.

Re: Derogatory Remarks

joeyv1985 — Wed, 02 Dec 2020 23:33:49 GMT

@RobertEG wrote:
Yes, it is quite possible that the creditor first obtained that information/remark from a prior credit report they had permissible purpose to receive, and then entered that information into their own internal records. The use of the same terminology suggests that is likely the case.

While the CRA must exclude such negative information once the statutory exclusion period has expired, nothing requires that a creditor or business who has received that information must exclude it from their own business records. They just will not continue to see that remark in future credit reports they might receive after it becomes excluded by the CRA.

The fact that the statute removes the ability of CRAs from continuing to include adverse information in their credit reports after a given period of time could be basis for arguing with a creditor that they do the same in their decision making, nothing in the statute or regulations bars them from continuing to retain and use that dated information as part of their credit decision making.
That is an issue that must be taken up with your creditor.

Interesting. Thank you, Robert. It all makes sense now.

Re: Derogatory Remarks

Anonymous — Thu, 03 Dec 2020 00:43:36 GMT

@joeyv1985 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@joeyv1985 What were the baddies? Was it bankruptcy? was it past derogatories with American Express?
Hello Birdman,

No bankruptcies, just late payments/charge offs. In fact, one was Wells Fargo and I'm still paying that. I send monthly payments to a law firm. Amex closed my account back in 2007/2008 because I was deemed a risk. However, I paid what I owed them in full. Again it was a very trying time for me, but as far as I'm concerned, I'm back from the abyss.

@joeyv1985 AMEX has a long memory, so they probably have records of what happened previously and as stated, they no doubt have pulled LEXIS-NEXIS.

they are famous for that. Out of all the lenders I have/had only American Express and one out-of-state credit union have pulled LEXIS-NEXIS on me.