topic Re: The Amex F/R has struck again in General Credit Topics

The Amex F/R has struck again

Anonymous — Thu, 02 Aug 2007 18:52:19 GMT

Checked my accounts today to see big red bars and a message that my accounts are suspended. I called them and they told me because my accounts are relatively new, they need to verify income. I said I would have had no problem if they asked for that upfront rather than months afterwards. She offered to "expedite" my review and said it would be done in a few days.

I told her that I'm not sending them anything and to cancel my accounts at my request. I will not be doing business with them again.

Re: The Amex F/R has struck again

fused — Thu, 02 Aug 2007 19:02:40 GMT

KDM wrote:
Checked my accounts today to see big red bars and a message that my accounts are suspended. I called them and they told me because my accounts are relatively new, they need to verify income. I said I would have had no problem if they asked for that upfront rather than months afterwards. She offered to "expedite" my review and said it would be done in a few days.

I told her that I'm not sending them anything and to cancel my accounts at my request. I will not be doing business with them again.

Good for you my friend! Personally, I would do the same.

Re: The Amex F/R has struck again

sl — Thu, 02 Aug 2007 19:06:35 GMT

KDM,

I am sorry it happened to you. But glad you held your ground with them.

I introduced hubby to this board a few nights ago and show him the horror stories with AMEX and F/R. He currently has the AMEX Plat. card and giving serious consideration to closing it. He has applied for two cards this week and we shall see what happens. I think he is afraid to use it without having a backup cc.

Re: The Amex F/R has struck again

Anonymous — Thu, 02 Aug 2007 19:15:36 GMT

That's the problem. The card is unreliable. I asked her what is to stop them from doing this again and again?

Count me out.

BTW, I was asked for paystubs, not the IRS form.

Re: The Amex F/R has struck again

sl — Thu, 02 Aug 2007 19:18:37 GMT

I wonder if AMEX is burining the wires out at the IRS with all their requests for tax returns.

Re: The Amex F/R has struck again

Tuscani — Thu, 02 Aug 2007 20:56:14 GMT

Good for you. I would do the exact same thing!

Re: The Amex F/R has struck again

Anonymous — Thu, 02 Aug 2007 21:45:24 GMT

If they're now offering to "expedite" (which they weren't before), that could be a sign there's been a backlash against the FR process and they're trying to appease disgruntled customers.

If I had a credit line $20,000 or less and they FRed me, I'd cancel too.

Re: The Amex F/R has struck again

Anonymous — Thu, 02 Aug 2007 21:52:15 GMT

There's just too many other banks and companies who treat their customers with a moticum of respect, to accept this and comply.

Re: The Amex F/R has struck again

Anonymous — Thu, 02 Aug 2007 21:53:16 GMT

She told me she'd expedite it and have it resolved in three days.

Re: The Amex F/R has struck again

Anonymous — Thu, 02 Aug 2007 22:10:44 GMT

Cancelling an AMEX card, especially one that shows a historically great payment history and high credit limit (for credit cards), coupled with a great utilization %, is not in anyones best interest. My personal opinion, if they FR you and you are a long time customer with some leverage, then ask them to at least waive the membership fee for that year, you never know until you try. IMO, cancelling GOOD long standing accounts only hurts you in the end.

Message Edited by centurionholder on 08-02-2007 03:10 PM

Re: The Amex F/R has struck again

Anonymous — Fri, 03 Aug 2007 01:13:38 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

Cancelling an AMEX card, especially one that shows a historically great payment history and high credit limit (for credit cards), coupled with a great utilization %, is not in anyones best interest. My personal opinion, if they FR you and you are a long time customer with some leverage, then ask them to at least waive the membership fee for that year, you never know until you try. IMO, cancelling GOOD long standing accounts only hurts you in the end.

True, but so do busybodies who burn up my time and energy prying into me for data that really isn't any of their business to begin with.

Asking for my 1040 is nosy. Wanting pay stubs is downright rude and invasive.

Re: The Amex F/R has struck again

Anonymous — Fri, 03 Aug 2007 01:50:23 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

@Anonymous wrote:
Cancelling an AMEX card, especially one that shows a historically great payment history and high credit limit (for credit cards), coupled with a great utilization %, is not in anyones best interest. My personal opinion, if they FR you and you are a long time customer with some leverage, then ask them to at least waive the membership fee for that year, you never know until you try. IMO, cancelling GOOD long standing accounts only hurts you in the end.

True, but so do busybodies who burn up my time and energy prying into me for data that really isn't any of their business to begin with.

Asking for my 1040 is nosy. Wanting pay stubs is downright rude and invasive.

If you are a longtime customer I agree with you. If you are a new customer then I don't. Why shouldn't a company be able to request validation of the financial information you supplied to obtain a substantial amount of credit with them? If you have been a loyal customer of 5, 10, 20 years then yes I would be VERY upset and probably be sending letters all the way up to the CEO.

Just look at it like this,it's not exactly like it's Crap 1 asking for your verification.....

Re: The Amex F/R has struck again

Anonymous — Fri, 03 Aug 2007 02:05:11 GMT

Im with TNWM. Crap 1 or Amex,doesn't matter they are both CCC. It is an invasion to ask for IRS records. they check your CRA file and know what kind of risk that you are before they accept you!

Re: The Amex F/R has struck again

Anonymous — Fri, 03 Aug 2007 02:11:59 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Im with TNWM. Crap 1 or Amex,doesn't matter they are both CCC. It is an invasion to ask for IRS records. they check your CRA file and know what kind of risk that you are before they accept you!

True but people who overstate income can have an 800 score as easily as somebody who doesn't. You asked for the credit card by applying for it right? Again, assuming you are a new customer to them not an established one....

Re: The Amex F/R has struck again

Anonymous — Fri, 03 Aug 2007 03:01:02 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
True but people who overstate income can have an 800 score as easily as somebody who doesn't. You asked for the credit card by applying for it right? Again, assuming you are a new customer to them not an established one....

A high level of income does not ensure that a person will pay on time or is an otherwise good credit risk. If Amex requires proof of income as part of THEIR approval process, it should be requested at the time of application. If Amex requires periodic updated proof of income, that requirement should be disclosed on the application.

I am all in favor of every business making their own rules. But if a business decides to impose rules that are significantly different than their competitors, they should disclose those rules beforehand, not AFTER a customer takes the time to apply, incurs the inquiry and new account dings to their FICO score, and possibly decides to carry a balance.

I have no sympathy for someone who was the victim of an F/R and then repeats the same behavior that triggered the F/R. But the vast majority of F/R victims reporting in these forums are consumers exhibiting normal behavior, who did NOT overstate their income, who were caught by surprise, and who were inconvenienced without warning and, in most cases, without good reason.

Message Edited by Revike on 08-02-2007 08:01 PM

Re: The Amex F/R has struck again

Anonymous — Fri, 03 Aug 2007 03:14:31 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
A high level of income does not ensure that a person will pay on time or is an otherwise good credit risk. If Amex requires proof of income as part of THEIR approval process, it should be requested at the time of application. If Amex requires periodic updated proof of income, that requirement should be disclosed on the application.

I am all in favor of every business making their own rules. But if a business decides to impose rules that are significantly different than their competitors, they should disclose those rules beforehand, not AFTER a customer takes the time to apply, incurs the inquiry and new account dings to their FICO score, and possibly decides to carry a balance.

I have no sympathy for someone who was the victim of an F/R and then repeats the same behavior that triggered the F/R. But the vast majority of F/R victims reporting in these forums are consumers exhibiting normal behavior, who did NOT overstate their income, who were caught by surprise, and who were inconvenienced without warning and, in most cases, without good reason.

Message Edited by Revike on 08-02-2007 08:01 PM

Well if somebody who really has a 25k income and a high FICO score applies and gets a card or cards with say 15k worth of credit based on claiming an income of 70k why shouldn't a company be able to ask for proof? Would it be better if they requested it during the application process, probably but it would be a little difficult in this instant gratification/approval world we live in wouldn't it?

I do absolutely agree with the carrying a balance and opening an account part of your post but if you are honest during your application you won't be hit with a higher interest rate or lowered credit limit. Worst case is a couple days without the use of your card.

It's true many people here did nothing blatant to raise a flag but many did open multiple accounts and many of those asked for a CLI during activiation. That is something that could make a company wonder why. AMEX did not do multiple pulls on their reports when they applied for say a Delta card and HH or a starwood. It was only one (as far as I've read). They also didn't do another pull to evaluate their CLI request.

I now expect to have the F/R hit me sooner or later. BUT I didn't get the card with the idea to go out and request a CLI or multiple accounts with them. I also didn't plan to max out the card and carry a balance or do a BT to the card. For me and I'm assuming alot of people who applied it was my 1st "prime" card. To me it's like a graduation from Crap 1 or HSBC or First Premier to the real world of credit. Maybe that's why the F/R doesn't bother me now.

Re: The Amex F/R has struck again

Anonymous — Fri, 03 Aug 2007 11:29:38 GMT

I don't think this FR thing is right for new or old customers, but I would still give them what they ask for. It's not like I lied on my app or anything... I know it's a waste of time to look for the info, but still... Amex is a great card to have. So I'd say it's worth spending a couple of minutes looking for the info they need.

Re: The Amex F/R has struck again

Anonymous — Fri, 03 Aug 2007 11:49:32 GMT

bamf70 wrote:

I now expect to have the F/R hit me sooner or later. BUT I didn't get the card with the idea to go out and request a CLI or multiple accounts with them. I also didn't plan to max out the card and carry a balance or do a BT to the card. For me and I'm assuming alot of people who applied it was my 1st "prime" card. To me it's like a graduation from Crap 1 or HSBC or First Premier to the real world of credit. Maybe that's why the F/R doesn't bother me now.

I am in 100% agreement with this. I have exactly the same experience and opinion. I see no problem with a company following up on the people who they are agreeing to LEND money to.

If you're an established card holder, I get why you would be upset if you were F/R'd and if you had a good payment history I see no reason why you should be if you haven't done anything so far out the realm of your normal behavior that it would raise any flags.

But like the others here who have already said it, I don't see an issue with F/R'ing a new applicant. Yes it is their business as to what kind of ability you have to repay them the money they are lending you. Should they ask for it upfront, yeah I agree with that, but to claim that it's an invasion of privacy and all of this is ridiculous, their letting you use their money and you're usually receiving rewards or top notch service in return, I think it's well within reason to be sure that you are somebody they feel comfortable lending to. And if that requires a little further research then by all means... As always though, as many have pointed out, you don't have to let them do this... Just say no, move on and don't look back.

With all of the debt that the average consumer carries, and with the many ways that you can get yourself in trouble nowadays, I wouldn't be surprised if other companies begin implementing the same practices. Maybe it will actually help with the atrocious amount of debt that the average person gets his or herself into.

Fire away.

Message Edited by Jamesus81801 on 08-03-2007 04:49 AM

Re: The Amex F/R has struck again

Anonymous — Fri, 03 Aug 2007 15:03:15 GMT

Yeah, I agree. Canceling seasoned Amex cards and new Amex cards that are the best an applicant can get just seems like a bad idea. I know some people seem to have experienced real inconvenience, but haven't others complained about F/Rs that were essentially resolved in a few days?

Contrary to the rumor someone reported elsewhere, I seriously seriously doubt I'll ever be F/R'd by them. But if I were, I'd give them what they wanted and move on with my life. It's not worth it. Just as there shouldn't be shamed tied up in not being able to pay your bills, there shouldn't be pride tied up in handling what's nothing more than a corporate transaction.

Amex is by far the best credit card company I've encountered. I messed up with them, got my act together and now have two new cards with them. At all times, I was never treated with anything but courtesy, rationality, and good knowledgeable customer service. It's been worth it, IMO.

Re: The Amex F/R has struck again

Anonymous — Fri, 03 Aug 2007 19:44:23 GMT

Happy days wrote:

Im with TNWM. Crap 1 or Amex,doesn't matter they are both CCC. It is an invasion to ask for IRS records. they check your CRA file and know what kind of risk that you are before they accept you!

______________________________________________________________________

I don't think so,,,they know what kind of payment history you have, but CRAs don't tell them about your financial history. If you make 40 grand a year and pay all of your bills on time, it means cr@p if your bills total up to 35 grand. Get the point, they not only want to see how you pay, they want to make sure there is a safe Dollar buffer zone set aside because they want to make sure they get their money back. In other words, they want to make sure that your new charges will not incur a hardship on you, therfore, hindering your ability to pay.

Message Edited by centurionholder on 08-03-2007 12:44 PM