topic Re: Vantage 3.0 Score in General Credit Topics

Vantage 3.0 Score

MileHigh96 — Fri, 20 Aug 2021 17:15:01 GMT

What is the point of this score if no financial institution uses it? It's kind of decptive in a way because before I found this forum and read about it, I thought it was an actual FICO score. And places like CK, as helpful as they are with many things, especially for a free service, really don't go out of their was to tell you that those scores they give you are basically worthless. I mean you can't even guess what your real FICO score is by looking at the BVantage score, the Vantage scores are SO MUCH higher than the actual FICO scores.

So what is the point of even offering people these scores? I'm guessing that most people think these are their actual credit scores. I sure thought they were before I came here.

Re: Vantage 3.0 Score

Anonymous — Fri, 20 Aug 2021 18:43:43 GMT

@MileHigh96 wrote:
What is the point of this score if no financial institution uses it? It's kind of decptive in a way because before I found this forum and read about it, I thought it was an actual FICO score. And places like CK, as helpful as they are with many things, especially for a free service, really don't go out of their was to tell you that those scores they give you are basically worthless. I mean you can't even guess what your real FICO score is by looking at the BVantage score, the Vantage scores are SO MUCH higher than the actual FICO scores.

So what is the point of even offering people these scores? I'm guessing that most people think these are their actual credit scores. I sure thought they were before I came here.

They are an actual credit score...Just not a helpful one. But I fully believe most people have no clue the difference between CK's VantageScore 3.0, VantageScore4.0 (which Synchrony actually uses for account management), and the 28 variations of FICO. I was talking to a mortgage loan officer who quickly disclosed that he had no idea why CK scores were often so far off from the scores they actually pull. He also denied that I had the ability to access our mortgage scores without them pulling credit... Needless to say, I did not choose him as a loan officer to work with.

My VS3 is around 650, and has been for the past year. My F8 scores have ranged from mid-600s to 763 when they were at their highest. Currently F8 is 721, F2 is 724, and VS3 still shows 651.

The VantageScores are offered because they are cheap. I am not sure how much FICO charges, but they certainly make money when lenders pull credit, and I am fairly certain that applies to soft pulls which are done when you view your credit scores through a CMS. I have no clue what the pricing delta is between VS and FICO but it is obviously enough for most places that offer free scores to choose VS.

Re: Vantage 3.0 Score

Horseshoez — Fri, 20 Aug 2021 19:23:08 GMT

@MileHigh96 wrote:
What is the point of this score if no financial institution uses it? It's kind of decptive in a way because before I found this forum and read about it, I thought it was an actual FICO score. And places like CK, as helpful as they are with many things, especially for a free service, really don't go out of their was to tell you that those scores they give you are basically worthless. I mean you can't even guess what your real FICO score is by looking at the BVantage score, the Vantage scores are SO MUCH higher than the actual FICO scores.

So what is the point of even offering people these scores? I'm guessing that most people think these are their actual credit scores. I sure thought they were before I came here.

A few comments:

I'm not sure I've ever noticed my Vantage scores being "so much higher" than my FICO scores; true they are almost always higher than my FICO 8s, but beyond that, my Vantage 3.0 are almost always lower than both my FICO 5/4/2 and FICO 9 scores.
My thinking regarding why Vantage is offered is one of those, "If you build it, they will come" scenarios; I have absolutely no evidence to support this thought, just my gut, but unless and until there is a viable alternative to FICO, then Fair Issac has a monopoly on credit scores.
I've heard rumors the rarely used Vantage 4.0 scores are supposedly more useful, but even then, barely more useful (and totally unavailable to us mere mortals).

Re: Vantage 3.0 Score

CH-7-Mission-Accomplished — Fri, 20 Aug 2021 22:05:38 GMT

@Horseshoez wrote:
@MileHigh96 wrote:
What is the point of this score if no financial institution uses it? It's kind of decptive in a way because before I found this forum and read about it, I thought it was an actual FICO score. And places like CK, as helpful as they are with many things, especially for a free service, really don't go out of their was to tell you that those scores they give you are basically worthless. I mean you can't even guess what your real FICO score is by looking at the BVantage score, the Vantage scores are SO MUCH higher than the actual FICO scores.

So what is the point of even offering people these scores? I'm guessing that most people think these are their actual credit scores. I sure thought they were before I came here.
A few comments:
I'm not sure I've ever noticed my Vantage scores being "so much higher" than my FICO scores; true they are almost always higher than my FICO 8s, but beyond that, my Vantage 3.0 are almost always lower than both my FICO 5/4/2 and FICO 9 scores.
My thinking regarding why Vantage is offered is one of those, "If you build it, they will come" scenarios; I have absolutely no evidence to support this thought, just my gut, but unless and until there is a viable alternative to FICO, then Fair Issac has a monopoly on credit scores.
I've heard rumors the rarely used Vantage 4.0 scores are supposedly more useful, but even then, barely more useful (and totally unavailable to us mere mortals).

I have figured out that Alliant CU gives the Transunion Vantage 4 score even though they list it as Vantage 3.0 underneath the data. They update Vantage scores quarterly and looking back, my Vantage scores have been over 800 for a long time, currently at 810. My Vantage 3.0 scores are about 760 and have never been higher. FICO 8s are mid 770s and FICO 9's are 800-841. Mortgage scores are 724, 725 & ~~841~~ 741. Also the reason codes on Alliant for my Vantage score make two comments about lack of a mortgage loan or recent real estate loan history and lists my BK as the #3 issue. Even with the two dings for lack of a mortgage loan, these Vantage 4.0 scores are way higher than Vantage 3.0 -- and just as useless.

Credit Score Factors affecting your credit score, in order of importance ?

810 June 2021

1. Lack of real estate secured loan information

2. Too high proportion of balances from bankcards (I only had one card reporting $5)

3. Bankruptcy

4. Lack of first mortgage account information

Re: Vantage 3.0 Score

Horseshoez — Fri, 20 Aug 2021 20:01:44 GMT

@CH-7-Mission-Accomplished, yeah, the whole bankruptcy thing is a challenge, my wife filed for a Chapter 7 back in 2014 to deal with an SBA loan when her small business failed, and I filed for a Chapter 13 a year later to deal with the significant debt my (now former) business partner ran up in my name (he had 3 credit cards and two business LOCs in my name which I knew nothing about).

Early next year my Chapter 13 falls off, hoping to buy a new house sometime in 2022 or 2023.

Re: Vantage 3.0 Score

FireMedic1 — Fri, 20 Aug 2021 21:17:33 GMT

Vantage is a lot tougher in some areas of credit than FICO. And vice versa. Just think if Vantage was the only score for the majority.

Re: Vantage 3.0 Score

CH-7-Mission-Accomplished — Sun, 22 Aug 2021 20:48:27 GMT

@FireMedic1 wrote:
Vantage is a lot tougher in some areas of credit than FICO. And vice versa. Just think if Vantage was the only score for the majority.

Thanks for posting these graphics. I've never seen the Vantage Score breakdown.

Re: Vantage 3.0 Score

Taurus22 — Sat, 21 Aug 2021 01:25:33 GMT

I've also never seen my Vantage scores higher than my FICO8 scores. Mine are always distinctly lower....and since more weight is given to credit age with V3.0, I would imagine that's the reason for me....

Current: Vantage 3.0 (via CK)

EQ - 775

TU - 775

Current: FICO8

EQ - 809

TU - 807

Re: Vantage 3.0 Score

CH-7-Mission-Accomplished — Sat, 21 Aug 2021 02:09:59 GMT

@Taurus22 wrote:
I've also never seen my Vantage scores higher than my FICO8 scores. Mine are always distinctly lower....and since more weight is given to credit age with V3.0, I would imagine that's the reason for me....

Current: Vantage 3.0 (via CK)
EQ - 775
TU - 775
Current: FICO8
EQ - 809
TU - 807

Dumb question for the board. I have never seen an EX Vantage score. Does it exist? Can it be found anywhere?

Re: Vantage 3.0 Score

Taurus22 — Sat, 21 Aug 2021 02:21:19 GMT

@CH-7-Mission-Accomplished wrote:
@Taurus22 wrote:
I've also never seen my Vantage scores higher than my FICO8 scores. Mine are always distinctly lower....and since more weight is given to credit age with V3.0, I would imagine that's the reason for me....

Current: Vantage 3.0 (via CK)
EQ - 775
TU - 775
Current: FICO8
EQ - 809
TU - 807
Dumb question for the board. I have never seen an EX Vantage score. Does it exist? Can it be found anywhere?

*shrug* I'll let someone else give you a definitive answer. I've personally never seen mine. I think I remember someone saying Chase might provide an V3.0 EX score, but I don't have any Chase accounts to confirm.

Re: Vantage 3.0 Score

KingPredator — Sat, 21 Aug 2021 16:50:56 GMT

I have a chase checking account and can confirm they do have VS 3.0.

Re: Vantage 3.0 Score

Horseshoez — Sun, 22 Aug 2021 20:49:42 GMT

@Taurus22 wrote:
@CH-7-Mission-Accomplished wrote:
@Taurus22 wrote:
I've also never seen my Vantage scores higher than my FICO8 scores. Mine are always distinctly lower....and since more weight is given to credit age with V3.0, I would imagine that's the reason for me....

Current: Vantage 3.0 (via CK)
EQ - 775
TU - 775
Current: FICO8
EQ - 809
TU - 807
Dumb question for the board. I have never seen an EX Vantage score. Does it exist? Can it be found anywhere?
*shrug* I'll let someone else give you a definitive answer. I've personally never seen mine. I think I remember someone saying Chase might provide an V3.0 EX score, but I don't have any Chase accounts to confirm.

One does not need to have an account with Chase to be able to access the Experian Vantage 3.0 score they provide, just sign up for "Chase Credit Journey". I am blacklisted by Chase and will be for a long time so clearly I do not have any Chase accounts; regardless, I signed up for the service and this is what I see when I log into Chase:

Re: Vantage 3.0 Score

MileHigh96 — Wed, 25 Aug 2021 05:53:00 GMT

@Horseshoez wrote:
@MileHigh96 wrote:
What is the point of this score if no financial institution uses it? It's kind of decptive in a way because before I found this forum and read about it, I thought it was an actual FICO score. And places like CK, as helpful as they are with many things, especially for a free service, really don't go out of their was to tell you that those scores they give you are basically worthless. I mean you can't even guess what your real FICO score is by looking at the BVantage score, the Vantage scores are SO MUCH higher than the actual FICO scores.

So what is the point of even offering people these scores? I'm guessing that most people think these are their actual credit scores. I sure thought they were before I came here.
A few comments:
I'm not sure I've ever noticed my Vantage scores being "so much higher" than my FICO scores; true they are almost always higher than my FICO 8s, but beyond that, my Vantage 3.0 are almost always lower than both my FICO 5/4/2 and FICO 9 scores.
My thinking regarding why Vantage is offered is one of those, "If you build it, they will come" scenarios; I have absolutely no evidence to support this thought, just my gut, but unless and until there is a viable alternative to FICO, then Fair Issac has a monopoly on credit scores.
I've heard rumors the rarely used Vantage 4.0 scores are supposedly more useful, but even then, barely more useful (and totally unavailable to us mere mortals).

My scores between my FICO8 and my Vantage 3 are vastly different. My most recent FICO8 scores are in my signature and these are my Vantage 3.0 scores from today:

Re: Vantage 3.0 Score

MileHigh96 — Mon, 23 Aug 2021 12:01:07 GMT

@FireMedic1 wrote:
Vantage is a lot tougher in some areas of credit than FICO. And vice versa. Just think if Vantage was the only score for the majority.

I would be okay with that when looking at my scores 😂😂

Re: Vantage 3.0 Score

Trudy — Mon, 23 Aug 2021 17:29:46 GMT

@CH-7-Mission-Accomplished wrote:
@Taurus22 wrote:
I've also never seen my Vantage scores higher than my FICO8 scores. Mine are always distinctly lower....and since more weight is given to credit age with V3.0, I would imagine that's the reason for me....

Current: Vantage 3.0 (via CK)
EQ - 775
TU - 775
Current: FICO8
EQ - 809
TU - 807
Dumb question for the board. I have never seen an EX Vantage score. Does it exist? Can it be found anywhere?

I cancelled Credit Sesame years ago but I believed they provided a free EX V3.

Re: Vantage 3.0 Score

Anonymous — Thu, 26 Aug 2021 20:19:56 GMT

Yes, I can access my Experian Vantage 3.0 score through my chase credit card account.

Re: Vantage 3.0 Score

Anonymous — Mon, 11 Oct 2021 04:34:50 GMT

My two cents...

A loan officer at one my credit unions asked me if I knew what my credit score was when inquiring about a home equity loan. I asked her what score they pulled cause my FICO scores were finally above getting close to 730 and 740 and I was kind of excited to see what rate I could qualify for. She said Transunion Vantage Score 4.0. Me: "Huh?" Ok wow, didn't even know there was a Vantage 4.0 out here. Now had she said V3.0, I'd have really been excited cause mine are always waaaay higher than my FICO scores.

So I came home and did a whole lot of research and tried to find out how to get a hold of my Vantage 4.0 score. Crickets. But after everything I read about the 4.0 version, I was not very hopeful because they now take consider your utilization HISTORY as opposed to your current utilization when calculating your score. I think I read that they'll be going back two years for trending data.

I recently had some pretty high utilizations. I've since gotten it down to a single cc and a current UTI of 16% but wow that V4.0 considers historical data. Ouch. So my brand new Wings Financial CU checking account offers a V4.0 score. And I was right to be apprehensive. That dang score was an even 706 — 47 points lower than my V3.0 score. Dayum!

So it's not that Vantage scores aren't used by lenders: they are. Just not as widely used as FICO 8. So since I'll be needing some sort of financing to do some major home improvements next year, I'm working frantically to get my FICO scores over 740. And you best believe, I'll be asking what score they pull before I fill out an application.

Re: Vantage 3.0 Score

Duriel — Tue, 12 Oct 2021 21:56:30 GMT

If you have an account with Synchrony, you can access your TU VS4. It seems stable unlike VS3, which for me at least, often swings 100+ points for no apparent reason.

Re: Vantage 3.0 Score

Oops_I_Did_It_Again — Thu, 14 Oct 2021 20:29:42 GMT

I have never seen an EX Vantage score. Does it exist? Can it be found anywhere?

@CH-7-Mission-Accomplished

Equifax also provides V3 formulation. Credit Sesame reports it, as does Equifax if you have an account (free? mine's free)

https://my.equifax.com/membercenter/#/login

Also, as regard usage of V3 for credit determination, I think it is used, not widely, but here and there -- specific examples:

I've seen it used by BBVA's on-line credit card pre-screen recently, but pre-screen may be not be working, at least while BBVA integrates with PNC take-over may have resulted in termination or suspension for now. It was used in combination with Fico 8 (or 9? or BC?)

I *think* I've also heard of it being used in Federal mortgage (underwriting, Freddie or Fannie?).

My V3s are better than Fico 8 scores, due to a very cruel scorecard re-assignment for oldest revolver hitting 3Y.

V3 TU 771, EQ 772, EX 771

F8 TU 747, EQ 758, EX 755

Re: Vantage 3.0 Score

Phana24 — Thu, 14 Oct 2021 22:09:24 GMT

@Taurus22 wrote:
I've also never seen my Vantage scores higher than my FICO8 scores. Mine are always distinctly lower....and since more weight is given to credit age with V3.0, I would imagine that's the reason for me....

Current: Vantage 3.0 (via CK)
EQ - 775
TU - 775
Current: FICO8
EQ - 809
TU - 807

My situation is the EXACT opposite. I've NEVER, EVER had a FICO-8 higher than my Vantage 3.0 with any CRA. What makes that very surprising is my AAoA is rather low, so theoretically, I should be in your situation.