topic Re: Light bill issue. in General Credit Topics

Light bill issue.

Anonymous — Fri, 03 Sep 2021 18:36:39 GMT

So in the last 4-months (Sept-Dec) living with my roommates at my old place back in 2020, the light bill went unpaid. The last person on the lease moved out, I was moving, and no one else that was staying there wanted to put their name on the lease for whatever reason.

Since the light bill (PSEG) was in the name of the person who was on the lease and that person left, there hasn't been a name on the light bill since. For there to be, the landlord has to come by with a new lease, but none of those remaining roommates requested it. None of the roommates there are on the original lease. The landlord didn't mind that people were coming in, as long as the rent was paid on time. So the light bill has been unpaid for a year now and is estimated to be around $4000.

I'm posting this because I plan to go back there and make that place my home, it's a great spot, and I'll have my own floor. I hope to put my name on the lease but that means I'll inherit the bill. What should I do here. Should I pay off the entire balance and request they all pay me back?

I'm also wondering how hasn't the power been shut off by now? It's a 5 bedroom for $2000, and once everyone moves out, I can potentially take the whole place.

Re: Light bill issue.

disdreamin — Sun, 05 Sep 2021 18:21:11 GMT

If it were me, I'd contact the utility company as a new renter and ask that service at the property be initiated in your name on your move-in date/first day of your lease. You should not be held responsible for back payments since that bill was not in your name. That debt is the responsibility of the tenant whose name was previously on the bill. You have nothing to do with that debt, other than (morally) owing your fair portion of it [edited to add for clarity: you owe this to the tenant whose name the bill was in, not the utility company].

Under no circumstances would I agree to pay any past-due portion of the bill to the utility company. Your responsibility to them should begin the day your lease starts.

Re: Light bill issue.

SoCalGardener — Fri, 03 Sep 2021 20:27:57 GMT

Personally, I wouldn't pay any portion of that bill, as it was not my responsibility. And I don't see how the electric company or the landlord can in any way hold you responsible for paying the arrears. It just legally and logically doesn't make sense! It's their problem that they never shut off the service, and that they let the bill go unpaid for a year.

I'm confused by something, though. I've never heard of a utility account having NO NAME on it! Okay, the original guy on the lease moved out. If he contacted the power company to tell them, at that point they either should've shut off service or insisted on getting the new responsible party's information. If he didn't contact them, how do they know he left? And why did they remove his name from the account?

I grew up in a family with many rental properties throughout the LA area, including office buildings. As I always understood it, the tenant who initiated having utilities turned on--in their name--was responsible for those utilities until he told them to shut it off, even if he moved out without telling them, and the bill kept running (until shut off for non-payment), it was his responsibility legally. I'm really baffled here because the scenario you've presented doesn't make sense to me!

Re: Light bill issue.

Anonymous — Fri, 03 Sep 2021 20:44:27 GMT

It doesn't make sense to me as well. When the guy who had his name on it moved out. He told me he had called them to let them know he was moving out. I don't know how any of it works, but he was the one who had his name on it last.

All he left was the account number for the place, so I was thinking maybe we still had a valid account number on file but a name wasn't on it. I didn't verify with him, but he made it seem like he called them, told them that he wasnt living there anymore and that's it. Didn't clarify if they removed his name or not.

Re: Light bill issue.

Anonymous — Fri, 03 Sep 2021 20:55:13 GMT

How could the bill be $4000? Unreal!

Re: Light bill issue.

Anonymous — Fri, 03 Sep 2021 21:00:20 GMT

That's the estimated amount for the last 12 months. I think it should be much lower than that, I was told that figure by the last person who lived there.

Re: Light bill issue.

SoCalGardener — Fri, 03 Sep 2021 22:35:33 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
It doesn't make sense to me as well. When the guy who had his name on it moved out. He told me he had called them to let them know he was moving out. I don't know how any of it works, but he was the one who had his name on it last.

All he left was the account number for the place, so I was thinking maybe we still had a valid account number on file but a name wasn't on it. I didn't verify with him, but he made it seem like he called them, told them that he wasnt living there anymore and that's it. Didn't clarify if they removed his name or not.

Just using my own life experience, this makes no sense. I know that when I used to rent, I was responsible for having the utilities turned on and for paying the bills; what the previous tenant did or didn't do had no effect on me. And I also know that when I would move from one house to another, the utilities had to verify that I had no past-due amounts with them before they would start service at the new address; if I did have a balance, that had to be paid BEFORE they'd start new service, AND they'd require a deposit, too. Once I moved out of a house, the bill didn't become the next tenant's responsibility--it was still mine.

And, I'm sorry, but the whole concept of an account--in this day and age? where everything is computerized?--with no name on it just doesn't make sense. I was a programmer for many years, and did tons of database programming and data processing, and I've never seen or heard of a business account with no name on it. There's more to this than you're being told, IMHO.

Re: Light bill issue.

SoCalGardener — Fri, 03 Sep 2021 22:33:36 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
How could the bill be $4000? Unreal!

Easy!!

Last year, SoCal Edison had some kind of billing glitch. Starting around June, I didn't receive any bills. Now, I've been around the block a few times, you know?! So every month I made a payment based on roughly what that month's bill was a year earlier. FINALLY, this year, I received a SIXTY-SIX PAGE bill!! I don't remember its actual balance, but it was in the thousands. The amount I needed to pay? Less than $100.

Re: Light bill issue.

disdreamin — Sun, 05 Sep 2021 18:30:46 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
How could the bill be $4000? Unreal!

For a five-bedroom home as mentioned in the original post? Very easily. That's only $300 a month. If it's all electric, I can see that easily being possible if there were tenants the entire time.

Without our solar panels, we'd be looking at ~$3k per year and we don't have anywhere near a five-bedroom home lol

Re: Light bill issue.

SoCalGardener — Sun, 05 Sep 2021 20:23:11 GMT

@disdreamin wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
How could the bill be $4000? Unreal!
For a five-bedroom home as mentioned in the original post? Very easily. That's only $300 a month. If it's all electric, I can see that easily being possible if there were tenants the entire time.

Definitely. And I've been wondering since reading the OP, where on earth do you get a 5-bedroom house that rents for only $2,000 a month?! The 2-bedroom house next door to me rents for $4,500.

Re: Light bill issue.

ChargedUp — Tue, 07 Sep 2021 06:05:42 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
How could the bill be $4000? Unreal!

In California, very easily 😖

Due to the 'Rona, utilities here have been forced to continue service regardless of payment for the last year and a half. With PG&Es highest price gouging rate being around $0.65/kWh, running A/C on the average home can cost about $4/HOUR unless you're on a medical or low income rate. Even then it's only a 20% discount. SCE, SDG&E, LADWP are marginally less while municipal electric providers tend to offer more sane rates. (SMUD, SVE, City of Anaheim, Glendale, etc.)

Don't pay someone else's bill. Tell the poco to end whatever service contract that is currently in effect and start a new contract with yourself. Make certain they clear the account address, otherwise that old bill may get tied to you mysteriously. I've seen it happen more than once in SCE territory.

Re: Light bill issue.

jmw1 — Wed, 08 Sep 2021 06:36:12 GMT

@ChargedUp wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
How could the bill be $4000? Unreal!
In California, very easily 😖

Due to the 'Rona, utilities here have been forced to continue service regardless of payment for the last year and a half. With PG&Es highest price gouging rate being around $0.65/kWh, running A/C on the average home can cost about $4/HOUR unless you're on a medical or low income rate. Even then it's only a 20% discount. SCE, SDG&E, LADWP are marginally less while municipal electric providers tend to offer more sane rates. (SMUD, SVE, City of Anaheim, Glendale, etc.)

If you are in California with SCE or PG&E, you need to have as many people as possible with a medical baseline allowance since that will keep you out of High Usage (tier 3) as much as possible... You can save a ton of money with 3+ medical users in the house. During COVID, the medical baseline was via self-attestation. But even with a doctor's note, it's easy for older, but not necessarily elderly to get. Many need cooling and possibly electric heating. CPAP is another reason for medical. If you can get the low income discount, even better since medical and low income stack together. You can't stay on low income if you ever touch High Usage, so that's why you need to stack medical.

Re: Light bill issue.

EAJuggalo — Sun, 12 Sep 2021 11:48:47 GMT

@SoCalGardener wrote:
@disdreamin wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
How could the bill be $4000? Unreal!
For a five-bedroom home as mentioned in the original post? Very easily. That's only $300 a month. If it's all electric, I can see that easily being possible if there were tenants the entire time.

Definitely. And I've been wondering since reading the OP, where on earth do you get a 5-bedroom house that rents for only $2,000 a month?! The 2-bedroom house next door to me rents for $4,500.

All depends on where you're at. I pay $1050 for my 4BR in WI. My cousin only pays $700 for her 3BR in IN.

Having the time frame listed in OP, many if not all utilities were refusing to shut off customers due to the pandemic.

Re: Light bill issue.

Anonymous — Sun, 12 Sep 2021 14:31:32 GMT

@SoCalGardener wrote:
@disdreamin wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
How could the bill be $4000? Unreal!
For a five-bedroom home as mentioned in the original post? Very easily. That's only $300 a month. If it's all electric, I can see that easily being possible if there were tenants the entire time.

Definitely. And I've been wondering since reading the OP, where on earth do you get a 5-bedroom house that rents for only $2,000 a month?! The 2-bedroom house next door to me rents for $4,500.

Hey @SoCalGardener

I learned a lot from you today and your posts give good advice and or CONCERNS. Enough said, you are one smard dude or dudet whichever the case may be.

Thanks for your postings

Mark

Re: Light bill issue.

SoCalGardener — Sun, 12 Sep 2021 21:56:58 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Hey @SoCalGardener
I learned a lot from you today and your posts give good advice and or CONCERNS. Enough said, you are one smard dude or dudet whichever the case may be.
Thanks for your postings

Why, thank you, Mark! That's very nice of you to say.

Re: Light bill issue.

SoCalGardener — Sun, 12 Sep 2021 22:05:38 GMT

@EAJuggalo wrote:
@SoCalGardener wrote:
Definitely. And I've been wondering since reading the OP, where on earth do you get a 5-bedroom house that rents for only $2,000 a month?! The 2-bedroom house next door to me rents for $4,500.
All depends on where you're at. I pay $1050 for my 4BR in WI. My cousin only pays $700 for her 3BR in IN.

Having the time frame listed in OP, many if not all utilities were refusing to shut off customers due to the pandemic.

Yes, believe me I'm very aware that housing prices vary by region. The 4-bedroom house I owned in Carrollton (a far North Dallas suburb) could be bought TEN TIMES OVER just by selling my current (and final), 2-bedroom house in Arcadia (a Los Angeles suburb)! No joke.

As for the utilities and the pandemic, sure, that's a good point, but the rest of the scenario makes no sense, i.e., a utility bill with *NO NAME* on it?! I've never heard of that, and I was in data processing for many years, and saw millions of bills--not one had no account holder.

As noted upthread, *if* the original account holder told the electric company he was moving, at that point they only had two choices: shut off the power *or* insist on getting the new responsible party's information, from them, not from someone else. In other words, the new account holder would have to provide all the standard information required for opening a utility account--their name, proof of ID, phone numbers, etc., and they may be required to pay a deposit (depending on various factors).

If he didn't tell them, how did they know?

And what kind of rudimentary software is the electric company using that would allow a BLANK name field on an account?!

Re: Light bill issue.

brk1971 — Mon, 13 Sep 2021 21:10:22 GMT

The utility simply has an account that is the property owner's responsibility and could not disconnect service during the pandemic.

The fact that the property owner did not establish an owner's account in-between leases doesn't change that the utility can put a lien on the property for the unpaid amount (once that becomes permited post pandemic in the specific area). If you are a new renter, you cannot be held responsible. However, the owner can, and the utility can certainly decline to service the property until it's paid once they can identify the owner. Which puts you in the bind you described... Do you pay it or lose the property because the landlord cannot legally rent it...? I would take the latter option.

Re: Light bill issue.

SoCalGardener — Mon, 13 Sep 2021 23:16:45 GMT

@brk1971 wrote:
The utility simply has an account that is the property owner's responsibility and could not disconnect service during the pandemic.
The fact that the property owner did not establish an owner's account in-between leases doesn't change that the utility can put a lien on the property for the unpaid amount (once that becomes permited post pandemic in the specific area). If you are a new renter, you cannot be held responsible. However, the owner can, and the utility can certainly decline to service the property until it's paid once they can identify the owner. Which puts you in the bind you described... Do you pay it or lose the property because the landlord cannot legally rent it...? I would take the latter option.

It has never worked that way in my life/experience. And I've had a lot of both!

If a property owner provides utilities, THEN they're his responsibility. If the rental agreement requires that the TENANT provides utilities, then it's in THEIR name, and they're responsible for the bill--even after moving out. Just like a credit card. You don't stop being responsible for its bill just because you move. If the tenant doesn't tell the utility to shut off service, they continue providing it, until it passes whatever their termination of service criteria are (days past due, amount due, whatever).

Things did change due to the pandemic, but not any of the above. It's ONLY the landlord's responsibility *if* the utility was in his name. But it wasn't. It was in the tenant's name. It is and will continue to be that person's responsibility, not the building owner's, just like the building owner wouldn't be responsible for the tenant's unpaid credit cards. They're the legal responsibility of the person who signed up for the account and committed to making its payments.

Re: Light bill issue.

brk1971 — Tue, 14 Sep 2021 18:41:28 GMT

Perhaps this is a region or location based thing, but my experience is the opposite. (Interesting!)

My experience = in connecting the utilities to the property (the main connection / meter / water main, etc.), the property owner selects whether to continue service between tenants or have it shut off when a tenant leaves...

Re: Light bill issue.

SoCalGardener — Tue, 14 Sep 2021 18:55:41 GMT

@brk1971 wrote:
Perhaps this is a region or location based thing, but my experience is the opposite. (Interesting!)
My experience = in connecting the utilities to the property (the main connection / meter / water main, etc.), the property owner selects whether to continue service between tenants or have it shut off when a tenant leaves...

Not really regional, more of a personal thing and also what type of building it is. In a large apartment complex, utilities may be included, while in a single-family home or in a commercial building, they're typically not. The owner of a building always has the option of choosing whether they want to pay the utility bills (and have the accounts in their names) or have the tenants pay--in the latter case, the owner simply has no involvement/responsibility for the utility account. Of course, there's a middle ground, too--where the tenants pay the owner and the owner pays the utility companies, but that means the owner is the account holder and legally responsible, even if the tenants skip out on a bill. But that isn't the case for the OP.