topic Re: People you can hire to understand/deal with bureaus? in General Credit Topics

People you can hire to understand/deal with bureaus? (120pt score drop w/ Affirm, all paid on time)

TyrannicalDuncery — Tue, 30 May 2023 21:15:52 GMT

Are there (non-scammer) people who could help my sister understand and deal with Experian? I think she's looking for someone to

explain Experian and Experian Boost as it applied to her situation and
potentially dispute or resolve something with Experian.

Background:

My sister's Experian credit score just tanked from ~820 to ~700 over 3 months, seemingly due to small loans with Affirma and Klarna which she has been paying on time. But that's just a guess. We don't really know what's going on and she is freaking out.
I assume more details would help but I don't know the details. I do know that she has paid all her (tiny) loans and credit cards on time, but Experian says that she has only paid a few on time. I don't know whether that's a timing issue or waht.
This is probably all stuff we could do ourselves, but we don't have infinite time and my sister is pretty stressed out, looking for some help.

Re: People you can hire to understand/deal with bureaus?

GZG — Tue, 30 May 2023 17:13:09 GMT

@TyrannicalDuncery wrote:
Are there (non-scammer) people who could help my sister understand and deal with Experian? I think she's looking for someone to
explain Experian and Experian Boost as it applied to her situation and
potentially dispute or resolve something with Experian.

Background:
My sister's Experian credit score just tanked from ~820 to ~700 over 3 months, seemingly due to small loans with Affirma and Klarna which she has been paying on time. But that's just a guess. We don't really know what's going on and she is freaking out.
I assume more details would help but I don't know the details. I do know that she has paid all her (tiny) loans and credit cards on time, but Experian says that she has only paid a few on time. I don't know whether that's a timing issue or waht.
This is probably all stuff we could do ourselves, but we don't have infinite time and my sister is pretty stressed out, looking for some help.

if the report is pulled from: https://www.annualcreditreport.com/ and she tells us what is on it, we can get a better understanding of why there might have been a score drop

if any of the new loans are reporting as late, that's something that can be corrected, assuming it's false, but without knowing what is reporting and how it's reporting, we can't know.

Affirma and Klarna loans are terrible for credit scores, as they lower the average age of accounts and they have a special code (CFA) which makes you lose 5-15 credit score points if you have one or more of these types of loans on your credit report

It is possible that if somebody had a very thin file without a lot of accounts, her average age of accounts was slashed several years which may account for the decreased score.

The important part is making sure these loans aren't being marked as 30 days or more late, if so, she needs to pay them immediately. If they are being marked late but they aren't late, she needs to contact the companies to correct their reporting.

If they won't correct their reporting, you can file a dispute with Experian with proof that the loans are paid on time and Experian should correct it.

Re: People you can hire to understand/deal with bureaus?

TyrannicalDuncery — Wed, 31 May 2023 14:58:12 GMT

Thanks! She just paid them all off. But when it comes to age of credit, she is ***** forever; is that right? Also, is it possible that here Experian is screwed up but her other scores are not?

I'll get back to you if she's okay sharing credit report info. I do know her average credit age is a little over 3 years, oldest account is 7 years, she has 3 credit cards, Experian says she has 1 "installment loan" and 3 "revolving accounts" (probably all these tiny scumbag loans).

[begin vent, nothing useful beyond this point]

And I just gotta ask: shouldn't this stuff be regulated? Like shouldn't they have to put giant flashing lights warning about this?

Re: People you can hire to understand/deal with bureaus?

GZG — Wed, 31 May 2023 14:25:01 GMT

@TyrannicalDuncery wrote:

revolvers are typically credit cards

whereas installment loans are loans like student loans, personal loans, car loans and possibly these Klarna loans (i'm not sure how they report them)

over time, more accounts prop up the age of accounts, so it's 'bad' for credit now and good for credit later.

Imagine a credit profile with 1 account that's 9 years old

9 years old

now you add a new account

9 years old

1 month old

now the average is 4.5 years, when before it was 9 years.

But as you add more accounts, the relative impact to the average age of accounts lessens.

9 years old

1 month old

average is 3 years now

because you have more accounts, you can add new accounts without harming the age of your credit as much as if you only had one account

Assuming these loans are being reported as paid on time, as time passes, they will only slightly harm her credit profile as they are labeled as CFA's, but it's not a meaningfully harmful impact

I would avoid those types of loans in the future, nothing you need to buy from them is worth having them on your credit report, and if you have long standing credit cards, just use those instead or get a 0% intro apr credit card

Assuming everything is being labeled as paid on time which is the really important part, I wouldn't worry about the score too much. It should bounce back over time close to where it was before.

I don't personally understand why they don't simply say they won't report unless you are late, I would love to take advantage of their 0% apr offers, but I can't without them reporting the loans, even if they're always paid on time

Re: People you can hire to understand/deal with bureaus?

TyrannicalDuncery — Tue, 30 May 2023 17:57:29 GMT

Thanks @GZG! That's above and beyond, I really appreciate the time.

I don't think anyone truly knows the inner workings of the scores, but based on the bureau sites and what you said I think I have learned three things. Are these right?

I think that it is best to think about the "straight average" age of accounts, even if like one of them is $1 and one of them is $10,000.
I think that these stinkin' CFA accounts will continue to affect her credit age even once they are fully paid off.
Probably the biggest negative impact to her credit is due to the accounts that are (allegedly) not paid as agreed.

I still owe y'all more detailed info on her credit report.

Re: People you can hire to understand/deal with bureaus?

SouthJamaica — Tue, 30 May 2023 17:51:25 GMT

@TyrannicalDuncery wrote:
Thanks! She just paid them all off. But when it comes to age of credit, she is f****ed forever; is that right? Also, is it possible that here Experian is screwed up but her other scores are not?

I'll get back to you if she's okay sharing credit report info. I do know her average credit age is a little over 3 years, oldest account is 7 years, she has 3 credit cards, Experian says she has 1 "installment loan" and 3 "revolving accounts" (probably all these tiny scumbag loans).

[begin vent, nothing useful beyond this point]
And I just gotta ask: shouldn't this sh*t be regulated? Like shouldn't they have to put giant flashing lights warning about this?

1. I doubt there's anyone you can trust reliably to help her deal with it. She's better off crowd sourcing her questions here.

2. Next time before she makes a move like taking out jerky loans like that she should check with us first. There was no reason in the world for her to go into things like that; she had good scores and could have gotten quality loans if she wanted.

3. As to shouldn't these things be regulated, of course they should, but thanks to prevailing mentality government agencies are almost all hamstrung by lack of support.

Re: People you can hire to understand/deal with bureaus?

TyrannicalDuncery — Tue, 30 May 2023 17:59:46 GMT

Thank you @SouthJamaica! Yeah, it sucks. She worked so hard to get her score up. It sounds like that -5 to -15 will follow her to her grave.

Is it possible that her non-Experian scores are unaffected?

Re: People you can hire to understand/deal with bureaus?

SouthJamaica — Tue, 30 May 2023 18:02:21 GMT

@TyrannicalDuncery wrote:
Thank you @SouthJamaica! Yeah, it sucks. She worked so hard to get her score up. It sounds like that -5 to -15 will follow her to her grave.

Is it possible that her non-Experian scores are unaffected?

1. Not to her grave. FICO scores have the saving grace that time heals all wounds.

2. Yeah it's possible other scores won't be similarly affected.

Re: People you can hire to understand/deal with bureaus?

TyrannicalDuncery — Tue, 30 May 2023 18:19:20 GMT

Thanks @SouthJamaica, you rule. I keep asking questions but of course you've been very generous already. No pressure.

I've heard that "negative" information other than bankruptcy only stays on your report for up to 7 years.

Are you referring to something like that? (And does the CFA flag count as "negative"?)

Re: People you can hire to understand/deal with bureaus?

GZG — Tue, 30 May 2023 18:24:48 GMT

@TyrannicalDuncery wrote:
Thanks @GZG! That's above and beyond, I really appreciate the time.

I don't think anyone truly knows the inner workings of the scores, but based on the bureau sites and what you said I think I have learned three things. Are these right?
I think that it is best to think about the "straight average" age of accounts, even if like one of them is $1 and one of them is $10,000. Yes, that's true
I think that these stinkin' CFA accounts will continue to affect her credit age even once they are fully paid off. Yes, but the impact is small, I wouldn't worry too much about it or go scorched earth or anything about it

it's not negative or derogatory in the sense that going on a payment deferment or actually being late would be, but for clean profiles, FICO is going to look at the existence of a CFA is something not optimal and score harming and it will likely point that out in credit score reason codes.
Probably the biggest negative impact to her credit is due to the accounts that are (allegedly) not paid as agreed. this is what you need to worry about, confirm the account is being reported accurately as paid as agreed. pay off those loans and consider other options in the future if you want loans.
I still owe y'all more detailed info on her credit report.

what the score dropping doesn't take away is the positive credit history you have and the length of time of that positive credit history

if she has 7 years of positive revolving history, that doesn't suddenly go away or mean less underwriting wise just because you have some affirm loans on the profile now

Re: People you can hire to understand/deal with bureaus?

SouthJamaica — Tue, 30 May 2023 18:28:31 GMT

@TyrannicalDuncery wrote:
Thanks @SouthJamaica, you rule. I keep asking questions but of course you've been very generous already. No pressure.

I've heard that "negative" information other than bankruptcy only stays on your report for up to 7 years.
Are you referring to something like that? (And does the CFA flag count as "negative"?)

There are many ways in which time heals all wounds.

1. Yes that one, negatives being removed.

2. Negatives losing impact gradually over time.

3. Age of oldest account grows.

4. Average age of accounts grows.

5. Age of youngest account shrinks.

Things like that.

Re: People you can hire to understand/deal with bureaus?

SouthJamaica — Tue, 30 May 2023 21:44:00 GMT

As to the CFA impact.... IMHO little is really known about what impact it has on scores.

I've never personally had anything with that tag, but synthesizing what I've read about it, I'm under the impression that it does not cost a lot of points.

Re: People you can hire to understand/deal with bureaus?

TyrannicalDuncery — Tue, 30 May 2023 18:34:39 GMT

Thanks @GZG , that makes sense. I think that's all I really need to know until she collects info from lenders and credit reports.

But since I can't stop asking questions, I have some more about age if you have time: am I correct that those CFA accounts will go away after 10 years since they are closed?

(If so, I guess that could be good or bad.)

Re: People you can hire to understand/deal with bureaus?

SouthJamaica — Tue, 30 May 2023 18:39:30 GMT

@TyrannicalDuncery wrote:
Thanks @GZG , that makes sense. I think that's all I really need to know until she collects info from lenders and credit reports.
But since I can't stop asking questions, I have some more about age if you have time: am I correct that those CFA accounts will go away after 10 years since they are closed?

(If so, I guess that could be good or bad.)

Although 10 years is a common juncture for closed accounts to be removed from credit reports, it's not written in stone. Some closed accounts disappear much sooner, some much later.

Re: People you can hire to understand/deal with bureaus?

TyrannicalDuncery — Tue, 30 May 2023 23:27:47 GMT

LATER!?!?. But I won't shoot the messenger .

Is it a good rule of thumb that "if it's not on the credit report, it's not affecting the score"?

Re: People you can hire to understand/deal with bureaus?

SouthJamaica — Tue, 30 May 2023 23:28:10 GMT

@TyrannicalDuncery wrote:

LATER!?!?. But I won't shoot the messenger .

Is it a good rule of thumb that "if it's not on the credit report, it's not affecting the score"?

Yes. That is a good rule of thumb.

Re: People you can hire to understand/deal with bureaus?

Brian_Earl_Spilner — Tue, 30 May 2023 21:25:53 GMT

@TyrannicalDuncery wrote:
Thank you @SouthJamaica! Yeah, it sucks. She worked so hard to get her score up. It sounds like that -5 to -15 will follow her to her grave.

Is it possible that her non-Experian scores are unaffected?

Affirm currently only reports to EX

Re: People you can hire to understand/deal with bureaus?

TyrannicalDuncery — Tue, 30 May 2023 21:52:08 GMT

Thanks @Brian_Earl_Spilner ! Makes sense. Do you know how it works for any of the other big BNPL companies?

Re: People you can hire to understand/deal with bureaus?

Anonymous — Wed, 31 May 2023 04:03:41 GMT

@SouthJamaica wrote:
There are many ways in which time heals all wounds.
1. Yes that one, negatives being removed.
2. Negatives losing impact gradually over time.
3. Age of oldest account grows.
4. Average age of accounts grows.
5. Age of youngest account shrinks.

Things like that.

This. And while your sister's choice of "apps" isn't typical for here, you will see many similar things in this forum. People newly excited about credit (or even old-timers) will go on an app spree and apply for several cards in a short period of time. The inquiries and reduction in average age of accounts causes a drop in their scores (potentially offset by a utilization decrease). If the spree is big enough, the point loss can be quite large but over time, just as with your sister's case, the damage goes away as the accounts age

Re: People you can hire to understand/deal with bureaus?

Anonymalous — Wed, 31 May 2023 08:12:07 GMT

@TyrannicalDuncery wrote:

Is it possible that her non-Experian scores are unaffected?

Here's a free place to check Equifax FICO 8:

https://www.myfico.com/products/fico-free-plan-a

MyFICO appears to have stopped promoting it, but the link still seems to work.