topic Re: Some thoughts on this forum, and its purpose. in General Credit Topics

Some thoughts on this forum, and its purpose.

Anonymous — Mon, 03 Mar 2008 21:48:43 GMT

I have been feeling a little bad about a post I made to a thread the other day. I don’t want to rehash that discussion, but it made me think a little about this forum, my experience with it, and the reasons I came here.

We are human, and imperfect. Everyone has made mistakes, and deserves the chance to makeup for those mistakes. Regardless the background story, almost everyone on this forum is attempting to take control of their finances, cleanup their FICOs while cleaning up their act. That should, and does count for something.

Someone who is active in the process of getting control of their finances should be rewarded with improved scores, and the benefits that brings. Even with a checkered past, their efforts to remove bad information, and work to change whatever behavior, or circumstances that effected their scores in the first place, is a good effort.

What bothers me, however, is what I perceive as attitude. I don’t think it is pervasive within the forum, but does exist. What I see is the lack of personal responsibility. Lack of acceptance of their mistakes, or even believing that it was a mistake in the first place.

I’m not trying to distinguish what was a good reason or bad reasons for financial problems, but what you are trying to do about them. Escape the debt for as little as possible so you can get your score back to a place where a lender will trust you again? Really, is that the goal?

I have a rant on what people spend money on, but that’s personal. That’s a personal decision. Buy whatever you like. When you get yourself in over your head, come to a place like this to get back on track, but GET ON TRACK. Understand that a couple months of letter righting will not fix everything, and shouldn’t. Money spent on credit is MORE expensive than spending cash you HAVE.

Sorry for the rant. For everyone working hard to resolve their past debts with honor, and reflection, keep it up.

TBR

Re: Some thoughts on this forum, and its purpose.

MidnightVoice — Mon, 03 Mar 2008 22:00:06 GMT

I have paid all my debts in full, as they were my debts.

Re: Some thoughts on this forum, and its purpose.

Anonymous — Mon, 03 Mar 2008 22:18:56 GMT

TBR,

You make very good points. I will testify and say, as I said in my very first post on FICOForum, that I was once very responsible, then became very irresponsible. So much to the point where for about 4-5 yrs I said "my credit is screwed up, i won't even be able to finance a pickle on a hamburger and it can't get any worse so its whatever".

Then one day, about two years ago this time, the light bulb went off! I sat down and made a list of life goals. I acknowledged that I screwed up ROYALLY and realized that in order to reach my life goals I needed to face my credit nightmare, tackle it and RECLAIM my credit health.

I will do what need to be done to do that, including pay the debts that I CREATED. On the other hand, I would imagine that there are those who do want to repair their credit in hopes of potential future lenders finding them credit worthy - AS DO I. But as you stated, the proof WON'T be in one being able to obtain credit, the proof will be in how they manage their credit AS WELL AS their debt. I am much more fiscally responsible now than I was say 2 yrs ago. And I am proud of the changes I've made in my FISCAL BEHAVIOR and I know that I will NEVER abuse my credit standing EVER AGAIN. Note that I have not begun looking for credit as I am not where I want to be score wise. Once I'm there I just want to bask in having a great score (by my standards) for a while lol.

I wish everyone luck in rebuilding their credit-dom.

Re: Some thoughts on this forum, and its purpose.

Anonymous — Mon, 03 Mar 2008 22:30:54 GMT

Well put Serenity! My feelings persactly!

Your own personal credit is your business.....your personal business. You have to treat it like a business.

It's not free or fun, but managed well and properly, you will be rewarded for your efforts by not having to pay cash for everything. My personal feeling is that credit is just a delayed payment, and the debt you incur must be paid back...on time every time.

And I am unanimous in my decision

Re: Some thoughts on this forum, and its purpose.

Anonymous — Mon, 03 Mar 2008 22:37:54 GMT

I started with 4 issues:

1 collection with Portfolio for Nextel - dv and they removed.... still no idea how they say I owed; I was past the contract expiration date when we moved service and it was paid prior to that (have the check).
1 collection with Verizon - 4 months later they took it off (I didn't owe them because I paid the bill for the month prior to diconnecting service - so no idea how they had a balance due) - have the bank debit
1 med collection - which I do owe and will be happy to pay in full with a PFD (refused by OC). Stubborn me won't pay it unless they remove. CA didn't fully validate so I'm working that angle. DH was handling the bills at the time - have since taken over from him.
A Tax Lien which happened when we were TDYing all over the country due to DH being recalled. It got paid within 30 days of them asking for payment - and I am trying to GW this off.

11 other accounts all with perfect payment history - so am I irresponsible -- I don't think so. I just don't think I should pay with my "credit ability" for the next 4+ years over $130 CA account and a paid $200 tax lien.

I am a proponent of DV, OC Investigation, and PFD --- someone who hasn't realized the error of their ways would not be trying to "clean-up". I can't change an individual's attituce about money/credit etc - but I can help them to get a start on respecting money and credit and helping them get to where they want to be. Maybe the light will come on along the way. Cleaning up is nerve wracking and takes it's own toll emotionally, physically and financially. If a CA or OC was careless enough to let SOL expire (they have entire legal departments, btw) - and I can use that to my advantage to get a settlement and delete - then the bad is on them for giving up their rights.

I am also a staunch supporter of making CAs follow the law/code/caselaw - and if they drag you into court then, they have to prove every detail. AND YES, IN EVERY CORRESPONDENCE AND EVEN IN A COURT SUMMONS - YOU DENY THE DEBT - THE BURDEN IS ON THEM TO PROVE YOU OWE IT! This is the way our legal system and our laws are written.

On the flip side is it fair to 'owe' $3K to a CA on what was a $300 CL CC for which the CA bought the debt for $3.00 and wants the $3K from you? More 'fair' to pay the OC $297 and the CA their $3.00 - both with 'reasonable' interest added.

Message Edited by Lady_Scarlet on 03-03-2008 05:37 PM

Re: Some thoughts on this forum, and its purpose.

Junejer — Mon, 03 Mar 2008 22:35:09 GMT

@MidnightVoice wrote:
I have paid all my debts in full, as they were my debts.

Me too, and in many cases those which others (ex-wife) created.

Re: Some thoughts on this forum, and its purpose.

Anonymous — Mon, 03 Mar 2008 22:49:33 GMT

@Junejer wrote:

@MidnightVoice wrote:
I have paid all my debts in full, as they were my debts.

Me too, and in many cases those which others (ex-wife) created.

I can't wait years to have items on my collections to just drop off...they need to be paid..and I will fight for a PFD, GW's but in the end...the Lenders want it paid! So hopefully in early 2009, I hope to be debt free...it was my mistake and I know I'm going to have to deal with it!

Oh and I think colleges should offer Credit Education classes...rather than have tons of credit card companies around campus signing students up without jobs or income!!!

Re: Some thoughts on this forum, and its purpose.

Anonymous — Mon, 03 Mar 2008 22:52:33 GMT

I am a proponent of DV, OC Investigation, and PFD --- someone who hasn't realized the error of their ways would not be trying to "clean-up".

Sure they would. They want MORE credit. They need to "clean-up" to get a new card, or whatever.

I can't change an individual's attituce about money/credit etc - but I can help them to get a start on respecting money and credit and helping them get to where they want to be. Maybe the light will come on along the way.

I might disagree that you cant change attitudes of others, but to the second point, helping others and hoping the lights come on is fine. Back to my original point, were all human, and helping others is part of that.

If a CA or OC was careless enough to let SOL expire (they have entire legal departments, btw) - and I can use that to my advantage to get a settlement and delete - then the bad is on them for giving up their rights.

I am also a staunch supporter of making CAs follow the law/code/caselaw - and if they drag you into court then, they have to prove every detail. AND YES, IN EVERY CORRESPONDENCE AND EVEN IN A COURT SUMMONS - YOU DENY THE DEBT - THE BURDEN IS ON THEM TO PROVE YOU OWE IT! This is the way our legal system and our laws are written.

OK. True enough, but admit to yourself that the debt was REAL in the first place.

On the flip side is it fair to 'owe' $3K to a CA on what was a $300 CL CC for which the CA bought the debt for $3.00 and wants the $3K from you? More 'fair' to pay the OC $297 and the CA their $3.00 - both with 'reasonable' interest added.

No its not fair. Thats a subject in itself. but agree, its not fair.

TBR

Re: Some thoughts on this forum, and its purpose.

Anonymous — Mon, 03 Mar 2008 22:57:09 GMT

I won't lie...during my college days, I was very unaware of how to handle credit, and didn't think about what it would do to my life! I'm paying my debt back...via PFD's or paid collections because I do want to buy a condo and I do owe the money!!!

I can't wait years to have items on my collections to just drop off...they need to be paid..and I will fight for a PFD, GW's but in the end...the Lenders want it paid! So hopefully in early 2009, I hope to be debt free...it was my mistake and I know I'm going to have to deal with it!

Thats what college is for.

Oh and I think colleges should offer Credit Education classes...rather than have tons of credit card companies around campus signing students up without jobs or income!!!

Agree!

TBR

Re: Some thoughts on this forum, and its purpose.

MidnightVoice — Mon, 03 Mar 2008 23:05:16 GMT

BTW - you might like this thread:

http://ficoforums.myfico.com/fico/board/message?board.id=creditcard&thread.id=9958&view=by_date_ascending&page=1

Re: Some thoughts on this forum, and its purpose.

Anonymous — Mon, 03 Mar 2008 23:10:07 GMT

I personally must say I love this forum, and anything I can do to help others is a great thing. To those that have given me advice, no matter how much I like it or don't like it Thank You. I like many others was in college, couldn't afford what I racked up on cc and med bills. Yes, my fault, but I am here to make things right, and go about it the best route possible...mostly for me, but also for the OC...I could care less about the CA, but I am one effected by $300 turning into $3000! Come on that isn't fair, that is worse the interest on tax debt. Without this forum, I and many others would have no clue #1 where to start, #2 what such things like PFD and DV are, and #3 I would be waiting a really long time to buy my first home. I have nothing bad on my credit for the past 24 mos...now I can pay my CO but who would say "Yes I want to wait 4 yrs for it to drop off my CR, not me."

Nothing personal to anyone just speaking my peace

Re: Some thoughts on this forum, and its purpose.

Junejer — Mon, 03 Mar 2008 23:19:25 GMT

I am with you Courtney. Quite frankly, this board is for each person something different. It is not up to me to change anyone's attitude about ANYTHING. I can lead them to the water, but I can't force them to drink, furthermore, it's not my job to force them to drink. I am not the judge of why someone comes to this forum. What's it to me if someone wants to fix their credit to get more credit? I am not their HS. Each individual has to look themselves in the eye each night while brushing their teeth to determine whether or not they did the right thing that day.

I say that if you created the debt, then make it right, but make sure that it's a win-win situation (creditor gets paid back and you get made whole on your CR).

CAs have been hammering the uninformed for years with predatory actions like what's happened to Courtney. IMO, most of them are doing something illegal anyway. It's about time that there is a forum like this to arm consumers with enough ammunition to level the battlefield some.

Re: Some thoughts on this forum, and its purpose.

Anonymous — Mon, 03 Mar 2008 23:30:44 GMT

I took this forum for what I thought it was intended to do. Help someone with the information they needed to repair credit, suggestions on what to do ifs, and general credit questions, etc. I was not under the assumption that how or why you got into the situation should be an issue, regardless of whether they accept their mistakes, percieved or otherwise. Not all credit issues come from mistakes but, rather from events out of your control. As far as I am concerned, whether someone accepts responsiblity, acknowledges acceptance or believes they are responsible is irrelevant, and not any ones place on this forum to point it out. As long as what information is asked for is within the legal limits of the law, what they do with that information is up to them. Hopefully, along the way, they will also learn.

Re: Some thoughts on this forum, and its purpose.

Anonymous — Mon, 03 Mar 2008 23:35:37 GMT

The only debts that I owe are ongoing...auto and CC debt.

I do believe that every person that comes in to these threads should know what their legal rights are under SOL. Unless they know that they might find thenself in deeper trouble then they were. After that it is up to them what they do.

IMO almost all CAs are barfbags....they do not care about anyones rights or what they are doing is legal or moral.

Re: Some thoughts on this forum, and its purpose.

Anonymous — Tue, 04 Mar 2008 00:11:24 GMT

TBR:

It has been my observation that most folks here are willing to call someone to the carpet if it seems that someone is basically asking "How can I get away with improving my credit without actually paying what and whom I owe?"

We have all read posts and thought - Just pay the stupid bill and get on with it.

But- and I believe this to be the key to this forum's effectiveness - we are all working towards a common goal. Fiscal good health.

Sometimes credit issues arise after dealing with things like divorce, illness, loss of a business or a person who has unwittingly left the financial dealings to an incompetant spouse.

Sometimes we get too many credit cards in college without any real understanding of the responsibilty or ramifications. And I think that often times, we may be dealing with an unfullfilling career / marriage / personal situation, and just buy stuff to make ourselves feel better. But whatever the reason, I think it's never too little or too late to get on track.

As for perceiving attitude in posts, some people just aren't skilled at writing and may not effectively communicate what information they are trying to get. I think getting an informed reply - or a reply asking for further details and so forth, are by far more helpful than getting scolded for "not being responsible." I save that speech for my kids - and myself.

While we all agree that we have made (and some of still making!) mistakes, I think we can also agree that gentle civilty, support, atta-boy!/girl!, and good information are the heart and soul of this forum.

Re: Some thoughts on this forum, and its purpose.

Anonymous — Tue, 04 Mar 2008 00:40:20 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
TBR:
It has been my observation that most folks here are willing to call someone to the carpet if it seems that someone is basically asking "How can I get away with improving my credit without actually paying what and whom I owe?"
We have all read posts and thought - Just pay the stupid bill and get on with it.
But- and I believe this to be the key to this forum's effectiveness - we are all working towards a common goal. Fiscal good health.
Sometimes credit issues arise after dealing with things like divorce, illness, loss of a business or a person who has unwittingly left the financial dealings to an incompetant spouse.
Sometimes we get too many credit cards in college without any real understanding of the responsibilty or ramifications. And I think that often times, we may be dealing with an unfullfilling career / marriage / personal situation, and just buy stuff to make ourselves feel better. But whatever the reason, I think it's never too little or too late to get on track.
As for perceiving attitude in posts, some people just aren't skilled at writing and may not effectively communicate what information they are trying to get. I think getting an informed reply - or a reply asking for further details and so forth, are by far more helpful than getting scolded for "not being responsible." I save that speech for my kids - and myself.
While we all agree that we have made (and some of still making!) mistakes, I think we can also agree that gentle civilty, support, atta-boy!/girl!, and good information are the heart and soul of this forum.

First, your sig, "you are not your stuff" is great!

I'm not trying to scold anyone. Really. I want everyone to get the help they need. I find the support given in this forum as good as I any friend or family member. Thats the good part. Helping each other navigate what is in fact complicated. Personal finance. Thats what makes it a little more galling to see a thread displaying would consider this attitude I have encountered.

To restate, I know everyone makes mistakes. I could, and have, listed some of mine. I need the help of this forum, otherwise I would not read, or post to it, right? Its also important to reiterate, 99.9999% of the threads and reply show NO hint of this.

When I read something about some staggering debt load, I truly feel for that person. I know it was not their intention to get into this situation. While everyone is helping to clean-up, I would like to see people become aware of the whys and hows that put them here.

For anyone reading thinking I'm some Ayn Rand type jerk, let me tell you a embarrassing personal financial problem.

The FIRST thing that really set me down the wrong path was the IRS. They came after me saying I owed them 13k. By the time it was done, it was ~16k, but thats not really the embarrassing part. I had not filed some years, was careless with others, and I knew it was a mess. So, rather than deal head-on with the IRS, I got my CO to loan me the money, and just PAID THEM! I had the President of the company I work for telling me to "go to my accountant!" I had the CFO telling me to get with the IRS, and blah blah. Thats how it all sounded to me. BLAH BLAH. It took their harassing me for more to make me get off my a** and get a accountant. Couple months later, she had everything straight, and MOST OF THE MONEY COMING BACK. But thats not before I was behind to the credit cards, and generally messed-up. Just because I was too embarrassed to ask for the help.

So, my point. I learned from the experience. I will NEVER mess with the IRS again. Cause/effect.

TBR

Re: Some thoughts on this forum, and its purpose.

Anonymous — Tue, 04 Mar 2008 00:51:07 GMT

The FIRST thing that really set me down the wrong path was the IRS. They came after me saying I owed them 13k. By the time it was done, it was ~16k, but thats not really the embarrassing part. I had not filed some years, was careless with others, and I knew it was a mess. So, rather than deal head-on with the IRS, I got my CO to loan me the money, and just PAID THEM! I had the President of the company I work for telling me to "go to my accountant!" I had the CFO telling me to get with the IRS, and blah blah. Thats how it all sounded to me. BLAH BLAH. It took their harassing me for more to make me get off my a** and get a accountant. Couple months later, she had everything straight, and MOST OF THE MONEY COMING BACK. But thats not before I was behind to the credit cards, and generally messed-up. Just because I was too embarrassed to ask for the help.

So, my point. I learned from the experience. I will NEVER mess with the IRS again. Cause/effect.

TBR

That's why I'm 1000% pro fair tax!

Re: Some thoughts on this forum, and its purpose.

marty56 — Tue, 04 Mar 2008 00:54:56 GMT

The overall goal here is to learn from each other, try not to make the same mistakes as others and not to repeat ones we have made.

Yes there will always be a group of people who exploit the system and I try not to judge (and therefore be judged) but it bugs me sometimes too.

Anyway if anyone of us makes a difference in just one person's life here, then we get a 850 LifeScore.

Message Edited by marty56 on 03-03-2008 04:54 PM

Re: Some thoughts on this forum, and its purpose.

Junejer — Tue, 04 Mar 2008 01:14:24 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

First, your sig, "you are not your stuff" is great!

I'm not trying to scold anyone. Really. I want everyone to get the help they need. I find the support given in this forum as good as I any friend or family member. Thats the good part. Helping each other navigate what is in fact complicated. Personal finance. Thats what makes it a little more galling to see a thread displaying would consider this attitude I have encountered.

To restate, I know everyone makes mistakes. I could, and have, listed some of mine. I need the help of this forum, otherwise I would not read, or post to it, right? Its also important to reiterate, 99.9999% of the threads and reply show NO hint of this.

When I read something about some staggering debt load, I truly feel for that person. I know it was not their intention to get into this situation. While everyone is helping to clean-up, I would like to see people become aware of the whys and hows that put them here.

For anyone reading thinking I'm some Ayn Rand type jerk, let me tell you a embarrassing personal financial problem.

The FIRST thing that really set me down the wrong path was the IRS. They came after me saying I owed them 13k. By the time it was done, it was ~16k, but thats not really the embarrassing part. I had not filed some years, was careless with others, and I knew it was a mess. So, rather than deal head-on with the IRS, I got my CO to loan me the money, and just PAID THEM! I had the President of the company I work for telling me to "go to my accountant!" I had the CFO telling me to get with the IRS, and blah blah. Thats how it all sounded to me. BLAH BLAH. It took their harassing me for more to make me get off my a** and get a accountant. Couple months later, she had everything straight, and MOST OF THE MONEY COMING BACK. But thats not before I was behind to the credit cards, and generally messed-up. Just because I was too embarrassed to ask for the help.

So, my point. I learned from the experience. I will NEVER mess with the IRS again. Cause/effect.

TBR

TBR, glad you did learn from your embarassing experience. We hope that everyone would, but what if they didn't? Sometimes, it takes others longer to learn from certain mistakes. It really shouldn't matter to us whether or not someone learns from their mistakes. Now, if I am noticing that "Smathers" is hitting this forum again in 2010 complaining about the same issues that is plaguing him in 2008, then it's my choice whether or not to respond to his post (b/c he didn't learn). But I am not his judge, jury and executioner. As I stated before, we are not anyone's Holy Spirit (HS) or conscience or whatever you want to call it. We would like all to learn from their mistakes, but if they don't what's it to us?

Re: Some thoughts on this forum, and its purpose.

PayYouNever — Tue, 04 Mar 2008 01:23:47 GMT

I look at it like this, the reporting is screwed up - sevens of bad luck (credit) if you're late or suffer from financial crisis that is beyond your repair. My credit situation was screwed up from right when left college, because my roommate during my senior year didn't pay the last three months on the year lease that we signed. So a judgment was entered in my name, because of my stupid roommate who refused to pay (his mom was a US attorney, so she knew what was going to happen). I received the summons and tried to explain to the judge, but to no avail.

So I had to deal with 7 years of crap credit for something that wasn't my fault, taught me to never have roommates again -- and I haven't outside of my two brother at various time and they never missed a payment.

But the whole issue of fighting the CRAs -- even when you might be responsible for the debt, and therefore trying to settle -- is applauded, because the penalty sooo does not fit the crime. Plus, almost every account that you have, you can justify trying to settle if you go into CO status, because you have paid too much in outrageous interest charges or so-called fees or regulatory taxes that you shouldn't have had to pay, that the Big Corporate company can suffer to lose even a few hundred dollars in bad debt; they're getting over on you any way and the CEOs ARE lining their pockets with your blood, sweat & tears.