topic Re: PFD for an OC? (apt manager fraud?) in General Credit Topics

PFD for an OC? (apt manager fraud?)

Nectarine — Wed, 20 Jan 2010 09:15:12 GMT

2010 Note: See 2nd Page for my update on this situation.

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Hi all! I'm in the process of going through one of my credit reports with a fine-tooth comb and there's an item that I think would really benefit from a group perspective.

I have a $1690 charge from my old apartment complex for "repairs and cleaning" on top of the security deposit that they absorbed (which was $750). I already knew about this charge, but was busy ignoring it until I got a new copy of my report.

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A little backstory:
In 2005/2006, I lived with two financial disasters in a two-bedroom apartment in California for a year. One of those is my girlfriend, who agrees with my assessment of the living situation and fully admits to being a financial disaster When we moved in, the carpets were stained in areas and steam-cleaning did nothing to fix it. The counters were stained in some areas (which of course would not come up) and were old and needed to be replaced months before we moved in. We documented everything on the apt's move-in form (which they promptly lost) and took pictures (which we accidentally deleted). The balcony paint was chipped and worn-down. They of course never fixed these problems, and the manager was openly hostile about it when we would complain (we are all VERY meek people).

We lived there for a year, and I am the first to admit that we did a very minor amount of damage to the apartment (as with all homes) -- we added a couple of stains to the counters. But then again we steamed the carpets several times and never were able to clean them all the way. When we moved out, I'd say that the carpets were in better shape than when we moved in because of all the cleaning, but needed to be vacuumed.

We had tried unsuccessfully for months to find a new apartment, and the situation at the apartment complex was so bad that we finally just had to put in our notice (since our lease was up and the rent would skyrocket anyway). Even though we all have impeccable rental history everywhere else, we "somehow" didn't have one there so no one wanted us. The only place that would have us wanted a $3600 deposit, plus two months of rent up front PLUS a $350 'pet deposit.' (Ouch). So a month from moving, we knew that we'd be living in a hotel.

Before we moved, I had spent days and days going through our stuff (mine & my girlfriend's) as I was unemployed and she was working 12-hour shifts temporarily. Our other roommate didn't really help with the house cleaning at all. We had all been sorting, organizing and selling stuff so the apartment was a big mess for the last month. We all were trying to find a way to get most of our furniture disposed of or stored away while we found a new apartment, but no one would rent us a van.

It was completely insane, no one would even rent us a cargo van or pickup truck to take our furniture somewhere within the city we lived!!! The other roommate was able to finally get a small cargo van and together we made lots of trips to the storage unit. But there were two pieces of furniture we could not move and we could find no one who could/would pick them up. We even called charities (they were in good condition) but no one wanted them.

To make matters worse, my girlfriend and I had a trip that was impossible to miss (family commitment) two weeks before we were to leave. When we came back, everything was literally in the same spot -- with the added bonus of his fast food garbage. I will concede that most of the trash (old junk mail etc) was ours, but some stuff was his -- and the stuff I asked him to get rid of was still there, covered in dust. There was even a pan of food that had gone rotten on the stove. I was not pleased, and I wound up just taping the pot lids closed and throwing them in the trash.

At that point I went a little nuts and went on a trash-ing spree. Dirty dishes? Trash. Roommate's dirty shirt on the sofa? Trash. Unread book with a furry burger on top? Trash. Video game on the floor? Trash. Organizer shelf? Trash.

Once I started doing that, I was making a lot more progress. ^_^ Also in our absence, a cat had knocked over a large bottle of "personal product," so the floor was wet in one spot (easily fixed with a steam clean, but we didn't have time). I did a lot of cleaning the last few days, but couldn't get everything 100% before we had to leave. In the end, I decided to turn the furniture up on it's side before leaving (since I'd be charged for it's removal anyway).
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The Charges:
The initial charge (after deposit) was $490 dollars, and covered replacing the counters,cleaning the carpet, cleaning the apartment, furniture haul-away and trash pickup (for some reason). We all had no problem paying this, and were waiting for the next payperiod when I suggested we ask for an itemized bill with copies of their receipts. They didn't itemize it, but instead listed the hours it took and the average cost per hour but not the labor/supply/service breakdown of it all. I asked for one again (through the management's lawyer) and got a new bill for $1690. This bill was also not itemized and there were no receipts.

So... What changed? Well, six weeks after we moved out (someone else moved in), the management decided to finally replace the carpets and bill us $1200 for it. I was floored. We requested a new itemized bill but their lawyer/collector declined. So at that point, we all said that we wouldn't pay it and that was that. Their collection office would call, we'd ask for an itemized bill, they'd refuse or say that they'd send it -- wash rinse repeat.

When we lived in that apartment, a neighbor tried to break into our home early one morning, screaming and accusing us (of all things) of smoking tobacco! Cigarettes! We weren't, which makes it even more ridiculous. The manager pressured us into not contacting the police and basically said that we would never be able to get another apartment so we shouldn't make trouble there. He was right. Six months after moving out, we were still living in motels, were out of money and decided to leave the state entirely. Although we had a combined income of about $6000 in a given month, no one would rent us an apartment (even the tiny $700 apts wouldn't take us because of the huge bad marks from this place).

Overall it was a horrid experience but I learned a lot. I don't have any consumer debt (credit cards etc) and very little in debt besides my student loan, so it shocks me that I have a 526 EQ credit score. Believe it or not, I'm still friends with my old roommate and he did find a nice apartment in Oakland that would take him. My girlfriend and I are living with her parents in WA, (still) unwilling to look for a new place right now.

You're probably wondering why the other two people who lived there aren't paying it too. My GF can't (and wouldn't if she could), and my old roommate realistically can't (with his lifestyle) and really doesn't want to anyway. My GF is declaring bankruptcy, so for her it isn't an issue anymore. My old roomate has also mentioned the possibility of bankruptcy, but frankly declaring bankruptcy for maybe $15'000 worth of debt is pretty asinine. So I'm actually not asking either of them to contribute, and I don't really mind that.

I don't feel that great about paying the full $1690 (I'd feel great about paying the $490 haha), but I want to do a PFD with the management company so that I could actually rent an apartment someday soon and have decent credit.

How would I go about setting up a PFD with them? And I know that everyone says to not bother doing a DV with an OC, but do you think it would help in this case???

Thanks for your help so much!! And sorry for the long intro!

Griffin

Message Edited by Nectarine on 01-20-2010 01:15 AM

Re: PFD for an OC? (apt manager fraud?)

fishbjc — Tue, 11 Mar 2008 16:47:11 GMT

No itemized bill? Are they kidding??? Do you have a collection on your accounts? Who is the collection agency?

No ticky, no washy so to speak.

Re: PFD for an OC? (apt manager fraud?)

Nectarine — Tue, 11 Mar 2008 17:01:22 GMT

I know! That's total craziness They're using an in-house attorney (last I checked), so not sure if that would be considered a CA...

Re: PFD for an OC? (apt manager fraud?)

fishbjc — Tue, 11 Mar 2008 17:12:21 GMT

So basically, this apt. manager is using a fly-by-night atty and trying to stick you with $1200 in undocumened fees? I'd LOVE to see this on Judge Judy!

Good thing you came to this forum,

Re: PFD for an OC? (apt manager fraud?)

iltph — Tue, 11 Mar 2008 17:17:45 GMT

I don't have time to read through your entire post, but in many states the landlord is required to give you an itemized bill within 30 days of when you moved out. When I lived in SC, I didn't know this and my landlord sent me a bill three months later for $1,500 (my security deposit was $500). I was always a clean/neat tenant and I don't think any of the charges she listed were justifiable. I never did anything and she didn't pursue charges. I was mostly just scared that if I disputed it, I would be out a lot more money than just my security deposit.

A few years later I learned that I could have gotten my entire security deposit back since she didn't get the list to me in the 30 days. This happened again with another landlord about four years later and when they sent me a bill for $1,000 I told them they didn't get the list to me in time and that I was going to take them to small claims court. Within a few days, I received a check for the entire amount of my security deposit. Man does it help to know the law!

Anyway, if you still have the charges that they sent you and it was sent after 30 days (if this is your state's law), then you may be able to avoid the charges altogether and have it deleted off your CR. Just wanted to share this info to help keep other people from getting screwed like I once did when I was in college.

Re: PFD for an OC? (apt manager fraud?)

fishbjc — Tue, 11 Mar 2008 17:37:58 GMT

When my son moved from his college apt., 4 of us went over the apt with a fine-tooth comb. We cleaned window tracks, windows, woodwork, inside of cabinets, stove, refrig., etc.

I also took photographs.

When he received a bill for *cleaning*, I sent them photo copies. Never heard from them again.

Re: PFD for an OC? (apt manager fraud?)

Anonymous — Tue, 11 Mar 2008 18:12:27 GMT

I have something similar on my CR. The only thing that may be in my favor is in the state of WA the landlord and tenant are required to do a walk thru, together, with both signatures. Never happened. I disputed with the CA and they will not send me anything. I believe they are trying to charge me for damage done to my daughter's apartment. I did pay her rent occasionally, but was not on the lease.

Re: PFD for an OC? (apt manager fraud?)

Anonymous — Tue, 11 Mar 2008 19:31:54 GMT

As a former Apartment Management Executive from CA, I can tell you that you certainly have rights to remedy this collection. CA law provides that the landlord must: 1. Notify you in writing at your last known address (usually certified mail) of his intent to "impose a claim" on your deposit within 20 days of your vacancy. This would also outline any additional charges. 2. Provide you with reciepts for any repairs over a certain amount (I believe it is now $100, but not sure). I can tell you that the courts almost ALWAYS side with the tenant in CA if you are prepared to address the causes in an educated manner. Do you still have a copy of your lease? Any witnesses? Although this collection will drop off within time, I would pursue this in a court of law and have it removed immediately. Contact your local legal services for some advice on getting this resolved. It is affecting your score, I assure you.

Re: PFD for an OC? (apt manager fraud?)

Nectarine — Tue, 11 Mar 2008 22:44:48 GMT

I found a recent EX CR, and the CA is listed as Kimball Tirey StJohn of San Diego (we lived in the bay area). So that may actually be a positive thing. It's listed as being from Nov 2006, so the apartment sold it immediately to a CA (within 6 weeks).

I'm not sure if I still have a copy of my lease (I'll be looking for it) and the only witnesses are the other people who lived there. Realistically I can't fight it in court in CA while living in WA (plus I don't have the money to do so). I just got an awesome job and don't want to hose it up by leaving for court.

They sent us a little letter that said "Oh by the way, you owe $490" a week or so after we moved out(normal delivery), but I don't believe that they ever sent anything specifically declaring an intent to take the deposit. They never sent anything that hinted that we could fight it or that we had any choice about the deposit.

It's definitely affecting my score, hehe. With the added bonus of making it impossible to find a new place to live.

I know apartment places use a different system that figures out if you're worthy to live there, is there any way to change the info on that? Or would that come off after it came of my CR?

Thanks for everyone's help! It has really helped a lot!

Re: PFD for an OC? (apt manager fraud?)

Anonymous — Tue, 11 Mar 2008 23:12:11 GMT

Other credit reporting agencies--

http://ficoforums.myfico.com/fico/board/message?board.id=generalcredit&message.id=11392&query.id=135996#M11392

Also, a great resource where you may get much more help on landlord/tenant issues is

http://www.askmehelpdesk.com/real-estate-law/

Message Edited by sidewinder on 03-11-2008 04:12 PM

Re: PFD for an OC? (apt manager fraud?)

Nectarine — Tue, 11 Mar 2008 23:26:49 GMT

Ooooh, thanks SideWinder!

I'll check those out!

~Griffin

Re: PFD for an OC? (apt manager fraud?)

Anonymous — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 15:59:20 GMT

KTS or Kimball, Tirey, St John are a powerful law firm that represents the Apartment Industry in CA. As an added measure, they do collections for a fee as well. The good news is that they will probably acknowledge a PAY FOR DELETE (PFD) once you bargain with them. Call their San Diego office, be sicky sweet nice and see if they can send you a copy of the "intent to impose a claim letter" from the file. Tell them that you sincerely wish to settle this so they will be motivated.

My guess is that when you moved, you did not give the owner a forwarding and/or perhaps a 30 day notice and he sent the certified claim to the "vacant" apartment, which is legal. If the owner did not send you the claim, KTS will drop the collection, I assure you.

As far as your background...there are several companies that specialize in "Landlord Background Investigations". They draw their data directly from the CRA's and then mash it into their own reporting system. The criterion is usually set by the landlord, such as: no more than 2 - 30 day lates on all acounts, no evictions (unlawful detainers) at least 3 active accounts, no housing related collections, etc. You are going to definately want to have this collection removed. Not only will renting be an issue if they pull from the reporting CRA, but house buying will be very difficult. Call them today.

Re: PFD for an OC? (apt manager fraud?)

Nectarine — Wed, 20 Jan 2010 09:21:12 GMT

I just wanted to give a quick update on the situation. Wow, I never realized just how epic my original post was!

This is still listed on my CR, but has since passed the SOL point for my girlfriend and I. So now, let's just say the CA is SOL as well.

A month before the SOL was up, I finally got a packet from KTSJ to "validate/verify" the account. What was in it?

Their "original letter" that was NOT within the 30-day timeline by law
The "itemized" list of charges which was not itemized
A note from them wagging their finger at me and saying that was all the info they had on the account

I typed up a massive letter to them stating my case, but in the end I didn't send it. Why bother? I was/am tired of being jerked around by these idiots.

I didn't hide but I didn't back down, either. They could have filed suit but they had literally no case, and no documents to back it up.

The real kicker? The "itemized" letter listed that they replaced carpet that was -1 (negative 1) days old, so they could charge me 100% of the replacement cost. That is FRAUD under any name -- a $1200 LIE!

Now that months have passed since the SOL, I feel very free to do damage control. I'm not willing to do a PFD with them, but I will try for a GW letter. I can also dispute with the CRAs, but so far it hasn't helped any. Side Note: I recommend not using MyFICO's dispute creator as it was less effective than me simply writing a letter to the CRAs. I'm preparing a BBB complaint against OC and CA as well, to hopefully put an end to this craziness.

Message Edited by Nectarine on 01-20-2010 01:21 AM