topic Re: Can a lender see a foreclosure even if it no longer shows up on reports we can access? in Mortgage Loans

Can a lender see a foreclosure even if it no longer shows up on reports we can access?

songsofexperience — Sat, 17 May 2014 23:10:27 GMT

Trying not to double post here (see thread in Rebuilding). Basically, I had a foreclosure, expected it to drop off in March, 2017, but it appears to be gone as of this month (was there last month).

I've been gearing up to app for a mortgage. Even if it's really gone from the reports I can pull, will a lender still see it? I know they can see waaaaay more than we do. The DOFD was March or April, 2010, but the foreclosure wasn't finalized until April, 2012 so I'm technically only 2 years out from the foreclosure action.

Re: Can a lender see a foreclosure even if it no longer shows up on reports we can access?

cem13 — Sat, 17 May 2014 23:39:08 GMT

You may not see it but Freddie and Fannie can see it. NEVER LIE and this is fraud and if you are caught, your mother will bring your birthday cake to prision for you.

The uniform mortgage application asks "Have you filed bancruptcy or had a foreclosure, deed in leiu, or short sale in the past 7 years?" This is a serious violation and the Federal Procecutors have been aggressive lately.

Re: Can a lender see a foreclosure even if it no longer shows up on reports we can access?

songsofexperience — Sat, 17 May 2014 23:43:55 GMT

I wasn't even considering lying, but point taken. No, I mean, when I app I'd even want to say, look, I had a foreclosure, but it's not on my file anymore. I was more curious because I know lenders can see stuff from years and years ago.

Re: Can a lender see a foreclosure even if it no longer shows up on reports we can access?

TimeToRecover — Sun, 18 May 2014 01:08:08 GMT

I am just curious. They ask if within 7 years do they not look at records older then 7 years? Im asking on this one for when I go to refinance I will be going conventional to get out of the PMI, I am far enough out of the foreclosure for FHA but just short for conventional. But I could handle the PMI for a few extra years to 1 ensure I am over the 20% equity and to not have to explain the foreclosure if after 7 years it is irrelevent.

Re: Can a lender see a foreclosure even if it no longer shows up on reports we can access?

MaddMatter70 — Sun, 18 May 2014 03:19:21 GMT

Yes they can, especially if it was FHA, VA, or USDA. They will search for it as well through court records for conventional

Re: Can a lender see a foreclosure even if it no longer shows up on reports we can access?

songsofexperience — Sun, 18 May 2014 16:53:22 GMT

It was a conventional loan. I'm assuming its on record with the courts and it's not something I would fail to disclose when applying, but I'm wondering if I'll actually be treated differently if it's no longer on my CR or if they'll just say, "well, you did have a foreclosure and even though it's no longer on your report, we're going to treat it as though it is."

I mean, for regular credit pulls, its probably great that its gone, but is there any advantage to me when it comes to mortgage applications? I've just never heard of a foreclosure being removed 3 years early. I don't know what to think.

Re: Can a lender see a foreclosure even if it no longer shows up on reports we can access?

ezdriver — Sun, 18 May 2014 17:12:20 GMT

Foreclosures are public records. As such, it stays in your county records for a very long time ... maybe even permanently. It may not show up on your credit report but it will be in the public record which every lender will check. Why don't you go check your county's public record?

Re: Can a lender see a foreclosure even if it no longer shows up on reports we can access?

songsofexperience — Sun, 18 May 2014 17:38:38 GMT

Alas I now live 1300 miles away from where it all happened and the court doesn't seem to do online records. If they are public records why has it never shown up on the "public records" section of my CRs? It's always just appeared in the "Accounts" section. I think it was a judicial foreclosure so I'm sure the records are there. I'll see what I can did up this week.

Re: Can a lender see a foreclosure even if it no longer shows up on reports we can access?

MaddMatter70 — Sun, 18 May 2014 17:46:51 GMT

The rules for conventional foreclosure to conventional mortgage are traditionally 7 years. That is from the conclusion of the process I think. Like I said I am no expert but I would just be up front about it and see what they say. No harm in asking.

Re: Can a lender see a foreclosure even if it no longer shows up on reports we can access?

StartingOver10 — Mon, 19 May 2014 00:44:32 GMT

@songsofexperience wrote:
Alas I now live 1300 miles away from where it all happened and the court doesn't seem to do online records. If they are public records why has it never shown up on the "public records" section of my CRs? It's always just appeared in the "Accounts" section. I think it was a judicial foreclosure so I'm sure the records are there. I'll see what I can did up this week.

It is in the property tax records. Click on the address and then the deed showing the transfer from you back to the bank. In my area those deeds are called CT's (Certificate of Title). You can also see it under the Clerk of Courts under your personal name you will see the f/c action and the final judgment.

The public records section of your credit report is very hit or miss. That's why title companies and attorney's and lenders pull public records rather than relying on the credit report.

Re: Can a lender see a foreclosure even if it no longer shows up on reports we can access?

songsofexperience — Mon, 19 May 2014 02:21:00 GMT

Thank you StartingOver10.

I finally found the the online deed records. Yeesh, that was depressing.

So even though the DOFD was March, 2010, the Intent to Foreclose is dated 2/17/12.

The Deed Foreclosure is dated 5/29/12.

The Judgment is dated 7/31/13.

So if these are public records, how long do they stay on file? I mean, in 10 years presumably a lender could look up the public records. Is there a timeframe after which they're meant to disregard?

I'm also wondering about the dates of everything since this indicates the judgement was 7/13 yet on my CRs the date of Foreclosure was always listed as 4/12.

I'll still need to wait until the 3 years is up or have a good LoX if I want to pursue USDA or FHA (and I did have extenuating circumstances and the lender also refused to work with me on a modification), but I've known that so it really doesn't change anything for me in that regard. I still think it very odd that it's just gone from my CRs . . . .

Re: Can a lender see a foreclosure even if it no longer shows up on reports we can access?

StartingOver10 — Mon, 19 May 2014 03:50:02 GMT

As far as I am aware the public records are there forever, there is no SOL for listing of the public record.

It is weird that the Foreclosure Deed is 5/29/2012 and the Final Judgment is 7/31/2013.

Look closely at that deed - is that the deed that conveys the property from you back to the bank? If so, that would be the date that the 'clock starts' for determining your eligibility for a new mortgage loan.

Re: Can a lender see a foreclosure even if it no longer shows up on reports we can access?

songsofexperience — Mon, 19 May 2014 14:13:13 GMT

So I looked through the documents I've received.

1) Notice of Default and Right to Foreclose - 12/12/11

2) Summons and Complaint for Declatory Judgment/Quiet Title - 3/8/13

3) Notice of Request for Default Judgment on #2 - 4/30/13 (seems I never actually got the final judgment papers)

That said, #2 was ONLY brought about because the description of the property was incorrect when I purchased it and so there was a cloud on the title. What they asked for in #2 was to "reform the legal descriptions effective as of the orginal date of recording on June 22, 2007 (the date I closed on the property) and legal descriptions contained in the Foreclosure Deed, effective May 29, 2012." They also asked that the court, "Enter an Order Validating the Foreclosure Deed and affirming plaintiff (lender) is the owner of the property." Again, I think this was so they could try to sell it.

Included in all the exhibits is a "Foreclosure Deed Under Power of Sale in Mortgage" dated 3/29/12. This is when the lender "bought" the property at auction. There's an Affidavit of Sale Under Power of Sale in Mortgage date 4/19/12 that basically states they posted the sale in the newspaper 4 times as required by law.

They also claim to have offered mortgage counseling services (this is required by the State of RI), but I never received such an offer and, in fact, tried for over a year to get them to help me, but that's beside the point.

SO . . . it seems to me that the Deed of Foreclosure is 3/29/12. The only reason they went to court was because they needed to clear the title due to the incorrect description on my deed and couldn't try to sell the place until they had that.

I'm wondering then, if they went the sale route at auction if this was a non-judicial foreclosure since they don't seem to have gone to court to get the original Foreclosure?

I discovered last night that RI has a 10 year Deficiency Judgment so if this WAS a judicial foreclosure they have up to 10 years to come after me for the deficiency! This really freaks me out.

Since most states allow for deficiency judgments, how is it that FHA/USDA (or even conventional lenders) will give loans to those with foreclosures? Isn't there a risk that someone could get a new mortgage and then the original lender from the foreclosure could seek a deficiency judgment? I was reading horror stories about people being pursued 3-4 years after thinking the foreclosure was over!

As to why it's now gone for my CRs - I have no idea. It's been 7 years since I bought the property and if they "reformed" the description effective to June, 2007 maybe that's it, but it seems unlikely.

If the Deed of Foreclosure is the date I should go by for waiting to get a new loan, that's March, 2012 so 2 years and 2 months. It's been 3 years and 2 months since DOFD. None of the dates make sense in terms of explaining why it's gone unless, as I said before, they got the insurance payout and just crossed it off their books. I'm hoping, since they made an insurance claim, that they won't be coming after me for the deficiency.

What a mess this all is. It seems as though the big fly in the ointment was the incorrect legal description on MY deed back in 2007.

Thanks all for listening and for your advice!

Re: Can a lender see a foreclosure even if it no longer shows up on reports we can access?

StartingOver10 — Mon, 19 May 2014 18:00:51 GMT

You are right, the date of 3/28/12 is the date that you should be concerned about - the date the clock starts.

The Quiet Title action is usually used in just the type of circumstances you describe (plus other types). The Quiet Title action ought to have no bearing at all on the start date for you.

The 10 yr time period to bring a deficiency judgment is a long time. I have noticed that some states have gone back and changed this though - so check recent statutes to see if your state has modified the time period. I am also noticing that the servicers are selling off the deficiency judgments to collections agents to persue.

Remember, you will recover from this. In fact it already has been more than two years since the sale. Don't put your life on hold. You will get through this. Many of us have been down this road.