topic Re: Quesiton about 7 year deletion. in Rebuilding Your Credit

Quesiton about 7 year deletion.

Anonymous — Sat, 24 Apr 2010 20:07:35 GMT

I pulled my CR today and im confused about this collection:

Lvnv Funding Llc

Status as of Apr, 2010

Date opened Sep, 2006

Date of last activity Jun, 2003

Loan type Factoring Company Account

I don't get this account. Date of last activity has been longer than 7 years, yet its still here. What can i do about this?

Thanks!

Re: Quesiton about 7 year deletion.

Anonymous — Sat, 24 Apr 2010 20:17:03 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I pulled my CR today and im confused about this collection:

Lvnv Funding Llc
Status as of Apr, 2010

Date opened Sep, 2006
Date of last activity Jun, 2003
Loan type Factoring Company Account

I don't get this account. Date of last activity has been longer than 7 years, yet its still here. What can i do about this?

Thanks!

Hello and welcome to the forums.

DOLA is not what you need. DOFD (Date of First Delinquency) is what is used to determine removal dates.

Here is how and when derogs drop from you CR, and are thus no longer included in FICO scoring.

Monthly delinquencies under an OC account drop at 7 years from their individual date of delinquency. The date of first delinquency (DOFD) has nothing to do with these drop-off dates. They drop from their own individual dates. So look at each prior OC reported monthly derog date, and simply add 7 years.

If the OC subsequently reports their account as a charge off, that is a totally different and additional post to your CR. Their post as a charge-off will remain in your CR for 7.5 years from the DOFD on the OC account, which is the first 30-day delinquency you had on the account, and disregards any later 60/90+ delinquencies that followed. That cannot be reset.

If the OC then refers the account for collection, and a CA posts to your CR, the drop-off date of their collection reporting is the same as that of a CO. It is 7.5 years from the same DOFD on the OC account, and the CA cannot reset this date.

From a BK years ago to:

9/09 EX pulled by lender 802
3/10 EQ- 800
4/10 TU -772

You can do the same thing with hard work

Credit Scoring 101
Common Abbreviations
Frequently Requested Threads
Credit Problems Which Is Worse?
Whats In Your FICO Score

Re: Quesiton about 7 year deletion.

Anonymous — Sat, 24 Apr 2010 21:02:04 GMT

Thanks for the reply!

The OC ( Sears ) has it as a charge off account. ( Paid out date Jun 2003 ). Neither account has delinquencies listed ( 0 , 0 , 0 )

Date of last activity is the same, Jun 2003.

Based on this, and the fact that there is no deliquencies dates, shouldn't the account be deleted already?

Re: Quesiton about 7 year deletion.

Anonymous — Sat, 24 Apr 2010 22:51:09 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Thanks for the reply!

The OC ( Sears ) has it as a charge off account. ( Paid out date Jun 2003 ). Neither account has delinquencies listed ( 0 , 0 , 0 )

Date of last activity is the same, Jun 2003.

Based on this, and the fact that there is no deliquencies dates, shouldn't the account be deleted already?

Are you saying that there were no 30, 60, 90, 120 day lates, etc. leading up to the charge off? I've never heard of a CO without preceeding monthly delinquencies but there is a lot I still don't know and probably never will.

If by sheer coincidence the DOLA and the DOFD happen to be the same (6/2003) then this should be removed about 12/2010.

I'm sure I'll be gently corrected if I'm in error.

Re: Quesiton about 7 year deletion.

moondog7324 — Sat, 24 Apr 2010 23:05:20 GMT

7 yrs. from Jun 2003 would be Jun 2010- that is in the near future.

Re: Quesiton about 7 year deletion.

Anonymous — Sat, 24 Apr 2010 23:33:11 GMT

OMG. I fail @ Math . My bad, i jumped the gun too quick on this one.

This brings another question though: I recently got pre-approved for a mortage loan, ( strangly, they didnt do a Hard pull since i have no inquiries fromt this lender ), they will probrably ask me to pay this collection.

Is it advisable to do a "pre-emp" move and try to offer a PFD to get this take caren before closing ( i am borline for the loan )?

If i do contact the CA, do i risk getting the activity date reset, hence doing more damage than good? I kind of concerned because my CR is borderline for the FHA loan.

Re: Quesiton about 7 year deletion.

moondog7324 — Sat, 24 Apr 2010 23:48:27 GMT

Is the 'pre- approval' legit? I believe if it's a conventional loan the charge off will have to be paid- it probally won't improve your score. FHA probally will not require it to be paid off. I find it hard to believe that you qualify for a loan but are borderline FHA approval.

PS- don't worry about your math skills- after reading your post I had to double check a calender to make sure we are not in 2011.

Re: Quesiton about 7 year deletion.

Anonymous — Sun, 25 Apr 2010 03:38:24 GMT

@moondog7324 wrote:
7 yrs. from Jun 2003 would be Jun 2010- that is in the near future.

The OP said this is a CO not an individual delinquency. Removal time for a CO or collection is 7.5 years from DOFD. If the 6/2003 date is truly the DOFD I stand by my statement that is will be gone in 12/2010.

Re: Quesiton about 7 year deletion.

RobertEG — Sun, 25 Apr 2010 05:03:25 GMT

While it is rare for a CO or CA to be reported without prior reporting of monthly delinquencies on the OC account, it is possible.

An OC is not required to report monthly delinquencies prior to reporting a CO or CA.

DOFD can still be determined in one or two ways. First, your account records and statements are your legal proof of date of first delinquency.

Second, when a CO or CA is reported, the furnisher of the information is required to provide the DOFD to the CRA within 90-days of reporting the CO or CA, thus ensuring that the CRA has a date to determine OC or CA drop off date. FCRA 623(a)(5).

In your case, your DOFD was almost certainly prior to 6/2003. Date of positing of the CO and DOLA my be the same,but no one does a charge off on the date of first account delinquency. I would bet that your DOFD is probably in early 2003.

The FCRA has full provision for recordation of your DOFD in your credit file, and for determining when the 7 1/2 years period has tollled. If the CRA fails to do this, they are in violation of FCRA 605(a).

Re: Quesiton about 7 year deletion.

Anonymous — Sun, 25 Apr 2010 05:43:02 GMT

Robert: So basically, the CRA should automatically remove the account when that time comes, without my intervetion. Assuming a 90 day deliquency period, that would put the DOFD at around 03/2003. Thus i would expect the item to be deleted late this year right?

Moon: Its not a convetional loan, the pre-approve was for a FHA loan. My scores are TU: 627 EQF: 637 XPR: 607. I believe FHA requirements are 620, using your middle score. I am afraid that since they did not do a hard pull yet, ( other banks did, since i was shopping around online ( first inquiry 08/04/2010 )but ultimately went with the Rea State loan officer ) when they do at closing time, that pull will drop my score below the limit.

I just pulled my reports and some of the items are not correct: ( i have a old paid off account with 0 balance but with a scheduled payment of $10, which shows as past due. I have another closed account listed as currently 30 days past due dated back in 2004 ). Will i risk having my score dropped if i were to dispute these errors? or since they are so old, it doesnt affect my score that much?

Thanks for all the help so far.

Re: Quesiton about 7 year deletion.

RobertEG — Sun, 25 Apr 2010 05:58:34 GMT

Exactly. FCRA 605(a) is a legal requirement imposed on the CRAs. It is their duty to monitor and comply.

The only problem is that the date they use to calcualte drop off is only as good as the data provided them.

It relies on proper reporting compliance of the DOFD under FCRA 623(a)(5).

If you want to determine the FCRA 623(a)(5) date in your CR, and compare it with your own records to determine its correctnes, you can file a request under FCRA 609(a)(1) for "all information in the consumer's credit file." This request requires payment of the fee set forth in FCRA 612(f), which is currently $10.50.

Re: Quesiton about 7 year deletion.

LIGHTNIN — Sun, 25 Apr 2010 12:46:01 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Robert: So basically, the CRA should automatically remove the account when that time comes, without my intervetion. Assuming a 90 day deliquency period, that would put the DOFD at around 03/2003. Thus i would expect the item to be deleted late this year right?

Moon: Its not a convetional loan, the pre-approve was for a FHA loan. My scores are TU: 627 EQF: 637 XPR: 607. I believe FHA requirements are 620, using your middle score. I am afraid that since they did not do a hard pull yet, ( other banks did, since i was shopping around online ( first inquiry 08/04/2010 )but ultimately went with the Rea State loan officer ) when they do at closing time, that pull will drop my score below the limit.

I just pulled my reports and some of the items are not correct: ( i have a old paid off account with 0 balance but with a scheduled payment of $10, which shows as past due. I have another closed account listed as currently 30 days past due dated back in 2004 ). Will i risk having my score dropped if i were to dispute these errors? or since they are so old, it doesnt affect my score that much?

Thanks for all the help so far.

Hi and Welcome to the forums

I would start another thread, with information about these other 2 items, that are incorrect on your CR's.

I can't answer your question about your score,because we would need to know other things like, is it is your oldest account.

FICO scoring looks at each item on your CR in a number of different ways.One item can hurt your score in a few ways, AND can help in a

few different ways.Confused yet??Everyone is at first,so just start reading and ask questions.There is many of us here and we can

explain the same thing many different ways.

If you want to know "What's in your FICO score" , look for that same title, by clicking on the blue Education tap at the top.

Also check out the board Understanding FICO Scoring.....Have a fun time reading.

Re: Quesiton about 7 year deletion.

Anonymous — Sun, 25 Apr 2010 19:24:54 GMT

Robert:

I pulled my Experian CR today and to my surprise it shows that the deletion date of this account is scheduled to be deleted until Sep 2012.

All tihs doesn't make sense to me, wonder if there some kind of shady reaging going on here.

Re: Quesiton about 7 year deletion.

Anonymous — Sun, 25 Apr 2010 21:11:03 GMT

@RobertEG wrote:
While it is rare for a CO or CA to be reported without prior reporting of monthly delinquencies on the OC account, it is possible.
An OC is not required to report monthly delinquencies prior to reporting a CO or CA.
DOFD can still be determined in one or two ways. First, your account records and statements are your legal proof of date of first delinquency.
Second, when a CO or CA is reported, the furnisher of the information is required to provide the DOFD to the CRA within 90-days of reporting the CO or CA, thus ensuring that the CRA has a date to determine OC or CA drop off date. FCRA 623(a)(5).

In your case, your DOFD was almost certainly prior to 6/2003. Date of positing of the CO and DOLA my be the same,but no one does a charge off on the date of first account delinquency. I would bet that your DOFD is probably in early 2003.

The FCRA has full provision for recordation of your DOFD in your credit file, and for determining when the 7 1/2 years period has tollled. If the CRA fails to do this, they are in violation of FCRA 605(a).

This must be very rare indeed. The post of the OP regarding this is the first I've seen here. I'm curious if anyone else has had a CO or collection placed in their file without prior monthly delinquencies being posted first. This is an interesting exception.

Re: Quesiton about 7 year deletion.

Anonymous — Mon, 26 Apr 2010 04:58:34 GMT

The continuing til Sep 2012 makes me think that the account closed in 2002 and the chargeoff was later - sounds like it's going to turn positive shortly and then help you for another 2 years. Am I wrong? Is there an entry that says when it will turn into a positive account?

Re: Quesiton about 7 year deletion.

RobertEG — Mon, 26 Apr 2010 06:02:52 GMT

It is really kinda simple.

Collect all of your account records with the OC (Sears) before the CO or the CA.

Find the last chain of monthly account delinquencies on the open OC account, whether or not they were reported to a CRA. . Find the one date that you first went delinquent on the OC account in that chain. That is your legal DOFD, and controls the drop off date of both the subsequent CO and CA at 7 1/2 years from that date.

Congress spent months of time back in 1998, and then enacted a revision to the FCRA to make it crystal clear that there is only one date-certain that controls CO and CA removal. It is your DOFD. FCRA 605(c).

Dont rely on what a CRA tells you is your DOFD, Rely on your account records.

In your case, if the OC did a CO back in 6/2003, once again, your DOFD had to have preceded that by several months.

The date of CO or reporting of a CA is irrelevant to your DOFD, and cannot ever reset it.

DOFD's entered into your credit file depend upon reporting of accurate information. Such reporting is entered by clerks, and is notoriously inaccarate.

How does a DOFD get into your credit file? Hopefully, OCs will initially provide it when they first report any delinquency on your open account with them. Do they accurately report or update? No. They have the provision of entry of your "FCRA Compliance Date/DOFD" into base segament, field code 25 of your OC account file. But this is not required, and many, even though they report a delinquency, dont update the FCRA Compliance Date, so it might not be in the OC account segment of your credit file. And it certaily wont if the OC never reported delinquencies prior to doing CO or referral to a CA. Since your DOFD has absolutely no credit reporting relevance until a CO of CA is reported, it is not a big deal until then.

Congress was not ignorant of this possibility when they enacted the FCRA. That is the entire reason for inclusion of FCRA 623(a)(5), which requries anyone posting a CO or CA to provide the DOFD to the CRA within 90-days of any such posting. Reason: the CRAs need a date upon which to calculate the 7 1/2 drop off date set forth in FCRA 605(c). And it also gives you a date to compare its accuracy against, using your own account records. If it were a perfect world, and everyone reported correctly to the CRAs, this would be simple. But they dont always, or maybe not even usually, report correctly.

Most commercial credit reports you obtain dont go to the level of providing the reported FCRA 623(a)(5) date. But FCRA 609(a)(1) gives you the authority to demand this from the CRA, by paying the fee set forth in FCRA 612(f), which is curretly $10.50. That is the legal process of how you verify the accuracy of the requried 7 1/2 year drop off date set forth in FCRA 605(c).

Re: Quesiton about 7 year deletion.

Anonymous — Mon, 26 Apr 2010 18:32:28 GMT

Robert: Awesome post, Thanks!

Now just one last thing if you may, how would i go about formaly requesting FCRA 609(a)(1). I don't see anything related to that on any of CRA's website, just the normal report that i already have via myFico. Do i have to request that in writing and send it to all the CRA's?