topic Re: Collection Agency Using Date they Purchased Account as Date Account Opened in Rebuilding Your Credit

Collection Agency Using Date they Purchased Account as Date Account Opened

Anonymous — Fri, 02 Jul 2010 15:40:19 GMT

I have a collection from RJM Acquisitions listed on my EX and TU reports. It shows that the account was opened 5/08. The original creditor is Doubleday Book Club. The account was opened on 11/04 and was delinquent on 4/06. Is the CA allowed to report the date they purchased the account as the date the account opened? This is making an old debt newer. Seems like re-aging to me. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know.

BTW: RJM sent me a notice of dispute (I disputed the accuracy of the item with EX) which showed that they purchased the account in 08, and that it was opened in 04. This is one of two negs on my report (the other is a paid judgment from a car accident, not an unpaid account). It is only $85, and I will pay it. I just feel that it should be reflected accurately on my CR.

Re: Collection Agency Using Date they Purchased Account as Date Account Opened

Anonymous — Fri, 02 Jul 2010 16:20:39 GMT

The date opened is the date the CA received the account in their office and has no bearing on when an account will drop off.

It is the date reported that will cause a drop in score. Even if it was delinquent in 06 and they did not report it until 08 it is legal. Also, if the account was laying dormant on your CR for the past 4 years and you disputed it, it updated it to the current date making it look like a newer collection. That is also legal. It is also one of the major reasons disputing is not recommended.

Re: Collection Agency Using Date they Purchased Account as Date Account Opened

Anonymous — Fri, 02 Jul 2010 16:35:06 GMT

No, it hasn't been laying dormant. They update it EVERY MONTH. So disputing it did nothing to change anything. Thanks!

Re: Collection Agency Using Date they Purchased Account as Date Account Opened

Anonymous — Fri, 02 Jul 2010 17:41:45 GMT

I wasn't suggesting it had been laying dormant. I was just giving an example of how things work.

And unfortunately, they can update each month. Each month the current date is used making it look like a new collection.

Re: Collection Agency Using Date they Purchased Account as Date Account Opened

Anonymous — Fri, 02 Jul 2010 17:57:36 GMT

Wow, I did not know that. That is a load of crap that they can update every month and make it look like a new collection. Those scumbags have WAY too much power to screw peoples lives over.

Re: Collection Agency Using Date they Purchased Account as Date Account Opened

Anonymous — Fri, 02 Jul 2010 18:02:59 GMT

Are you sure it's not the 'Date Opened' field that counts against you?

Re: Collection Agency Using Date they Purchased Account as Date Account Opened

Anonymous — Fri, 02 Jul 2010 18:03:22 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Wow, I did not know that. That is a load of crap that they can update every month and make it look like a new collection. Those scumbags have WAY too much power to screw peoples lives over.

They truly do. Check out these articles from the Mpls. Star-Tribune:

http://www.startribune.com/investigators/95692619.html?elr=KArksi8D3PE7_8yc+D3aiUo8D3PE7_eyc+D3aiUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aULPQL7PQLanchO7DiUr

http://www.startribune.com/investigators/97231649.html?elr=KArksCiU6:5DiaPQEacyiUiacyKUnciaec8O7EyUs

It is truly important that people know their rights. This is the place I come to find and share knowledge. Knowledge is power!

Re: Collection Agency Using Date they Purchased Account as Date Account Opened

Anonymous — Fri, 02 Jul 2010 18:12:02 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Are you sure it's not the 'Date Opened' field that counts against you?

No, the date a CA opens an account means nothing and has no impact on your FICO score. It is the date reported (or status date) that can harm you.

Re: Collection Agency Using Date they Purchased Account as Date Account Opened

Anonymous — Fri, 02 Jul 2010 18:17:35 GMT

They are reporting the date that they purchased the account as the date opened. That's my point. It looks like the account is two years old when really it's six years old. And apparently that is legal. Just because it's legal, doesn't mean that it is ethical. Unfortunately, there are plenty of people out there that could care less. They figure, you owe it - pay it. In my case, this charge is from a book order that was sent to me which I refused. I didn't want the monthly selection and it was returned to Doubleday unopend as per their return policy. They chose to bill me for it anyways, and when I refused to pay it they added on about $65 for the remainder of my purchase agreement which required that I purchase so many books in such and so amount of time. They also didn't count the refused book that they were billing me for as one of those agreed upon purchases. I got screwed royally and rightfully (at least, in my mind) refused to pay. Eventually they wrote off the debt and sold it. So whatever - here we are. It is scheduled to come off my report next year anyways. I may pay it, but I may not.

Re: Collection Agency Using Date they Purchased Account as Date Account Opened

Anonymous — Fri, 02 Jul 2010 18:18:11 GMT

Wow, that is an outrage. That should be illegal. I have one that is updating every month on TU and they adamantly refuse PFD. Seriously this makes me furious. I guess I'm going to have to try and bait them into an FDCPA violation.

Re: Collection Agency Using Date they Purchased Account as Date Account Opened

Anonymous — Fri, 02 Jul 2010 19:47:55 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
They are reporting the date that they purchased the account as the date opened. That's my point. It looks like the account is two years old when really it's six years old. And apparently that is legal. Just because it's legal, doesn't mean that it is ethical. Unfortunately, there are plenty of people out there that could care less. They figure, you owe it - pay it. In my case, this charge is from a book order that was sent to me which I refused. I didn't want the monthly selection and it was returned to Doubleday unopend as per their return policy. They chose to bill me for it anyways, and when I refused to pay it they added on about $65 for the remainder of my purchase agreement which required that I purchase so many books in such and so amount of time. They also didn't count the refused book that they were billing me for as one of those agreed upon purchases. I got screwed royally and rightfully (at least, in my mind) refused to pay. Eventually they wrote off the debt and sold it. So whatever - here we are. It is scheduled to come off my report next year anyways. I may pay it, but I may not.

There is nothing incorrect or wrong in an account reporting that way. It is the day the CA bought or was assigned the account. There is also nothing unethical about it. Would it be more ethical for a CA to report they had an account 6 years before they actually did? A CA can only report from the day they received the account.

There will be an entry pertaining to the OC as to when it went to collections.

It is the date reported date that is going to impact your score.

Re: Collection Agency Using Date they Purchased Account as Date Account Opened

Anonymous — Fri, 02 Jul 2010 20:56:23 GMT

i'm srry Op but your only defense is to use a prior credit report that shows that they charged off the debt or that it went to collections prior to the date in '08 that is now being reported. This will raise a red flag and prove that one of the reports is an inaccuracy which will have the TL deleted. Ofcourse the inaccuracy would be the later report.

FCRA 605 (c) states:

I will try to break this down best i can.

(1) In general. The 7-year period referred to in paragraphs (4) and (6) ** of subsection (a) shall begin, with respect to any delinquent account that is placed for collection (internally or by referral to a third party, whichever is earlier), charged to profit and loss, or subjected to any similar action, upon the expiration of the 180-day period beginning on the date of the commencement of the delinquency which immediately preceded the collection activity, charge to profit and loss, or similar action.

the 7 year period is the reporting period ... after which the account drops off of your CR.

The main focus should be the 180 period after the delinquency which we call here dofd. The creditor must wait 180 days after the dofd before they can legally charge off a debt or send it into collections. This is why most of our more informed posters say 7 &1/2 years from dofd.

However if you read this law literally it states that they CAN charge it off or send it over to collections after the 180 day period not that they will or did immediately after the debt passed this "grace" period. Now do most of them do ... yeah sure they do they want to send it in to collections asap. However this does not mean that they did.

Once the debt has been charged off or sent to collections then and only then does the 7 year clock start. Hence

The 7-year period with respect to any delinquent account that is placed for collection (internally or by referral to a third party, whichever is earlier), charged to profit and loss, or subjected to any similar action. It literally does state the actual clock does not begin until one of the afforementioned negative actions was taken.

This is why if you have a copy of a previous credit report that shows that the account has been charged off or so prior this is your best defense. This would have proven that your creditors has furnished conflicting records in regard to the same acct and atleast one of them would have to be inaccurate.

(4) Accounts placed for collection or charged to profit and loss which antedate the report by more than seven years.(1) (5) Any other adverse item of information, other than records of convictions of crimes which antedates the report by more than seven years.1

The way I read this based on item (5) any late will stay on the report for up to seven years

Any acct sent to collections shall be dated since the initial charge off/ or when initially sent off to collections whichever happened earlier. This could explain why the month of drop off is never exactly 7&1/2 <EDIT>YEARS <EDIT> from the dofd.

edit note: said months before correction

Re: Collection Agency Using Date they Purchased Account as Date Account Opened

Anonymous — Fri, 02 Jul 2010 20:08:34 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
There is nothing incorrect or wrong in an account reporting that way. It is the day the CA bought or was assigned the account. There is also nothing unethical about it. Would it be more ethical for a CA to report they had an account 6 years before they actually did? A CA can only report from the day they received the account.

There will be an entry pertaining to the OC as to when it went to collections.

It is the date reported date that is going to impact your score.

Actually, I never opened an account with them in 2008, so yes this is dishonest. And does in fact make it appear as if it is a newer debt that what it is. You have a right to believe what you want... And I have the right to disagree with you.

Re: Collection Agency Using Date they Purchased Account as Date Account Opened

Anonymous — Fri, 02 Jul 2010 20:26:05 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
i'm srry Op but your only defense is to use a prior credit report that shows that they charged off the debt or that it went to collections prior to the date in '08 that is now being reported. This will raise a red flag and prove that one of the reports is an inaccuracy which will have the TL deleted. Ofcourse the inaccuracy would be the later report.

FCRA 605 (c) states:

I will try to break this down best i can.

(c) Running of reporting period.
(1) In general. The 7-year period referred to in paragraphs (4) and (6) ** of subsection (a) shall begin, with respect to any delinquent account that is placed for collection (internally or by referral to a third party, whichever is earlier), charged to profit and loss, or subjected to any similar action, upon the expiration of the 180-day period beginning on the date of the commencement of the delinquency which immediately preceded the collection activity, charge to profit and loss, or similar action.

the 7 year period is the reporting period ... after which the account drops off of your CR.

The main focus should be the 180 period after the delinquency which we call here dofd. The creditor must wait 180 days after the dofd before they can legally charge off a debt or send it into collections. This is why most of our more informed posters say 7 &1/2 years from dofd.

However if you read this law literally it states that they CAN charge it off or send it over to collections after the 180 day period not that they will or did immediately after the debt passed this "grace" period. Now do most of them do ... yeah sure they do they want to send it in to collections asap. However this does not mean that they did.

Once the debt has been charged off or sent to collections then and only then does the 7 year clock start. Hence

The 7-year period with respect to any delinquent account that is placed for collection (internally or by referral to a third party, whichever is earlier), charged to profit and loss, or subjected to any similar action. It literally does state the actual clock does not begin until one of the afforementioned negative actions was taken.

This is why if you have a copy of a previous credit report that shows that the account has been charged off or so prior this is your best defense. This would have proven that your creditors has furnished conflicting records in regard to the same acct and atleast one of them would have to be inaccurate.

(4) Accounts placed for collection or charged to profit and loss which antedate the report by more than seven years.(1) (5) Any other adverse item of information, other than records of convictions of crimes which antedates the report by more than seven years.1

The way I read this based on item (5) any late will stay on the report for up to seven years

Any acct sent to collections shall be dated since the initial charge off/ or when initially sent off to collections whichever happened earlier. This could explain why the month of drop off is never exactly 7&1/2 months from the dofd.

It is scheduled to drop off my report in 2011, so obviously they are correctly reporting the dofd. My problem with it is that I was denied credit due to "recent collection activity". There is nothing recent about this account other than the way it is being reported. Also, I am going off of my free credit report from annualcreditreport.com - I don't even know if potential creditors see the same info I see. It is definitely not worth fighting over. I was just curious about what the law says.

Re: Collection Agency Using Date they Purchased Account as Date Account Opened

Anonymous — Fri, 02 Jul 2010 20:54:12 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

It is scheduled to drop off my report in 2011, so obviously they are correctly reporting the dofd. My problem with it is that I was denied credit due to "recent collection activity". There is nothing recent about this account other than the way it is being reported. Also, I am going off of my free credit report from annualcreditreport.com - I don't even know if potential creditors see the same info I see. It is definitely not worth fighting over. I was just curious about what the law says.

I said accurate to the month not to the year.

and when a charge off is made it's a tax credit it guarantees a certain amount of the risk will be written off. It guarentees the creditor will not lose 100% of the bad debt. Collections is to try and get the rest of the debt. This is why the charge off take place right after the 180 grace period it offers a guarantee without any further expenses that atleast some of the debt can be recouped.

My point was never that they never accurately reported the dofd. It was that it was not the only factor concerning the 7 year reporting period. If you're gonna shoot me down atleast read and understand what I said.

as mentioned before if the collection is not paid IT IS common practice for the CA to rereport it up until the end of the 7 year period... period. The report is probably what they ment as recent collection activity.

Re: Collection Agency Using Date they Purchased Account as Date Account Opened

Anonymous — Fri, 02 Jul 2010 21:04:02 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:

It is scheduled to drop off my report in 2011, so obviously they are correctly reporting the dofd. My problem with it is that I was denied credit due to "recent collection activity". There is nothing recent about this account other than the way it is being reported. Also, I am going off of my free credit report from annualcreditreport.com - I don't even know if potential creditors see the same info I see. It is definitely not worth fighting over. I was just curious about what the law says.

I said accurate to the month not to the year.

and when a charge off is made it's a tax credit it guarantees a certain amount of the risk will be written off. It guarentees the creditor will not lose 100% of the bad debt. Collections is to try and get the rest of the debt. This is why the charge off take place right after the 180 grace period it offers a guarantee without any further expenses that atleast some of the debt can be recouped.

My point was never that they never accurately reported the dofd. It was that it was not the only factor concerning the 7 year reporting period. If you're gonna shoot me down atleast read and understand what I said.
as mentioned before if the collection is not paid IT IS common practice for the CA to rereport it up until the end of the 7 year period... period. The report is probably what they ment as recent collection activity.

My point was that it was not an issue with dofd or when the item was dropping off. That part is correct. It was the date account opened I had a problem with. I guess it's all just semantics and interpretation. I tried to read that FCRA, but all I got was a headache. I just can't wrap my brain around that legalese.

Re: Collection Agency Using Date they Purchased Account as Date Account Opened

Anonymous — Fri, 02 Jul 2010 21:08:22 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
There is nothing incorrect or wrong in an account reporting that way. It is the day the CA bought or was assigned the account. There is also nothing unethical about it. Would it be more ethical for a CA to report they had an account 6 years before they actually did? A CA can only report from the day they received the account.

There will be an entry pertaining to the OC as to when it went to collections.

It is the date reported date that is going to impact your score.

Actually, I never opened an account with them in 2008, so yes this is dishonest. And does in fact make it appear as if it is a newer debt that what it is. You have a right to believe what you want... And I have the right to disagree with you.

You are correct. You did not open the account with them. The OC did. And the CA reported that to the CRAs. Nothing illegal about that.

Yes, you certainly can disagree with me. But what I say is not of opinion, it is fact.

Re: Collection Agency Using Date they Purchased Account as Date Account Opened

Anonymous — Fri, 02 Jul 2010 21:15:55 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
There is nothing incorrect or wrong in an account reporting that way. It is the day the CA bought or was assigned the account. There is also nothing unethical about it. Would it be more ethical for a CA to report they had an account 6 years before they actually did? A CA can only report from the day they received the account.

There will be an entry pertaining to the OC as to when it went to collections.

It is the date reported date that is going to impact your score.

Actually, I never opened an account with them in 2008, so yes this is dishonest. And does in fact make it appear as if it is a newer debt that what it is. You have a right to believe what you want... And I have the right to disagree with you.
You are correct. You did not open the account with them. The OC did. And the CA reported that to the CRAs. Nothing illegal about that.
Yes, you certainly can disagree with me. But what I say is not of opinion, it is fact.

You are correct that it is a fact that it is not illegal. But it is your opinion that it is ethical. FYI

Re: Collection Agency Using Date they Purchased Account as Date Account Opened

Anonymous — Fri, 02 Jul 2010 21:18:42 GMT

And this sniping back and forth is making this board less and less usful. I asked for a statement of fact, got it. I stated my opinion and you told me my opinion was incorrect and that your opinion was not an opinion at all but was fact. Just to recap. Have a nice day secure in you rightousness and correctness. I now know who to ask when I need the "factual opinion".

Re: Collection Agency Using Date they Purchased Account as Date Account Opened

Anonymous — Fri, 02 Jul 2010 21:19:48 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:

It is scheduled to drop off my report in 2011, so obviously they are correctly reporting the dofd. My problem with it is that I was denied credit due to "recent collection activity". There is nothing recent about this account other than the way it is being reported. Also, I am going off of my free credit report from annualcreditreport.com - I don't even know if potential creditors see the same info I see. It is definitely not worth fighting over. I was just curious about what the law says.

In all honesty sommery, THIS is all you need to be concerned with. If you have this on your current credit report the CRA is stating given all the information furnished this is the date when the item is expected to drop off. Keep this report for your records. By the way get the detailed report from one of the CRA's if you haven't becuase this will have their stamp on it and will be legally binding.

If anything changes on your report from here on out you can always go back to This month's report as proof that an inaccuracy has been stated.

I was only attempting to explain the factors that go into creating That date, i apologize if it was confusing I never meant to confuse you.