topic HELP with DV Letter - Send documentation? in Rebuilding Your Credit

HELP with DV Letter - Send documentation?

Anonymous — Mon, 02 Aug 2010 13:42:41 GMT

Here's the quick background:

DirecTV alleges we owe them $400 on an old account. They are crazy because when we closed the account a few years back, there was no balance. Then, this mysterious non-itemized $400 bill started showing up a few months later. We have always refused to pay and when we request additional information, we get generic, unhelpful responses. They literally cannot tell us what the $400 is for.

I sent a DV letter to the CA that now has the DirecTV debt on 06/09/2010. I received no response and was preparing to send a follow-up. However, I stumbled across an old file from this issue that contains a statement from DirecTV showing the zero balance from when we closed the account.

So here's my question - how should I proceed? Is the DV follow-up the way to go? Should I do something with this old statement showing the zero balance? Include it in the letter? Send a letter to DirecTV directly? I feel like it's darn close to "proof" that we owe nothing on this account.

Re: HELP with DV Letter - Send documentation?

Anonymous — Mon, 02 Aug 2010 13:59:24 GMT

I would contact DirectTv again and let them know you have the proof that you owe nothing on the account. Tell them you would like them to recall the account from the CA unless they can prove otherwise.

See what they say before doing anything else with the CA. They don't have a time limit to respond to a DV, they can't continue collection activity until they do.

Re: HELP with DV Letter - Send documentation?

Anonymous — Mon, 02 Aug 2010 14:00:20 GMT

Yeah alot of us are getting confused as to what a DV actually does. There is an original creditor, a balance reported on the creditor's account, and a debt collector. All the debt collector's responsibility is is to state the original creditor and the balance owed plus any incurred fees due to your state law but that has nothing to do with the point.

When they supply you with this little bit of information they have done their job even if the amount should not have been charged to you in the first place that is outside of the CA's control and should not be taken up with the CA. All they have to prove is that there was an existing balance with a creditor that they now have the right to collect on.

A dv at best may or may not get a certain CA to back off but that will have nothing to do with what you are claiming. However do not be suprised if it comes back verified and there is no way for you to get them to cease collection activity because the error is on the behalf of the party responsible for the original account not the CA.

Your issue is an arbritrational issue and should be taken up with the likes of your states AG, or the ftc and at worse small claims (I just make sure that you include all the expenses you incurred to take matters to court i.e missed work time whatever). Especially if you have the records to show that the account was closed with a zero balance and the fees occured after the fact. You definately have a winning case but you are going through the wrong channels.

Re: HELP with DV Letter - Send documentation?

Anonymous — Mon, 02 Aug 2010 14:03:00 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Yeah alot of us are getting confused as to what a DV actually does. There is an original creditor, a balance reported on the creditor's account, and a debt collector. All the debt collector's responsibility is is to state the original creditor and the balance owed plus any incurred fees due to your state law but that has nothing to do with the point.

When they supply you with this little bit of information they have done their job even if the amount should not have been charged to you in the first place that is outside of the CA's control and should not be taken up with the CA. All they have to prove is that there was an existing balance with a creditor that they now have the right to collect on.

A dv at best may or may not get a certain CA to back off but that will have nothing to do with what you are claiming. However do not be suprised if it comes back verified and there is no way for you to get them to cease collection activity because the error is on the behalf of the party responsible for the original account not the CA.

Your issue is an arbritrational issue and should be taken up with the likes of your states AG, or the ftc and at worse small claims (I just make sure that you include all the expenses you incurred to take matters to court i.e missed work time whatever). Especially if you have the records to show that the account was closed with a zero balance and the fees occured after the fact. You definately have a winning case but you are going through the wrong channels.

They only have to provide that information if you dispute the debt or specifically ask for the OC. Otherwise, all they have to tell you is who is currently collecting and how much.

Re: HELP with DV Letter - Send documentation?

Anonymous — Mon, 02 Aug 2010 14:15:32 GMT

I appreciate the reply.

All prior communications with DirecTV to "dispute" this balance were done over the phone, which obviously is not the best method. Before I decide to take any drastic measures, I would like to at least send them a formal letter enclosing the zero balance statement asking them to explain the alleged debt and remove the balance, stop reporting to CBs, etc. Any suggestions on templates or strategy for this letter to the OC (DirecTV)??

Re: HELP with DV Letter - Send documentation?

Anonymous — Mon, 02 Aug 2010 14:19:50 GMT

I would just send them a letter telling them a CA is trying to collect on a closed account with no balance. Provide a copy of what you have.

You pretty much said exactly what you need to say. Send it to the CEO.

Re: HELP with DV Letter - Send documentation?

Anonymous — Mon, 02 Aug 2010 14:24:09 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I appreciate the reply.

All prior communications with DirecTV to "dispute" this balance were done over the phone, which obviously is not the best method. Before I decide to take any drastic measures, I would like to at least send them a formal letter enclosing the zero balance statement asking them to explain the alleged debt and remove the balance, stop reporting to CBs, etc. Any suggestions on templates or strategy for this letter to the OC (DirecTV)??

You have nothing to risk by talking to them over the phone because you have nothing that will prove you to be liable for anything. I agree with this thinking, i apologize for not mentioning that in the first reponse. I think this is the correct thing to do at first but atleast you know your outs now if they prove to be stubborn.

Guiness what on earth are you talking about. My point is that's all they can possibly get from a DV they can't dispute the original terms of the contract with a CA. they have to go another route. The OP was wondering if sending the CA a DV was the way to handle the situation and i was just explaining that that isn't necessary the right remedy for the current problem.

Re: HELP with DV Letter - Send documentation?

Anonymous — Mon, 02 Aug 2010 14:29:34 GMT

Basically, I just want to know where to go from here. I've already sent a DV to the CA with no response.

Now I have this zero-balance statement and was wondering where I should sent it (CA or OC) and what I should say in the letter accompanying it. It sounds like I should send it to the OC and simply write a letter explaining that the debt is invalid, as shown by the balance and ask them to eliminate the debt and withdrawal from CA? Is that correct? Any special language? It seems like it would be nice to cite the section of the FCRA that requires creditors to only report correct information. Anyone know that citation?

Re: HELP with DV Letter - Send documentation?

Anonymous — Mon, 02 Aug 2010 14:33:16 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Basically, I just want to know where to go from here. I've already sent a DV to the CA with no response.

Now I have this zero-balance statement and was wondering where I should sent it (CA or OC) and what I should say in the letter accompanying it. It sounds like I should send it to the OC and simply write a letter explaining that the debt is invalid, as shown by the balance and ask them to eliminate the debt and withdrawal from CA? Is that correct? Any special language? It seems like it would be nice to cite the section of the FCRA that requires creditors to only report correct information. Anyone know that citation?

You are 100% correct sending this info to the CA is a waste of time IMO.

No special language required you have all the evidence you need. I'll leave the exact fdcpa laws to Roberteg but you have all that you need to show that the incurred fees in question are illegal.

Re: HELP with DV Letter - Send documentation?

Anonymous — Mon, 02 Aug 2010 15:20:00 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
I appreciate the reply.

All prior communications with DirecTV to "dispute" this balance were done over the phone, which obviously is not the best method. Before I decide to take any drastic measures, I would like to at least send them a formal letter enclosing the zero balance statement asking them to explain the alleged debt and remove the balance, stop reporting to CBs, etc. Any suggestions on templates or strategy for this letter to the OC (DirecTV)??

You have nothing to risk by talking to them over the phone because you have nothing that will prove you to be liable for anything. I agree with this thinking, i apologize for not mentioning that in the first reponse. I think this is the correct thing to do at first but atleast you know your outs now if they prove to be stubborn.

Guiness what on earth are you talking about. My point is that's all they can possibly get from a DV they can't dispute the original terms of the contract with a CA. they have to go another route. The OP was wondering if sending the CA a DV was the way to handle the situation and i was just explaining that that isn't necessary the right remedy for the current problem.

What I am talking about is you giving them incorrect or not full information. You stated all they had to give you was the OC name and amount. I said that was not correct unless you disputed it or specifically asked for it. A DV only makes them tell you who is currently collecting.

Re: HELP with DV Letter - Send documentation?

Anonymous — Mon, 02 Aug 2010 15:41:49 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
You have nothing to risk by talking to them over the phone because you have nothing that will prove you to be liable for anything. I agree with this thinking, i apologize for not mentioning that in the first reponse. I think this is the correct thing to do at first but atleast you know your outs now if they prove to be stubborn.

Guiness what on earth are you talking about. My point is that's all they can possibly get from a DV they can't dispute the original terms of the contract with a CA. they have to go another route. The OP was wondering if sending the CA a DV was the way to handle the situation and i was just explaining that that isn't necessary the right remedy for the current problem.
What I am talking about is you giving them incorrect or not full information. You stated all they had to give you was the OC name and amount. I said that was not correct unless you disputed it or specifically asked for it. A DV only makes them tell you who is currently collecting.

The info i gave is not incorrect. Once you request this you still are not able to dispute the terms of the original contract. I stand by what i said. Whether you have to request the info is irrelavent all they have to give you is the information i mentioned before.

If you have to request it so what it's not gonna have any bearing on the how the fees occured on the original account balance in the first place. All they are restricted to by law is to prove that the balance exist with the original creditor and they have the right to collect on it. It doesn't matter if the balance is accrued illegally. This is not to be taken up with the CA.

Re: HELP with DV Letter - Send documentation?

Anonymous — Mon, 02 Aug 2010 16:04:15 GMT

I would suggest you re-read the FDCPA on debt validation.

Re: HELP with DV Letter - Send documentation?

Anonymous — Mon, 02 Aug 2010 17:10:48 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I would suggest you re-read the FDCPA on debt validation.

Yup read it ok ... what's new. You have to request the information ... we already been through this. You established that and that has nothing to do with my point. The fdcpa is very vague on what verification is. They merely have to show that the account balance exist on the oc's books what part of fdcpa 809 says they must go beyond that?

Or plz show any formal proof thru court ruling anywhere where a judge has demanded that a CA has to go beyond this.

Re: HELP with DV Letter - Send documentation?

Anonymous — Mon, 02 Aug 2010 17:20:54 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
I would suggest you re-read the FDCPA on debt validation.
Yup read it ok ... what's new. You have to request the information ... we already been through this. You established that and that has nothing to do with my point. The fdcpa is very vague on what verification is. They merely have to show that the account balance exist on the oc's books what part of fdcpa 809 says they must go beyond that?

Or plz show any formal proof thru court ruling anywhere where a judge has demanded that a CA has to go beyond this.

According to the FDCPA no, they do not. They only have to tell you who is currently collecting the debt and how much it is.

Re: HELP with DV Letter - Send documentation?

Anonymous — Mon, 02 Aug 2010 17:36:36 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
According to the FDCPA no, they do not. They only have to tell you who is currently collecting the debt and how much it is.

809 (a) (5) clearly states the CA must respond with a statement that upon the consumer's written request within the thirty day period, the debt collector will provide the consumer with the name and the address of the ORIGINAL CREDITOR if different from the current creditor.

Clark v. Capital Credit & Collection Servs., Inc.

Here’s a case, Clark v. Capital Credit & Collection Servs., Inc., where a consumer disputed a medical bill. The collection attorney, hired by the doctor, collected eight pages of itemized charges that included the nature of the charges and balance of the bill. The 9th Circuit of Appeals agreed and stated: “verification of a debt involves nothing more than the debt collector confirming in writing that the amount being demanded is what the creditor is claiming is owed; the debt collector is not required to keep detailed files of the alleged debt.”

collector is not required to keep detailed files of the alleged debt.”

Chaudhry v. Gallerizzo

Chaudhry v. Gallerizzo is the finding that is most often used by debt collectors. In that case, which was a special situation where pages and pages of detailed validation from the original creditor were already sent to the consumer as validation, the court ruled:

“Verification of a debt involves nothing more than the debt collector confirming in writing that the amount being demanded is what the creditor is claiming is owed; the debt collector is not required to keep detailed files of the alleged debt.”

I do stand corrected i have found an example where judge that has ruled that a CA thouroughly explain where all the fees accrued since the account's inception. However most of the cases ruled had this outcome. The odds are against that argument period.

Re: HELP with DV Letter - Send documentation?

Anonymous — Mon, 02 Aug 2010 18:01:19 GMT

Exactly, IF REQUESTED. Just sending a DV does not require them to send that information. That is all I am trying to get across.