topic Re: Which should I do first DV or PFD? in Rebuilding Your Credit

Which should I do first DV or PFD?

Anonymous — Mon, 16 Aug 2010 07:03:18 GMT

Hi newbie here. I have so many questions so where to start. I would like the buy a house in the next 6 months. I found a lender that will work work with a 620 score so I need to work on bringing it up. I currently have a 590. I have spent hours here since I discovered this forum and I'm confused about whether or not I should do a DV or PFD. I have a some medical collections with low balances and was just going to do a PFD to see if I could settle for a less amount and have them deleted. I just read a post saying that I should DV first and if that doesnt work then I should ask to PFD. I live in TX and the SOL is 4 years. I think the biggest medical expense is around $200. I had one mortage broker tell me to go to each of the CRA and just dispute every one of them since some will most likey not respond with DV and that they will have to be deleted. I also read on here that I shouldn't go through the CRA to dispute but rather the CA.

I also have a Verizon and Centerpoint bill that I think I should just PFD.

Can someone help shed some light on which is the best route to go?

Re: Which should I do first DV or PFD?

Anonymous — Mon, 16 Aug 2010 14:57:12 GMT

Hi and welcome to the forums.

The general rule on sending a DV is, if you can pay in full and the debt is still within suing SOL, it is ok to send it. If you can't PIF, don't send it.

If it is outside SOL, send it.

TX Finance Code requires a CA to repsond to a DV within 30 days of their receipt.

Do NOT dispute them with the CRAs if they are accurate accounts.

A dispute with the CRAs and a DV are two separate things.

Re: Which should I do first DV or PFD?

britishbooklady — Mon, 16 Aug 2010 15:30:58 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Hi newbie here. I have so many questions so where to start. I would like the buy a house in the next 6 months. I found a lender that will work work with a 620 score so I need to work on bringing it up. I currently have a 590. I have spent hours here since I discovered this forum and I'm confused about whether or not I should do a DV or PFD. I have a some medical collections with low balances and was just going to do a PFD to see if I could settle for a less amount and have them deleted. I just read a post saying that I should DV first and if that doesnt work then I should ask to PFD. I live in TX and the SOL is 4 years. I think the biggest medical expense is around $200. I had one mortage broker tell me to go to each of the CRA and just dispute every one of them since some will most likey not respond with DV and that they will have to be deleted. I also read on here that I shouldn't go through the CRA to dispute but rather the CA.

I also have a Verizon and Centerpoint bill that I think I should just PFD.

Can someone help shed some light on which is the best route to go?

Hi Betterscores (cool name, btw )!

Welcome to the forums. I'm going to assume that you've already read all the important threads like "where do I start" and "credit 101" that they have listed under "Frequently requested threads." I know how confusing it can be in the beginning. I'd also suggest (if you haven't done it already) is to download a current copy of the FDCPA and the FCRA from the FTC's website. Actually reading the laws yourself helps when you begin drafting your letters.

You said that your current score is 590. Is that a FICO score? And, if so, which one? You'll want to know both EQ and TU....and you'll want to have pulled all of your credit reports from annualcreditreport.com because most mortgage lenders are going to pull all of them anyway. You want to make sure all your CRs are in good shape before you let anyone pull them because inquiries will bring your score down.

I was in your same shoes about 3 months ago...and, yes, I have spent hours...probably days actually...reading and researching. But, it has paid off...I've actually gotten two baddies removed. One was through a PFD...I didn't bother with the DV because I knew it was my bill (it was an old phone bill for $118). The second one was not my bill and I had to fight with them a little bit - sent an initial DV and then had to send a nasty, "legally threatening" response to their inadequate validation. They deleted after that.

So, as for the DV vs PFD...it depends on your situation and, actually, how quickly you want to get things removed. Just remember that with each letter you send, you've basically got to wait 30 days for their response. Not to mention, the cost of sending things CMRRR. It can add up.

Disputing with the CRAs can yield some good results, but some people believe it's a waste of time....simply because, the CRAs usually rely on a database that receives all the information a CA reports electronically. If you dispute something and the CRA finds the info in their database, they're just going to verify the info as accurate...without even bothering to call the CA directly. Once you have a current copy of your free annual credit reports, look to see how recently something was reported. If it's been several months or even years, then there's a good chance the CRAs will delete it because the info probably wouldn't be in their database anymore. But, at the same time, be aware that any type of disputing is liable to wake a sleeping dog. If you have the $ to PFD, then go that route. Just make sure you get their agreement in writing before you actually pay them. Oh, on a side note, I have one baddie left that's due to come off my CRs in 09/2010. I haven't disputed them at all. I'm just waiting for it to actually drop off, then I intend to send them a letter asking to settle for probably half of what they say I owe. That way, I don't have to worry about them possibly sending it to a different CA who might try to re-age it illegally and put it back on my CRs.

Sorry, I know that's a lot of info to take in....I hope it helps, though.

Good luck!

Re: Which should I do first DV or PFD?

MarineVietVet — Mon, 16 Aug 2010 17:01:58 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Hi newbie here. I have so many questions so where to start. I would like the buy a house in the next 6 months. I found a lender that will work work with a 620 score so I need to work on bringing it up. I currently have a 590. I have spent hours here since I discovered this forum and I'm confused about whether or not I should do a DV or PFD. I have a some medical collections with low balances and was just going to do a PFD to see if I could settle for a less amount and have them deleted. I just read a post saying that I should DV first and if that doesnt work then I should ask to PFD. I live in TX and the SOL is 4 years. I think the biggest medical expense is around $200. I had one mortage broker tell me to go to each of the CRA and just dispute every one of them since some will most likey not respond with DV and that they will have to be deleted. I also read on here that I shouldn't go through the CRA to dispute but rather the CA.

I also have a Verizon and Centerpoint bill that I think I should just PFD.

Can someone help shed some light on which is the best route to go?

Welcome.

In addition to what has already been said here is a good thread about What Steps Do I Take Next?

From a BK years ago to:
EX - 9/09 pulled by lender 802
EQ - 7/06-663, 3/10-800
TU - 8/10-772
You can do the same thing with hard work

Re: Which should I do first DV or PFD?

Anonymous — Mon, 16 Aug 2010 19:28:18 GMT

Yes that is my FICO from TU. I applied for a mortgage loan about 2 weeks ago and I did the rapid rescore that's how I got my FICOs. They used TU because that was where it showed the biggest increase would be. It went from 560 to 590 by just paying one credit card down to a balance of $40 in 2 days. I have the credit report the lender pulled plus the 3 free credit reports. I stayed up all night (couldn’t sleep for thinking about this) and typed up a spreadsheet with all the bad debts listed. I am going to summarize as best I can without confusing anyone.

Some background – I filed for BK13 in 03 via an attorney. In 05 I was desperate trying to keep from losing my home and was told by someone who stops foreclosures saying I could “save” my house from FC and that I needed to file a BK7 to covert from the BK13 to keep that from happening. I ended up filing myself thinking I was converting but I didn’t. The BK 13 was dismissed and I messed everything up. There are only 2 CAs showing up from the BK which I have listed below.

I have 13 baddies:

7 which are unpaid medical collections (100/161/154/259/51/113/176 balance shows $0 as CO) – This is where I am having a hard time determining if I should do the HIPPA or just PFD. I am willing to PIF for deletion. Is that the easiest route to go? If so do I contact the CA or the OC? Only one is over SOL I believe. These 7 med collections are from Capio Partners, Frost-Arnett Collection and IC Systems Collections.

1 is AFNI CA for Verizon - $74

1 is Asset Acceptance VA for AIMCO - $106 balance shows 0 as CO

1 is Entex Energy - $62 CO balance of $1

1 is Midland Credit Mgmt for Beneficial - $5889 (was on BK13 in 05 but was dismissed and is still reporting monthly I think. It seems to have shown back up in 4/08 on my CR)

1 is NCO Financial CA for Reliant Energy - $111

1 is Santander Consumer USA – $4982 (part of BK13 in 05 which was dismissed but is now reported monthly I think. Shows opened 2/04, rptd since 3/05, date of status 1/07, last rptd 7/10 – this was a repo included in BK)

Do you think I'll have any luck in at least getting some of these removed??

Thanks for your responses everyone and for the helpful links. I really need help figuring this out so any help is GREATLY appreciated. I’m ready to mail some letters out and get the ball rolling!

BTW: I signed up for Scorewatch this morning and my Experian score showed 611. Go figure??

Re: Which should I do first DV or PFD?

RobertEG — Tue, 17 Aug 2010 04:14:14 GMT

Since a DV and a PFD are for very different reasons, I personally dont think doing one before the other is even the issue..

DV letters relate to debt collection practices under the FDCPA. You can never DV through a CRA. DV letters are strictly between you and the debt collector. CRAs are not a party to the DV process. The main reason for a DV letter is to require the debt collector to cease active collection activities until such time as they choose to provide validation. If the debt is valid, then validatation of it wont be difficult for the CA. They just have to provide you with the name of the OC, and the amount of the alleged debt, and they have validated. There is no time period for them to respond to your DV request (unlss you live in TX), and failure to respond to your DV request is not primarily a credit reporting issue, and not grounds for asserting any CR deletions. And if you dont send your DV letter within 30-days of your dunning notice, they can simply ignore it.

FDCPA 809(b).

PFD letters, on the other hand, are related to credit reporting, and not to debt collection activities. PFD offer is the presentation of a legal contract offer to them that asks them to accept payment at the offered amount in exchange for their agreement to delete their prior reproting from your CR. The CA can simply throw a PFD letter in the trash can, and never respond. It is a private matter between you and the CA, and has no FDCPA or FCRA implications.

Acceptance of a PFD offer by any creditor is, in substance, asking them to violate their credit reporting agreements with the CRAs, which have strict guidelines against any deletion of prior, accurate reporting, based on later payment of the debt. Some creditors will accept a PFD, but are strongly within their rights to just summarily ignore them, or to respond back that they dont do PFD deletions.

Meanwhile,whether you DV or offer PFD, the debt is still there, and no response is requried from the creditor. So you are hanging, unless fortunate enough to get a PFD acceptance. That is when you become very serious about knowing your state SOL on your legal defense should they turn to civil action.

Either/or a DV or PFD may be viewed by the creditor as resistance to payment of the debt, and thus might spur them to bring legal action.

In my opinion, cookie-cutter advice to always DV before a PFD ignores the reasons and implications of both.

I would not even recommend that you always DV or PFD, let alone which must be done first. The implications of both are based, not only on what you do, but the credtitor's actions, and reactions, to them. In the end, it is a personal decision.

Re: Which should I do first DV or PFD?

Anonymous — Tue, 17 Aug 2010 03:58:26 GMT

Thanks for the explanation. You shed a lot of light on this for me. I was torn on as to which approach to take on the bad debts. Most of my debts are fairly small with the exception of the 2 that were on the original BK. Those are really the only 2 that are past the SOL since I filed BK in 05 and they were both listed. If the CRAs are showing them relisted does the SOL start over? I would think the small balance are hardly worth suing over but who knows.

Re: Which should I do first DV or PFD?

RobertEG — Tue, 17 Aug 2010 04:32:49 GMT

Texas is, to say the least, unique in their debt collection statutes. Texas statute does not provide for any reset of your SOL. So any subsequent credit reporting done by the OC or CA has no SOL "reset" implications.

Your TX SOL most probably runs from your DOFD on the OC account.

So, if you go to court in TX, you will probably only need proof of your first date of cause of action on the OC account as proof of the commencement of the running of the SOL.

Yes, TX also does requrie a 30-day response to a DV, but that should not be a problem for the CA, if the debt is legit.

If you have the right to still file a timely DV (i.e., you do it within 30-days of their dunning notice), then they may have the Texan obligation to respond baclk within the same period of 30-days..

That raises a lot of peripheral issues.

Did you timely DV? Did they timely respond? IF they did not, is that a violation of TX law that then reaches over into requried deletion of their prior credit reporting?

Re: Which should I do first DV or PFD?

Anonymous — Tue, 17 Aug 2010 04:43:20 GMT

I have not mailed the DVs yet. I'm waiting to see what type of advice I get on here as to how to proceed with different debts. I think I am going to just PFD my medical debts and DV some of the older ones. I'm just worried about stirring up the $5k debts that have stopped mailing me letters. I guess I was confused because there seems to be a strong opinion on various boards that you should DV first.

Re: Which should I do first DV or PFD?

Anonymous — Tue, 17 Aug 2010 16:20:03 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I have not mailed the DVs yet. I'm waiting to see what type of advice I get on here as to how to proceed with different debts. I think I am going to just PFD my medical debts and DV some of the older ones. I'm just worried about stirring up the $5k debts that have stopped mailing me letters. I guess I was confused because there seems to be a strong opinion on various boards that you should DV first.

Are the debts you are talking about still within suing SOL?

Re: Which should I do first DV or PFD?

Anonymous — Tue, 17 Aug 2010 17:34:21 GMT

For most they are. I'm just having a hard time understanding on the CR which dates I'm supposed to use to determine the SOL. My biggest 2 amounts for around $5k but are past the SOL because those were included in the BK in 05. They just reposted those. It sounds like the SOL won't restart after they get posted again. Is that true? Do you think a CA will sue for an amount under $200? Do you think I should just PIF and ask for PFD on most of them?

Re: Which should I do first DV or PFD?

britishbooklady — Wed, 18 Aug 2010 20:02:30 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
For most they are. I'm just having a hard time understanding on the CR which dates I'm supposed to use to determine the SOL. My biggest 2 amounts for around $5k but are past the SOL because those were included in the BK in 05. They just reposted those. It sounds like the SOL won't restart after they get posted again. Is that true? Do you think a CA will sue for an amount under $200? Do you think I should just PIF and ask for PFD on most of them?

I know what you mean...not all of the CRs report the DOFD in the same place (or even at all in some cases). Someone had posted a really good explanation for this recently...of course, I can't find it now to save my life. Hopefully that person (or someone just as knowledgeable) will read this and post it again. In the meantime, I can tell you this much: If the TL in question has a statement like "This account is scheduled to continue on record until XXX XXXX" or "Estimated date that this item will be removed: XX/XXXX" then subtract 7 to 7.5 years from that date and that should give you an idea of the actual DOFD. Equifax CRs actually have a box for "Date of First Delinquency" at the bottom of their TLs.

And, no, SOL will not restart just because a CA recently posted something to your CR.

No one really knows what a CA will sue over...if the debt is within SOL, then of course that's something to be concerned about.

If you PIF first, instead of offering the PFD (to the CA, of course), then you'll need to send a GW letter after the fact. This may or may not yield good results, depending on who's reading the letters. Most CAs don't care enough to even consider a GW letter...they've already got what they wanted ($). You know what I mean?

So, my suggestion to you is to just take it one TL at a time. You've got a lot of stuff to work through and, honestly, it's going to take some time. There are a lot of great, knowledgeable people here on the FICO forums who have posted a wealth of information over the years. Do a search for each CA, one by one, and see how other people have handled them.

Good luck!

s whRe: Which should I do first DV or PFD?

Anonymous — Wed, 18 Aug 2010 22:30:58 GMT

I guess what I meant to say that I would be willing to PIF for deletion. I really meant to ask do DV or PFD, not which to do first thinking I'd do the other second. Sorry about that!

Also, can I just DV ALL my CAs even the medical or should I do the Pre-HIPPA letters for medicals instead?

Re: s whRe: Which should I do first DV or PFD?

Anonymous — Wed, 18 Aug 2010 22:41:00 GMT

There is no requirement for the HIPAA process at all.

You can send every CA a DV. Just make sure you can PIF if they validate, or the debt is outside suing SOL.

Re: s whRe: Which should I do first DV or PFD?

Anonymous — Wed, 18 Aug 2010 22:44:30 GMT

Thank you! I have been going in circles in my brain trying to figure out the best/easiest route. My medical collections are not big and if worse came to worse and I had to pay, I could.

So if they do come back and validate, can I ask for PFD?

I've got all my DVs printed and ready to go. Just wasn't comfortable about the medical DVs.

Re: s whRe: Which should I do first DV or PFD?

Anonymous — Wed, 18 Aug 2010 22:46:12 GMT

Yes, if they validate, ask for a PFD.

If the OC still owns th account, you can ask them if you pay them directly will they pull the account back from the CA.