topic Re: UPDATE! - Can a CA be considered an OC? in Rebuilding Your Credit

UPDATE! - Can a CA be considered an OC?

britishbooklady — Wed, 11 Aug 2010 19:11:27 GMT

I sent a DV letter to EOS-CCA on July 20th. They are listed on my CR as collecting for an old (2003) Sprint PCS account. Funny thing is, my DH has a totally different CA on his CR reporting the same Sprint PCS account (scheduled to come off his CR Sep2010). I dug up some old CRs and found a "David Taylor and Associa" (address in MA) listed on my Aug2007 CR supposedly collecting for Sprint PCS. That particular TL stated "this account is scheduled to continue on record until Apr 2010." CCAs TL states it won't come off until Jun2011. Okay, so I know that only one company can own a debt at any given time. What I find strange is the letter I received today in response to my DV. Here's how it reads:

CCA                                                                                                               OFFICE HOURS
700 LONGWATER DRIVE, 2ND FLOOR                                     MONDAY - FRIDAY 8AM - 5PM EST
NORWELL, MA 02061                                                                   PHONE: (800) 455-8026 (781) 681-4
                                                                                                            FAX:         (781) 681-4340
07/23/10
MY NAME
MY ADDRESS
This letter serves as your requested verification of your outstanding debt with US ASSET MANAGEMENT INC:
Identification Verification
Original Creditor: SPRINT PCS
Creditor Account #: XXXXXXXXXX
Name: My Name
              Current Address
Balance Verification
Principal:                      $ 335.52
Interest:                         $ 186.80
Fees/Coll Costs          $ 60.40
Account Balance:        $ 582.72
The above information has been verified as correct by
US ASSET MANAGEMENT INC.
Yours truly,
RECOVERY SERVICES REP
Processing Services Representative
This communication is from a debt collector. This is an attempt to collect a debt and any information obtained will be used for that purpose.

My gut instinct says that this is NOT a proper validation/verification. I mean, I asked them to send me the original creditors name and address as well as a copy of the debt or judgement for which they are collecting. You know, the standard DV letter, citing FDCPA 809, etc. I don't even know who the heck US Asset Management is. Have never heard from them EVER. Where do I go from here? Do I send them another letter telling them essentially that they are idiots and need to read the FDCPA? I have a feeling the CRAs aren't going to be any help at all. This is probably the same crap that the CRAs accept as "verification" when someone tries to dispute directly with them. I'm so frustrated right now.

Any and all advice will be greatly appreciated.

Re: Can a CA be considered an OC?

Anonymous — Thu, 29 Jul 2010 00:03:57 GMT

A CA cannot be an OC, ever.

If you specifically asked for the name and address of the OC, they have to send it, From what I can tell, the address is the only thing missing otherwise it would be a proper DV response.

Only one CA can report and/or attempt to collect on a debt. If you have others reporting also, send them DV letters. They will have to remove the accounts from your CRs.

What is your states SOL for this type of debt.

You can send them another DV and tell them they did not properly respond to your first one.

Re: Can a CA be considered an OC?

britishbooklady — Thu, 29 Jul 2010 00:32:54 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
A CA cannot be an OC, ever.

If you specifically asked for the name and address of the OC, they have to send it, From what I can tell, the address is the only thing missing otherwise it would be a proper DV response.

Only one CA can report and/or attempt to collect on a debt. If you have others reporting also, send them DV letters. They will have to remove the accounts from your CRs.

What is your states SOL for this type of debt.

You can send them another DV and tell them they did not properly respond to your first one.

Thanks for your quick response, guiness.

I didn't think a CA could be an OC. What threw me was how they're stating that they verified with this US Asset Management (another CA) instead of with Sprint (the OC).

I live in VA...so SOL is 5 years for written contracts (assuming that Sprint PCS is considered written). It's 3 years for oral and open, and 6 years for promissory. Either way, it's past SOL.

So, when I write back, can I insist that they verify with Sprint specifically (as well as, send me the address) or they must delete from the CR until such time that they can properly validate?

Re: Can a CA be considered an OC?

Anonymous — Thu, 29 Jul 2010 00:42:34 GMT

A CA can never be an OC but, one CA can collect for another. Only one of them can report.

I would send a DV to US Asset Management. (I missed that part. They can't verify with them).

They really don't have to send you anything other than Sprints name and address. And per the FDCPA, they have to give you the address or as far as I am concerned it is not a proper response.

They don't have to delete unless they are unable to validate the debt. They only have to stop collection activity once they receive the DV.

Re: Can a CA be considered an OC?

RobertEG — Thu, 29 Jul 2010 06:36:07 GMT

It depends on what you requested in your DV letter.

Requesting the address of the OC is something that, under FDCPA 809(b), must be specifically requested. Was that in your DV letter?

The FDCPA does not specify who they must contact to obtain verification, or how they do it. If they already had, in their own files, the name of the OC, and detailed for you the current amount of the debt, that is full verification. Account documents are not required.

I see full debt validation under FDCPA 809b), except for the possible lack of the OC address. And that is kinda minor, since the OC is a major corp that also has its address posted in your CR, and in prior communications with you.

No, a CA cant be an OC. But what appears to have happened here is that the OC sold the debt to Asset Mgmt, and that EOS-CCA is now collectiing on behalf of Asset Mgmt. Perfectly proper. The OC apprently no longer owns the debt, so for collection purposes, is out of the picture.

No, you cant demand removal of the CA from your credit report based on your allegation that they have not provided full validation. That is a debt collection practices issue, going to their ability to continue active collection activities, and not a credit reporting issue.

The only remaining relevance of the OC is that your DOFD with the OC still controls the statutory expiiratiion of the 7 1/2 reporting limit of any and all CA reporting to your CR. That is not a debt validation issue.

Re: Can a CA be considered an OC?

britishbooklady — Thu, 29 Jul 2010 12:30:17 GMT

Here's the DV letter I sent to them:

My Name
My Address
My City, VA XXXXX

EOS CCA
700 Longwater Dr.
Norwell, MA 02061-1624

RE: #XXXXXXX

Dear Sir/Ma'am,

I recently obtained a copy of my credit report and found your company listed on it claiming that I owe a debt. Since I have not received any form of communication from your company, please accept this letter as my official written notification of dispute with regards to this alleged debt.

I am requesting, in accordance with subsection 809 of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act (FDCPA), that you send me a copy of the original creditor's name and address, as well as a copy of the debt or judgment for which you are collecting. Thank you, in advance, for your timely response.

Sincerely,
My Name

I understand that US Asset Management may own the account now, but that does not make them the OC and, if my understanding of the FDCPA is correct, EOS-CCA cannot validate/verify the debt with them...they must verify the debt with the OC (Sprint). Yes?

Btw, I googled US Asset Management last night to see if I could find their address to DV them...and guess what I found??? Their address is the same as EOS-CCA. So, yeah...I'm thinking that this company is not kosher at all. That's why I was asking you guys for some advice. I've never dealt with a company like this before.

Any thoughts?

Re: Can a CA be considered an OC?

Anonymous — Thu, 29 Jul 2010 14:25:57 GMT

Yes, they have to get the information from Sprint, not the CA who now owns the account.

Re: Can a CA be considered an OC?

Anonymous — Thu, 29 Jul 2010 14:50:11 GMT

@RobertEG wrote:
It depends on what you requested in your DV letter.
Requesting the address of the OC is something that, under FDCPA 809(b), must be specifically requested. Was that in your DV letter?
The FDCPA does not specify who they must contact to obtain verification, or how they do it. If they already had, in their own files, the name of the OC, and detailed for you the current amount of the debt, that is full verification. Account documents are not required.
I see full debt validation under FDCPA 809b), except for the possible lack of the OC address. And that is kinda minor, since the OC is a major corp that also has its address posted in your CR, and in prior communications with you.

No, a CA cant be an OC. But what appears to have happened here is that the OC sold the debt to Asset Mgmt, and that EOS-CCA is now collectiing on behalf of Asset Mgmt. Perfectly proper. The OC apprently no longer owns the debt, so for collection purposes, is out of the picture.
No, you cant demand removal of the CA from your credit report based on your allegation that they have not provided full validation. That is a debt collection practices issue, going to their ability to continue active collection activities, and not a credit reporting issue.
The only remaining relevance of the OC is that your DOFD with the OC still controls the statutory expiiratiion of the 7 1/2 reporting limit of any and all CA reporting to your CR. That is not a debt validation issue.

1 The OP did specifically ask for the OC address. That was stated in the post.

2. If the CA did not include the OC address, which was specifically asked for, the CA did not give a proper response. I read nowhere in the FDCPA that stated if they are a major corporation a CA did not need to include the address.

3. It is a debt validation issue.

4. Here is a partial quote from an FTC opinion letter that says the CA has to get the verification from the creditor:

" Because one of the principal purposes of this Section is to help consumers who have been misidentified by the debt collector or who dispute the amount of the debt, it is important that the verification of the identity of the consumer and the amount of the debt be obtained directly from the creditor"

Re: Can a CA be considered an OC?

britishbooklady — Fri, 30 Jul 2010 12:02:39 GMT

I'm still needing some guidance here...please. I got an alert this morning from my CMS stating that CCA had updated my TU report - basically they updated the total amount due from $456 (which is the amount they reported back in 01/2009) to their new claim of $582 (added interest and fees according to their letter). Oddly enough, the CA on my DHs CR has never added interest or fees. Hmm.

Since this account is from 2003 and we've moved at least 5 times since then, I haven't been able to find any old bills to reference. I couldn't even remember the old phone numbers.

Yesterday, I googled Sprint PCS and found a phone number to call. I wanted to see if they (the OC) still had records in which, one, a CA could actually verify with them and, two, to determine the actual DOFD. I was very fortunate to get ahold of some very nice and helpful people. The first CSR tried to find us in the system through the account # CCA had on their letter to me - nothing, and then our SSNs - still nothing. So, she put me on hold for a few minutes and came back to tell me to call a different number...which would get me in touch with their internal collections dept. After speaking briefly with one CSR, she transferred me to a "Lead Rep" who was able to access the old system files. We spent close to an hour on the phone...she was very kind and, IMO, went above and beyond to help me figure this whole mess out. I told her that I just wanted to know, for certain, how much we actually truly owed and who we were supposed to pay it to.

So, now I know...the DOFD, the actual breakdown of the final bill, and the name of the original CA they sold it to and when. Forgive me for not going into more detail, but I honestly don't know who reads these forums...I suspect there's more than a few folks on here that actually work for CAs...and if someone who works for EOS-CCA happens to be reading this, I don't want to inadvertantly give them the information that they need to be getting from the OC. They should be calling them to find out for themselves, right? I mean, here's my position, if they can't properly validate with the OC (Sprint) then they must not be legally able to collect the debt. I don't want to pay a CA unless I know for sure that the money is going to get back to Sprint, thereby satisfying the debt once and for all.

I'm getting ready to draft a response to their letter and would really appreciate some advice on how to word it. Again, thanks, for any and all help.

Re: Can a CA be considered an OC?

Anonymous — Fri, 30 Jul 2010 12:37:22 GMT

Did you find out if you can pay Sprint directly?

ETA what is the DoFD? And if they were able to finally help you at the OC, is there a way for you to get proof from them? If so, I'd ask for it, and use that to dispute past CRTP with the CRAs, assuming it was more than 7 years ago. (You said 2003, so, depending on what month, it should be gone either already or soon)

Re: Can a CA be considered an OC?

britishbooklady — Fri, 30 Jul 2010 12:52:57 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Did you find out if you can pay Sprint directly?

ETA what is the DoFD? And if they were able to finally help you at the OC, is there a way for you to get proof from them? If so, I'd ask for it, and use that to dispute past CRTP with the CRAs, assuming it was more than 7 years ago. (You said 2003, so, depending on what month, it should be gone either already or soon)

No, unfortunately, I can't pay Sprint directly...it's way too old. But the Lead Rep I spoke with said that I should just settle with the CA and get a letter stating that it satisfies the debt in full. This, she says, will take it off my CR. I don't think she knows the CRTP rules, because the last payment they received was Sep2003. So, yes, CRTP will be expiring very soon.

Yes, I'm getting copies of everything Sprint has. I'm thinking of contacting that original CA they sent it to...just to see if they can tell me who owns the debt now. What do you think?

Re: Can a CA be considered an OC?

Anonymous — Fri, 30 Jul 2010 13:20:59 GMT

Do you need it gone sooner than September?

If not, I'd *definitely* wait and then dispute as past CRTP. Also, when you have established proof of DoFD, I'd bust the CA on re-aging the debt. I'm not sure how one goes about that, possibly by filing suit against them. That would probably make them go away in a hurry. Writing them a strongly worded letter saying that you have proof that they've illegally re-aged the debt would probably get them to shut up and delete, too...I'd prefer to collect money for it, though.

Re: Can a CA be considered an OC?

llecs — Fri, 30 Jul 2010 13:34:20 GMT

OP, IMO, their response was OK. As Robert mentioned, it depends on what the DV said. I do want to add that I had a run-in with CCA too. They skirt the law and they cave easily if you challenge them legally. First off, Massachusettes law allows for the consumer (Mass. residents only, though....but why not throw it out, right?) to ask for a full accounting of the debt. IMO, full accounting would be the last known balance of the debt leading up the CA's balance today. It looks like the CA attempted to do that. You may want to double confirm the state's interest rate, but I think the CA is limited to a fixed amount per year. Their rate may have exceeded that. You'd want to look at MAss. law and your state's law on the matter. Next, unless I am wrong and sometimes am, the FDCPA prohibits collection fees when collecting a debt. That issue alone can trip them up. Your state or Mass' laws may also have a provision on that. Finally, keep tabs on CCA's licensing. They let it lapse in the past and if it lapsed while they are collecting, then the whole thing could get tossed.

Re: Can a CA be considered an OC?

Anonymous — Fri, 30 Jul 2010 13:47:24 GMT

@britishbooklady wrote:
I sent a DV letter to EOS-CCA on July 20th. They are listed on my CR as collecting for an old (2003) Sprint PCS account. Funny thing is, my DH has a totally different CA on his CR reporting the same Sprint PCS account (scheduled to come off his CR Sep2010). I dug up some old CRs and found a "David Taylor and Associa" (address in MA) listed on my Aug2007 CR supposedly collecting for Sprint PCS. That particular TL stated "this account is scheduled to continue on record until Apr 2010." CCAs TL states it won't come off until Jun2011. Okay, so I know that only one company can own a debt at any given time. What I find strange is the letter I received today in response to my DV. Here's how it reads:

CCA                                                                                                               OFFICE HOURS
700 LONGWATER DRIVE, 2ND FLOOR                                     MONDAY - FRIDAY 8AM - 5PM EST
NORWELL, MA 02061                                                                   PHONE: (800) 455-8026 (781) 681-4
                                                                                                            FAX:         (781) 681-4340
07/23/10
MY NAME
MY ADDRESS
This letter serves as your requested verification of your outstanding debt with US ASSET MANAGEMENT INC:
Identification Verification
Original Creditor: SPRINT PCS
Creditor Account #: XXXXXXXXXX
Name: My Name
              Current Address
Balance Verification
Principal:                      $ 335.52
Interest:                         $ 186.80
Fees/Coll Costs          $ 60.40
Account Balance:        $ 582.72
The above information has been verified as correct by
US ASSET MANAGEMENT INC.
Yours truly,
RECOVERY SERVICES REP
Processing Services Representative
This communication is from a debt collector. This is an attempt to collect a debt and any information obtained will be used for that purpose.
My gut instinct says that this is NOT a proper validation/verification. I mean, I asked them to send me the original creditors name and address as well as a copy of the debt or judgement for which they are collecting. You know, the standard DV letter, citing FDCPA 809, etc. I don't even know who the heck US Asset Management is. Have never heard from them EVER. Where do I go from here? Do I send them another letter telling them essentially that they are idiots and need to read the FDCPA? I have a feeling the CRAs aren't going to be any help at all. This is probably the same crap that the CRAs accept as "verification" when someone tries to dispute directly with them. I'm so frustrated right now.
Any and all advice will be greatly appreciated.

This is where you have them on the illegal re-aging. With a DoFD of September 2003, a June 2011 drop-off is undoubtedly an illegally re-aged date.

Re: Can a CA be considered an OC?

britishbooklady — Fri, 30 Jul 2010 20:31:42 GMT

@llecs wrote:
OP, IMO, their response was OK. As Robert mentioned, it depends on what the DV said. I do want to add that I had a run-in with CCA too. They skirt the law and they cave easily if you challenge them legally. First off, Massachusettes law allows for the consumer (Mass. residents only, though....but why not throw it out, right?) to ask for a full accounting of the debt. IMO, full accounting would be the last known balance of the debt leading up the CA's balance today. It looks like the CA attempted to do that. You may want to double confirm the state's interest rate, but I think the CA is limited to a fixed amount per year. Their rate may have exceeded that. You'd want to look at MAss. law and your state's law on the matter. Next, unless I am wrong and sometimes am, the FDCPA prohibits collection fees when collecting a debt. That issue alone can trip them up. Your state or Mass' laws may also have a provision on that. Finally, keep tabs on CCA's licensing. They let it lapse in the past and if it lapsed while they are collecting, then the whole thing could get tossed.

Thanks for the info Ilecs. I've got several MA pages bookmarked for future reference. Right now, I'm pushing the whole "you didn't provide me with the address I requested." Trying to keep it simple. I'm also putting the 2nd letter to the ATTN: Compliance Manager. According to the BBB they have one of those.

In the process of googling various and sundry information on US Asset Management, I stumbled onto a couple of lawsuits against an entity called, "Collecto, Inc. dba Collection Company of America, and U.S. Asset Management Inc." Which brings me back to the original concern: How can they legally verify anything with themselves?

Re: Can a CA be considered an OC?

britishbooklady — Wed, 11 Aug 2010 19:10:32 GMT

UPDATE...I pulled my CRs today and EOS-CCA is gone from all of them! I couldn't believe it but, wow! I guess this is proof that the process definitely works. You just gotta do your research and make sure you know what you're talking about when you write your letters. Btw, I mailed this CMRRR on Aug 2nd and they signed for it on Aug 4th.

Here's the follow-up letter I sent:

EOS CCA
ATTN: Compliance Manager
700 Longwater Drive
Norwell, MA 02061-1624

Dear Compliance Manager,

This letter reasserts my notice of dispute regarding the alleged debt referenced in the attached letter. Your company’s response to my previous certified letter (#XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX) dated July 19, 2010 is grossly inadequate and not in compliance with § 809 of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act (FDCPA).

In my previous letter I specifically requested that you send me a copy of the original creditor’s name and address. Your letter stated the name of the original creditor, Sprint PCS, but not their address. The FDCPA § 809(b) clearly states that when a debt collector receives written notification of dispute from a consumer that the “…debt collector shall cease collection of the debt…until the debt collector obtains verification of the debt…or the name and address of the original creditor, and a copy of such verification…or name and address of the original creditor, is mailed to the consumer by the debt collector.”

Your letter also indicated that the debt in question is currently owned by US Asset Management Inc and that this is the company in which you “verified” the debt with. I had never heard of or from this company. Upon further investigation, I learned that this company and your company are simply DBA names for the same company, Collecto Inc. So, your letter basically asserts that you verified the information with yourselves. Which is, at best, a severe conflict of interest, and, at worst, a blatant disregard for the law. In light of this glaring fact, I am demanding that you adhere to 209 CMR 18.18(3): “A debt collector shall provide to a consumer…within five business days the following: (a) All papers or copies of papers, in the possession of the debt collector which bear the signature of the consumer and which concern the debt being collected; and (b) A ledger, account card, or similar record in the possession of a debt collector, which reflects the date and amount of payments, credits, and charges concerning the debt.”

Please be advised that, since your company did not send me the original creditor’s address as I requested in my first letter, any collection activity that has occurred since you received my notice of dispute on July 22, 2010, is in direct violation of federal law [15 USC § 1692g(b)].

Sincerely,
My Name
My Address

Re: Can a CA be considered an OC?

Anonymous — Wed, 11 Aug 2010 19:19:33 GMT

Congrats!

Re: Can a CA be considered an OC?

Anonymous — Wed, 11 Aug 2010 19:30:10 GMT

Here's my favorite part:

Please be advised that, since your company did not send me the original creditor’s address as I requested in my first letter, any collection activity that has occurred since you received my notice of dispute on July 22, 2010, is in direct violation of federal law [15 USC § 1692g(b)].

Re: UPDATE! - Can a CA be considered an OC?

britishbooklady — Thu, 12 Aug 2010 21:41:43 GMT

I received a letter in the mail today...apparently the reason why this account suddenly disappeared from my CRs the other day. It was typed on EOS CCA's very nice company letterhead:

August 9, 2010

My Name

My Address

My City, State, zip

Re: EOS CCA Ref #: XX-XXXXXXX

Original Creditor: Sprint PCS| Creditor Account #: XXXXXXXXXX

Current Creditor: US Asset Management

Dear My Name:

Our client, US Asset Management, placed the above referenced account with our office on 7/7/2006. As of 8/9/2010, the account has been closed. As such; our office will not contact you any further. The credit bureaus have been notified to delete the above referenced account from their records.

If you have any questions or concerns, please contact my office at XXX-XXX-XXXX, extension XXXXX.

Sincerely,

Signature

Xxxx X. Xxxxx

Compliance Assistant

Very cool...

Re: UPDATE! - Can a CA be considered an OC?

Anonymous — Sat, 21 Aug 2010 22:48:43 GMT

Hey, I came upon this thread while trying to research EOS CCA accounts. I sent them a DV letter back in July and have yet to hear back from them anything at all. They are collecting for an old AT&T bill that frankly I don't recall ever owing.

I have disputed them with the CRA's and they came back verified, but yet they won't respond to my DV letter? Am I correct that they really don't HAVE to respond to DV letters? Would it be a good idea to come up with a bit stronger of a DV letter and send it off again? These guys are one of the last of the baddies I have. Most everything else i have a way to have them deleted thru paying them.

I just can't seem to get a response from them.

Suggestions?