topic Re: Debt Collection Call? in Rebuilding Your Credit

Debt Collection Call?

Anonymous — Mon, 04 Mar 2013 20:18:54 GMT

Hello! First time posting here, as I have an issue I've never run up against...

I have been receiving phone calls from "618-613-4432" for about a month now. I have never answered the calls, and it was an unrecognized number (and doing a quick google search had me believe it was spam/telemarketer).

Today, I actually answered it as I was tired of it calling me. The woman confirmed my name with my first name and maiden name, and said she was calling from "Vision Financial" and attempting to collect a debt of a little over $100. She then read off the last four digits of my SS#.

Before revealing who she was collecting debt on behalf of, she asked how I would like to pay for it. I then asked who she was calling on behalf of, and she said "HSBC". When I said, "Who??" She said, "HSBC...Younkers" (Younkers is a department store related to Bergmens, Carsons, Elder-Beerman, Hershbergers, etc). I told her I didn't have a Younkers card, and she then said the card was opened in 1996, and last payment was 1997.

Now, while I don't remember specifically having a Younkers card, given the timeframe it is entirely possible that I could have had one (I was in college and very irresponsible with my debt...something that hung on for years unfortunately!).

The thing is...I can't figure out 1) how they got my cell phone number (I have been quite careful to not share that with businesses and only give them my cell phone number), and 2) how they could have connected my cell phone number with my maiden name (as I only got this number 10 years ago, and it was under my married name...as are any accounts I have had since that time).

I have been working hard to repair my debt, and if I honestly owe this money than I am more than willing to pay it. However, looking at my MyFico "Score Power Report", I can't seem to find anything about HSBC or Younkers?

I asked to call her back, and she was hesitant and wouldn't give me a phone number. She then offered to call me back in an hour (which I agreed to), but I am not comfortable giving my credit card number OR paying on a debt that I can't seem to find any record of in my MyFico information. I wonder if you can actually have them send you a copy of information from Younkers/HSBC showing my debt owed? Or if I could call HSBC/Younkers directly?

Does anyone have any suggestions?

Any input/advice is greatly appreciated!

Jen

Re: Debt Collection Call?

starry1 — Mon, 04 Mar 2013 20:22:13 GMT

There is no way I would pay that without a DV. Besides, the debt is more than 18 years old, you could just tell them to stop contacting you.

Re: Debt Collection Call?

Anonymous — Mon, 04 Mar 2013 20:25:00 GMT

Thank you for your quick reply, starry1!

I am new to the forums...could you tell me what a DV is?

Also, is there a limit regarding the amount of time a debt collector has to attempt to collect the debt (referring to your 18 year comment)?

Thanks again for your assistance!

Re: Debt Collection Call?

starry1 — Mon, 04 Mar 2013 20:28:21 GMT

Debt validation or verification. That is proof you owe the debt and they have the right to collect it. They can come after you for the debt forever, but they cannot sue you or insert it into your credit report at this late date.

As shady as that collector was acting not wanting to give your their phone number, my assumption would be these people are very shady indeed and may have no right to collect that debt on behalf of the original creditor. make them prove it. Just do a search in this forum for DV examples.

Re: Debt Collection Call?

Anonymous — Mon, 04 Mar 2013 20:32:35 GMT

they can try to collect it forever if they want. However, you are not bound by any means to pay them after Statute of limitations expire.( which in your case is well past). You should send a DV(debt validation) to them VIA US postal Certified Mail Return receipt requestsed. They can no longer report this debt to any Credit reporting agency. You should get a free copy of your credit reports from annualcreditreport(free once a year) and see if its on there.

Re: Debt Collection Call?

nmjacobs — Mon, 04 Mar 2013 20:34:59 GMT

It is not on your credit report. The debt is well past the statute of limitaitons (usually 4-6 years past date of first deliquency; check your state). I would tell them to stop contacting you. Or, just don't answer the phone. If you don't want to go that route, ask them for account numbers and contact the original creditor.

Re: Debt Collection Call?

DaBears — Mon, 04 Mar 2013 20:41:27 GMT

SOL is only in regards to the time frame a collection agency could sue you. It varies by state. I would check your States SOL. It has nothing to do with how long it can report. CRTP=Credit Reporting Time Period. 7.5 yrs is the most it can report on CR's.

Re: Debt Collection Call?

jritch — Mon, 04 Mar 2013 21:38:11 GMT

Do not admit that it's your debt either. As others said, get their address and send a certified letter with return receipt.

Since it's past the SOL you don't even need to validate it, its considered zombie debt and they have no legal basis to call or report it to your credit report. This is a good letter which should be customized, but should stop them. http://www.creditinfocenter.com/forms/sampleletter20.shtml

Re: Debt Collection Call?

DaBears — Mon, 04 Mar 2013 21:52:55 GMT

Unpaid debt can be collected on till the end of time. Unpaid debt doesn't go away. They can still try to collect. unpaid debt stays in your files with the CRA's. If a lender decides to pull your whole file they might just make you pay it. Usually happens when obtaining a mortgage loan of 150K+ or a salary of 75K or more.

Re: Debt Collection Call?

jritch — Mon, 04 Mar 2013 22:15:36 GMT

@DaBears wrote:
Unpaid debt can be collected on till the end of time. Unpaid debt doesn't go away. They can still try to collect. unpaid debt stays in your files with the CRA's. If a lender decides to pull your whole file they might just make you pay it. Usually happens when obtaining a mortgage loan of 150K+ or a salary of 75K or more.

As long as you can prove that the SOL has expired the collector can not collect, sue or report to your CR. However, If the statute of limitations expires on a debt before that seven years is up, the account will remain on your credit report.

From the FTC:

http://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0117-time-barred-debts

Re: Debt Collection Call?

DaBears — Mon, 04 Mar 2013 22:16:24 GMT

CA's can collect on unpaid debt forever!!!! They just can't sue once your states SOL has expired.

Re: Debt Collection Call?

Anonymous — Mon, 04 Mar 2013 22:21:13 GMT

@jritch wrote:
@DaBears wrote:
Unpaid debt can be collected on till the end of time. Unpaid debt doesn't go away. They can still try to collect. unpaid debt stays in your files with the CRA's. If a lender decides to pull your whole file they might just make you pay it. Usually happens when obtaining a mortgage loan of 150K+ or a salary of 75K or more.

As long as you can prove that the SOL has expired the collector can not collect, sue or report to your CR. However, If the statute of limitations expires on a debt before that seven years is up, the account will remain on your credit report.

From the FTC:
http://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0117-time-barred-debts

Yes, it is true. An unpaid debt NEVER goes away. The CA can attempt to collect forever. In some states it may be illegal for them to pursue a debt outside of SOL but it is rare.

This is from the same page you provided the link for:

Although the collector may not sue you to collect the debt, you still owe it. The collector can continue to contact you to try to collect, unless you send a letter to the collector demanding that communication stop. Not paying a debt may make it harder, or more expensive, to get credit, insurance, or other services because not paying may lower your credit rating.

Re: Debt Collection Call?

jritch — Mon, 04 Mar 2013 22:19:42 GMT

@DaBears wrote:
CA's can collect on unpaid debt forever!!!! They just can't sue once your states SOL has expired.

Well, as long as a debt exists it can be sold and assigned to various collections. You just have to send a letter stating the statute of limitations has expired and you no longer wish to be contacted about the debt which is your legal right..

How many times will you have to do that? No idea. But everytime a collection agency sells the debt to another CA, the odds that they'll have any return on success is significanty less.

Re: Debt Collection Call?

p- — Mon, 04 Mar 2013 22:20:01 GMT

irisheyez wrote: ...Before revealing who she was collecting debt on behalf of, she asked how I would like to pay for it. I then asked who she was calling on behalf of, and she said "HSBC". When I said, "Who??" She said, "HSBC...Younkers" (Younkers is a department store related to Bergmens, Carsons, Elder-Beerman, Hershbergers, etc). I told her I didn't have a Younkers card, and she then said the card was opened in 1996, and last payment was 1997....

Your next conversation with them should go as follows: "Please mail me the information regarding this account, it doesn't sound familiar to me."

Any additional phone calls should receive that same statement, and nothing else. Once you get the information in the mail, send a DV letter that includes a request to communicate by mail only, no phone calls. If they send you enough information after the DV that you see the account as yours, it's up to you whether you want to pay. It's past reporting period on your CR, so they have no leverage.

Good luck, Jen!

Re: Debt Collection Call?

sarahcatherinemay — Tue, 05 Mar 2013 06:16:33 GMT

do NOT pay this or give them any more information!! My friend went through the same thing with some collection agency who was demanding a money transfer or debit card information for some bogus account. Somehow these people got ahold of her information (possibly through old application or something) - she reported it to the FTC. It's some scam using info from places you may have applied to & threatening to garnish wages, etc .. Any legitimate CA will verify info and give you contact info. Period. Don't be a victim of this scam - it may very well be legitimate, but if they are not willing to validate it in writing & refuse to give you their information then tell them to go to you-know-where.

Re: Debt Collection Call?

Shogun — Tue, 05 Mar 2013 07:29:31 GMT

An unpaid debt is an unpaid debt, and with the exception of a couple of states, they can still attempt collection. They just can't seek legal recourse or post on your CR. You could just send them a cease and desist letter if you want them to quit calling.

Re: Debt Collection Call?

jritch — Tue, 05 Mar 2013 13:59:18 GMT

@Shogun wrote:
An unpaid debt is an unpaid debt, and with the exception of a couple of states, they can still attempt collection. They just can't seek legal recourse or post on your CR. You could just send them a cease and desist letter if you want them to quit calling.

Well put. My brother had a CA trying to collect some zombie debt 3 years ago from Columbia House [geez, remember that] from 1995! He was clearly spooked when he received the initial call as the CSR essentially demanded he pay the debt of less than $30 right there over the phone. They also threatened to report it to his credit report if he didn't pay [that was their fatal flaw there].

Smartly, he did not admit to owing the debt and asked if they could prove [validate] that it was in fact his. He hung up, but was pursued twice daily for about a week when he had enough. This was essentially the case of scavenger CA's purchasing super old debts in bulk on the penny, and then using scare tactics to pressue and trick less informed people to pay - a really terrible practice that has to stop.

Anyway, he had a friend that was part of a general law practice, and very quickly confirmed that any debt at this point, whether valid or not, is out of the statute of limitiation within our state [assume that if it's from 1995, its invalid anywhere!]. Most importantly, because they threathened to report a SOL item to his credit report which is illegal, they crossed a very signifcant line.

In a very brief letter, he clearly made mention that they violated provisions of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act (FDCPA) by implying that the legal status of the debt is collectible by threantenting to report the alleged debt to the credit bureaus. If they didn't cease and desist he would contact the FTC and state agency for legal recourse, and also reminded them that he can sue under the FCRA and the FDCPA.

3 days later he received a letter from them that they would no longer pursue any collection activities. That was the end of that. A CA will not pursue a well informed person who stands up for their rights.

Bottom line is that a lot of CA's are in it to make money and will use dubious tactics to trick consumers. We have rights too. Places like myfico is an amazing community of knowledge and advice. Research as much as you can before you decide to take any action with a collection agency. Every step and choice you make with them has some sort of ramification. Take your time and empower yourselves!

Re: Debt Collection Call?

Anonymous — Tue, 05 Mar 2013 15:15:41 GMT

SOL only goes by the state you live in. If it is uncollectable in your state, it can still be in others. There are only 2 states that have laws that state when the SOL has expired, the debt in extinguished.

The only way to legally have a zombie debt collector stop contacting you is by a written cease and desist letter.

Re: Debt Collection Call?

Anonymous — Wed, 06 Mar 2013 16:46:11 GMT

Wow, thank you all so much for your suggestions and information!

As I anticipated, I received a call back from the CA exactly one hour later. I told her on the phone that I would like proof of this debt, and that I wasn't familiar with any debt to Younkers. I told her that even if this was my debt (which I couldn't confirm, as I don't have any record of it), it was beyond the SOL. She told me more than once, "Well, we have been trying to get ahold of you for awhile" LOL! She also told me their practice was legal, otherwise how would she have obtained my contact information? I told her, "That is a very good question, and something I'm wondering myself...how DID you obtain my contact information?" Of course, she didn't have an answer for that.

She continued to argue with me and I continued to tell her, "I have no record of this debt, and it may not even be mind. I would appreciate you sending me proof of my debt (original credit application, account statements, etc - not just a computer generated letter from their "agency"). She finally got frustrated, muttered something I wasn't able to make out, said, "Good bye" and hung up.

So I guess now I'll wait to see if I receive the proof from them.

Thanks again for all of your assistance!

Re: Debt Collection Call?

jritch — Wed, 06 Mar 2013 17:10:22 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Wow, thank you all so much for your suggestions and information!

As I anticipated, I received a call back from the CA exactly one hour later. I told her on the phone that I would like proof of this debt, and that I wasn't familiar with any debt to Younkers. I told her that even if this was my debt (which I couldn't confirm, as I don't have any record of it), it was beyond the SOL. She told me more than once, "Well, we have been trying to get ahold of you for awhile" LOL! She also told me their practice was legal, otherwise how would she have obtained my contact information? I told her, "That is a very good question, and something I'm wondering myself...how DID you obtain my contact information?" Of course, she didn't have an answer for that.

She continued to argue with me and I continued to tell her, "I have no record of this debt, and it may not even be mind. I would appreciate you sending me proof of my debt (original credit application, account statements, etc - not just a computer generated letter from their "agency"). She finally got frustrated, muttered something I wasn't able to make out, said, "Good bye" and hung up.

So I guess now I'll wait to see if I receive the proof from them.

Thanks again for all of your assistance!

Nice, that's the response I expected you would get. I would still follow-up with debt validation letter [certified with return receipt] to them to close the loop and prevent being targeted by them down the road. If they don't follow-up within 30 days of receiving your request, you're in the clear.