topic Re: DV letter question in Rebuilding Your Credit

DV letter question

Shellie — Tue, 05 Nov 2013 14:36:57 GMT

The CA is required to respond to a DV letter, right?

I got the letter from the CA on or around 10/20/2013, it was dated 10/02/2013. I had 30 days to send my letter. I sent it CMRRR and got the signed card that they received it 10/28/2013. So they got it in the 30 day window. They recently reported it.

Can they report it before they validate it?

This showed up on my score watch 11/01/2013

Reported: 10/1/2013

Show/Hide Details

In 9/1/2013, the collection agency ONLINE COLLECTIONS GRVL was hired by creditor Not Reported to collect $271 in debts on account number XXXXXXXXXXXXX4624.

Original balance:	$271	Agency name:	ONLINE COLLECTIONS GRVL
Current balance:	$271	Agency number:	885YA00026
Status (as of 10/1/2013) :	UNPAID	Agency industry:	Not Reported
First delinquency:	10/1/2011	Original creditor:	885YA00026
Last payment:	Not on Record
Description:	Consumer disputes this account information

Re: DV letter question

Cynthia1123 — Tue, 05 Nov 2013 14:55:56 GMT

Good morning,

This happened to me and I called them, it's basically a note for the account and then they should send you their findings in writing by mail. If they can't validate, then you can ask for deletion and/or contact CRA's and tell them that they have can't verify. I did this after they noted the account the same way and failed to provide the verification.

Cynthia

Re: DV letter question

RobertEG — Tue, 05 Nov 2013 15:19:08 GMT

As to the two separate questions.....

No, there is no requirement that a debt collector ever respond to a DV.

The requirment under FDCPA 809(b) is that they must cease active collection on the debt until such time as they provided verification.

The intent of the DV process is to week out frivolous or spurious collections by requiring them to first provide assurance that they have investigated the legitimacy of the debt and informed the consumer that they obtained adequate basis to verify that you are ther resonsible consumer.

FDCPA 809(b) does not list any and all types of actions by a debt collector that are considered to be barred collection activites.

However, the courts have established, in numerous decisions, that reporting to a CRA prior to having first provided debt verification is a barred collection activity, so yes, it as a violaltion of section 809(b).

How to deal with their improper reporting is a bit iffy.

The reporting per se is not inaccurate, and the CRAs are not a party to debt collection practices issues under the FDCPA, so may decline to make their own ruling of a vioaltion of section 809(b) and delete based on a consumer dispute. To do so would involve them in making determinations of adequacy of debt verifcation in cases where the debt collector asserts they have provided verification.

The normal path is to file a formal complaint with the CFPB for their violation of FDCPA 809(b).

Re: DV letter question

Anonymous — Tue, 05 Nov 2013 15:36:58 GMT

@Shellie wrote:
The CA is required to respond to a DV letter, right?

I got the letter from the CA on or around 10/20/2013, it was dated 10/02/2013. I had 30 days to send my letter. I sent it CMRRR and got the signed card that they received it 10/28/2013. So they got it in the 30 day window. They recently reported it.

Can they report it before they validate it?
This showed up on my score watch 11/01/2013

Reported: 10/1/2013
Show/Hide Details
In 9/1/2013, the collection agency ONLINE COLLECTIONS GRVL was hired by creditor Not Reported to collect $271 in debts on account number XXXXXXXXXXXXX4624.
Original balance: $271 Agency name: ONLINE COLLECTIONS GRVL
Current balance: $271 Agency number: 885YA00026
Status (as of 10/1/2013) : UNPAID Agency industry: Not Reported
First delinquency: 10/1/2011 Original creditor: 885YA00026
Last payment: Not on Record
Description: Consumer disputes this account information

No they are not required to validate, only cease collections activity until they do.

SInce they clearly reported this to the CRAs after they received the DV they have violated the FDCPA.

As suggested, file a complaint with the CFPB.

On a side note, they have listed it as in dispute. When you send a DV letter you are disputing the debt to the CA and not how it is reported. They should not have listed the TL in dispute with the CRAs.

Re: DV letter question

Shellie — Tue, 05 Nov 2013 15:40:07 GMT

@RobertEG I know you are incredibly educated in this credit stuff but it is difficult for me to understand your replies some times. I'm sorry, I'm just not very knowledgeable in all the legal stuff yet, but I'm learning.

Do I need to dispute this? Don't we have to dispute before we can file a complaint?

Re: DV letter question

Shellie — Tue, 05 Nov 2013 15:43:02 GMT

So do I dispute this with the CRA?

Re: DV letter question

Cynthia1123 — Tue, 05 Nov 2013 15:44:53 GMT

yes !

Re: DV letter question

RobertEG — Tue, 05 Nov 2013 15:50:12 GMT

Yes, I would first dispute.

However, my reference to a CFPB complaint was added because there is a chance that the CRA will verify.

That would conclude the dispute process.

A CFPB complaint would be a second line of action.

Re: DV letter question

Anonymous — Tue, 05 Nov 2013 15:52:08 GMT

Unfortunately, the CFPB requires you to dispute with the CRAs prior to your filing a complaint.

Re: DV letter question

Shellie — Tue, 05 Nov 2013 15:54:04 GMT

Ok so just to be sure... file a dispute with the CRA's (all of them?) and wait out that process and then file a complaint?

Re: DV letter question

Shokk — Tue, 05 Nov 2013 15:54:54 GMT

I was thinking maybe the CA reported this TL to the CRAs prior to receiving the DV, but the TL already shows as disputed, so there went that theory.

Next, in your DV request, did you dispute anything or simply ask for debt validation? A DV by itself is not a dispute. You're simply asking for information. Assuming your DV letter did not dispute anything, I see 2 violations. One for reporting after receiving a DV request, and one for marking it as disputed.

One caveat. I read one of the FTC opinion letters recently that addressed this exact scenario. I'll have to look up which one it is, but the answer in that letter was that the initial reporting to the CRA, even after receiving a DV, was not a violation. This opinion letter was written in 1996 I believe, and is of course, just an opinion. Robert mentions case law stating the opposite, and I will defer to him, but thought it worth mentioning.

Re: DV letter question

Anonymous — Tue, 05 Nov 2013 15:55:17 GMT

Yes. And if I remember correctly, the CFPB will ask for reference numbers from the CRAs so make sure you hold on to those.

Re: DV letter question

Shellie — Tue, 05 Nov 2013 16:15:14 GMT

Ok, I took all my reports home yesterday so I dont have them here with me at work. Maybe I can bring them back and work on them tomorrow and start the dipute then.

Re: DV letter question

Anonymous — Tue, 05 Nov 2013 19:03:26 GMT

@Shokk wrote:
I was thinking maybe the CA reported this TL to the CRAs prior to receiving the DV, but the TL already shows as disputed, so there went that theory.

Next, in your DV request, did you dispute anything or simply ask for debt validation? A DV by itself is not a dispute. You're simply asking for information. Assuming your DV letter did not dispute anything, I see 2 violations. One for reporting after receiving a DV request, and one for marking it as disputed.

One caveat. I read one of the FTC opinion letters recently that addressed this exact scenario. I'll have to look up which one it is, but the answer in that letter was that the initial reporting to the CRA, even after receiving a DV, was not a violation. This opinion letter was written in 1996 I believe, and is of course, just an opinion. Robert mentions case law stating the opposite, and I will defer to him, but thought it worth mentioning.

Not exactly true. It is not a dispute under the FCRA but by sending a DV you are disputing something about the alleged debt. Be it the balance, the OC or whatever, you are disputing it.

It is most definitely a violation to report once a DV is received. The FTC opinion letter states that. Here are 2 responses that say they cannot report once a DV is received.

II. "Is it permissible under the FDCPA for a debt collector to report, or continue to report, a consumer's charged-off debt to a consumer reporting agency after the debt collector has received, but not responded to, a consumer's written dispute during the 30-day validation period detailed in § 1692g?" As you know, Section 1692g(b) requires the debt collector to cease collection of the debt at issue if a written dispute is received within the 30-day validation period until verification is obtained. Because we believe that reporting a charged-off debt to a consumer reporting agency, particularly at this stage of the collection process, constitutes "collection activity" on the part of the collector, our answer to your question is No. Although the FDCPA is unclear on this point, we believe the reality is that debt collectors use the reporting mechanism as a tool to persuade consumers to pay, just like dunning letters and telephone calls. Of course, if a dispute is received after a debt has been reported to a consumer reporting agency, the debt collector is obligated by Section 1692e(8) to inform the consumer reporting agency of the dispute.

IV. "Would the following action by a debt collector constitute continued collection activity under § 1692g(b): reporting a charged-off consumer debt to a consumer reporting agency as disputed in accordance with § 1692e(8), when the debt collector became aware of the dispute when the consumer sent a written dispute to the debt collector during the 30-day validation period, and no verification of the debt has been provided by the debt collector?"

Yes. As stated in our answer to Question II, we view reporting to a consumer reporting agency as a collection activity prohibited by § 1692g(b) after a written dispute is received and no verification has been provided. Again, however, a debt collector must report a dispute received after a debt has been reported under § 1692e(8).

Re: DV letter question

Shokk — Tue, 05 Nov 2013 19:50:24 GMT

Thanks for the correction guiness. I misread a portion of it.

Re: DV letter question

Shellie — Tue, 05 Nov 2013 20:14:19 GMT

How do I prove they reported AFTER they got my DV. It says on the alert that is was reported 10/01/2013 but I didn't get the alert for it until 11/01/2013.

Re: DV letter question

Shellie — Tue, 05 Nov 2013 20:15:55 GMT

Do they have to wait that 30 day window to report?

Re: DV letter question

Shokk — Tue, 05 Nov 2013 20:17:29 GMT

@Shellie wrote:
Do they have to wait that 30 day window to report?

No. Only after they responded to DV. Look at the date on the letter they sent you. Then you'll need a fresh copy of your report to see the last date they updated.

Re: DV letter question

Shellie — Tue, 05 Nov 2013 20:20:37 GMT

My letter from them, the initial contact, was dated 10/02/2013. The signed for the DV 10/28/2013. I pulled my reports yesterday so they are fresh. I got the score watch update 11/01/2013 that a new account had reported. I have yet to receive a reply to my DV letter.

Re: DV letter question

Shokk — Tue, 05 Nov 2013 20:28:26 GMT

I just looked at your original post. It shows it was reported 10/1. Regardless of when you received the alert, it appears they reported it to the CRAs on 10/1, so before they received your DV.

Unfortunately, I don't believe there is anything that says they can't report before contacting you.