topic Re: TCM Bank -- NOT reporting my settlement as agreed! in Rebuilding Your Credit

TCM Bank -- NOT reporting my settlement as agreed!

Pigeyex — Thu, 23 Jan 2014 15:40:17 GMT

In December, I reached out proactively (they were no longer even trying to collect this debt) with TCM Bank to settle an old credit card balance of $455.00. I had had a dispute with them several years ago over a fraudulent charge from our son's little league registration vendor, got ticked off with them, and foolishly walked away from about a $300 balance (that then grew to the $455).

I tried to get them to agree to a PFD, but they refused -- twice -- and instead the best I could get was a settlement of $291.55, and that it would be updated to a $0.00 balance with all three bureaus and reported as (and I'm quoting from my settlement letter) "debt paid full balance."

As of a week ago, they were STILL showing the $455 balance on all three bureaus, and the bank's phone system -- when I punched in my account #, etc. -- was showing that I still had an unpaid balance with them of $164 (the amount of the discount they agreed to write off), and that it was past due! I emailed them and the rep I had settled with had retired since December (thank God I had gotten my settlement confirmation in writing), and I've been going back and forth with a new guy for about a week now. They did update Experian to the $0.00 balance, but not the other two, and when I pulled my 3-in-1 this morning, the status on all three was showing as "CHARGED OFF" !!!

Even the nefarious Midland has lived up to their agreement on my two settlements with them, showing as $0.00 balance and "settled as agreed" or "settled for less than full amount." "WRITTEN OFF" makes me look like someone who never even contacted them to pay this old debt (much less PAID it), and they just wrote me off and washed their hands of me!

I just wrote them another email, and cc'd the President and the CEO, and am trying to get this fixed ASAP, as my wife and I are trying to refinance our mortgage. I also asked that -- as a courtesy and in consideration of this latest error -- they would agree to a PFD.

I also called TransUnion (which looks safely to be my "middle score" for the forseeable future) directly, to dispute the reporting of this account, and they asked me to fax them a copy of my settlement letter from TCM.

What a P.I.T.A., for such a small account.

Pigeye

Re: TCM Bank -- NOT reporting my settlement as agreed!

RobertEG — Thu, 23 Jan 2014 17:51:11 GMT

Very unfortunate circumstances, to say the least.

You reached out to them, and they report a major derog.

However, it is not blatantly incorrect reporting.

They are doing no favor, and you need no agreement by them to report $0 balance if they accept payment as saitisfaction of the debt.

That is true regardless of whether you pay in full or they accept less than the full amount as satisfaction of the debt.

Recourse is to file a dispute over the accuracy of their reporting, citing their statutory obligation under FCRA 623(a)(2) to promptly update any prior reporting so as to maintain its currecnt accuracy. That's the easy part to deal with.

Their additional reporting of a charge-off is unecessary and harmful, but is not per se improper.

If they took that accounting measure at any point prior to your satisfaction of the debt, they are entitled to report it. It is a prior event, and remains accurate.

They can report at a later date.

It's a good case for a GW plea, but not disputable as improper reporting.

Re: TCM Bank -- NOT reporting my settlement as agreed!

Pigeyex — Thu, 23 Jan 2014 17:53:17 GMT

@RobertEG wrote:
Very unfortunate circumstances, to say the least.
You reached out to them, and they report a major derog.
However, it is not blatantly incorrect reporting.

They are doing no favor, and you need no agreement by them to report $0 balance if they accept payment as saitisfaction of the debt.
That is true regardless of whether you pay in full or they accept less than the full amount as satisfaction of the debt.
Recourse is to file a dispute over the accuracy of their reporting, citing their statutory obligation under FCRA 623(a)(2) to promptly update any prior reporting so as to maintain its currecnt accuracy. That's the easy part to deal with.

Their additional reporting of a charge-off is unecessary and harmful, but is not per se improper.
If they took that accounting measure at any point prior to your satisfaction of the debt, they are entitled to report it. It is a prior event, and remains accurate.
They can report at a later date.
It's a good case for a GW plea, but not disputable as improper reporting.

Does their settlement agreement letter govern in the eyes of the credit bureaus? i.e, can I make the case that even though they were ENTITLED to report that they had charged off the debt prior to the settlement, they nevertheless AGREED TO report it as "debt paid full balance" ? And -- having agreed -- they are entitled to live up to that agreement?

thanks,

Pigeye

Re: TCM Bank -- NOT reporting my settlement as agreed!

Pigeyex — Sat, 25 Jan 2014 16:29:14 GMT

OK, now I just got an alert that they did a hard-pull inquiry on my Equifax!!! Can they even DO that? My account with them is settled and CLOSED, and I didn't apply for any new credit with them . . . how can they do a hard-pull on me? I thought they had to have a CURRENT, OPEN account with a creditor in order for them to do a HP?

This is how they respond to their screw-up, on a guy who REACHED OUT TO THEM to try to clear up his old account? I feel like they're just sticking their thumb in my eye!!!!

Re: TCM Bank -- NOT reporting my settlement as agreed!

RobertEG — Sat, 25 Jan 2014 16:54:55 GMT

The taking and reporting of a charge-off is not related to the consumer's continued obligation for the debt.

It is an internal accounting measure. After they did the CO, the full debt remained due, and they could continue to attempt collection of the full debt.

It is in essence simply their reporting that, at that point in time, they did not expect the debt to be paid.

Subsequent payment of the debt did not alter that prior determination, and thus the reporting of that act is not precluded by payment of the debt.

My argument to them would be that placing a statement in your file that you were previously not expected to pay the debt is somewhat unfair after you have paid the debt.

It clouds your report by an indication that you dont pay your debt, and thus does not represent your actions as a consumer.

I would peddlle it lightly as a reason for their deletion, and not argue the accuracy of the reporting itself. Starting out with a contentious arguement of wrongdoing on their part is not apt to promote their ultimate granting of good-will.

Re: TCM Bank -- NOT reporting my settlement as agreed!

Pigeyex — Sat, 25 Jan 2014 18:09:00 GMT

Thanks, Robert --makes sense. Not FAIR, but makes sense. What about the hard pull? Are they allowed to do that, after the account has been both closed AND settled??

Thanks,

Paul

Re: TCM Bank -- NOT reporting my settlement as agreed!

gdale6 — Sat, 25 Jan 2014 20:08:18 GMT

@Pigeyex wrote:
Thanks, Robert --makes sense. Not FAIR, but makes sense. What about the hard pull? Are they allowed to do that, after the account has been both closed AND settled??

Thanks,

Paul

Yes, if you have had or presently had an account they have permissable purpose to pull it. In reading your thread here, if you have the letter indicating how it will be reported my adivse is to send copy of it to the EO with a demand that it be corrected to report that way or you will sue them for breech of contract (which it is). What tcm is doing is called poisoning your report.., the CO followed by the INQ, its all to drop your score and keep you in credit limbo for more time.

Adding: Make sure to have hard copies of what is on your reports with a date if printing from the internet, you will need them in court should a suit be necessary.

Re: TCM Bank -- NOT reporting my settlement as agreed!

Anonymous — Sat, 25 Jan 2014 21:14:26 GMT

@Pigeyex wrote:
Thanks, Robert --makes sense. Not FAIR, but makes sense. What about the hard pull? Are they allowed to do that, after the account has been both closed AND settled??

Thanks,

Paul

No, once an account is paid and closed they no longer have permissible purpose.

http://www.cardreport.com/laws/fcra/ftc-opinion/gowen.html

Re: TCM Bank -- NOT reporting my settlement as agreed!

Pigeyex — Mon, 27 Jan 2014 14:50:33 GMT

OK, seems to be a wildly different range of opinions on this one. I do appreciate everyone's reply.

The account was definitely both CLOSED, and SETTLED ($0.00) balance at the time they did the hard inquiry. And I certainly haven't asked them to reopen it, or extend any sort of new credit to me, etc. So it would seem that the only gray area here would be:

Did my notification to them that they were not reporting my TL accurately on my credit reports (not reporting it as they agreed to, in writing, in their settlement letter to me), and my demand that they either fix it or just delete my entire TL . . . did that constitute some sort of "permission" from me to them to do a hard pull on my report, to take a look at it?

That wouldn't seem right to me, as they certainly already know on THEIR side how they were reporting any Status and Comments to the three bureaus after my settlement with them. And it CERTAINLY doesn't seem right to me that ANY lender with whom I had a prior account/relationship can do an HP, otherwise any old department store charge card account from 10 years ago could just start HPing me and tanking my credit?

I tried calling Equifax, but got lost in Third World phone-tree Hell.

Pigeye

Re: TCM Bank -- NOT reporting my settlement as agreed!

Anonymous — Mon, 27 Jan 2014 14:59:33 GMT

No, they did not have PP to pull your credit. It could have been corrected without them doing that.

A HP is reserved for certain situations and that was not one of them.

Re: TCM Bank -- NOT reporting my settlement as agreed!

RobertEG — Mon, 27 Jan 2014 15:15:41 GMT

The permisslbe purpose under FCRA 604 for a debt collector to obtain your credit report is for "collection on a debt."

Once satisfied, there is no debt, ergo no permissible purpose for collecting on a debt.

I would send a dispute to the CRA of the grant of their inquiry, citing as the basis their lack of permissible purpose.

You cannot dispute issues related to inquireis under the direct dispute process.

The CRA will most likely verify, after which I would send a formal complaint to the CFPB.

Re: TCM Bank -- NOT reporting my settlement as agreed!

Pigeyex — Mon, 27 Jan 2014 15:25:02 GMT

I will reply to both of your recent posts shortly -- thank you. I did just receive this response from TCM's Senior VP/Chief Lending Officer, with whom I've been dealing most recently on this:

(Pigeyex),

I have completed the research on your account and have confirmed that all three credit bureaus are properly reporting your account as having a zero balance. (Experian picked up the update on 1/16/14, while TransUnion and Equifax retrieved the update on 1/17/14. It typically takes the bureaus up to 72 hours to update their reporting files.) Moreover, the reporting of Charged Off or Written Off is correct and the fact that the account shows as a zero balance should be interpreted by potential creditors as paid in full. The Fair Credit Reporting Act prevents us from honoring your request to remove this trade line since it accurately reflects that you did have an account with us, it did charge-off, and it is now being reported as a zero balance due to your efforts to repay the obligation. In other words, the data being reported is accurate.

I trust that this resolves this matter. Please let me know if I can be of any further assistance.

Sincerely,

John Q. Banker

Senior VP and Chief Lending Officer

It would seem that based on his response, and Robert's earlier opinion on this, that I probably don't have a leg to stand on how they're reporting the "charged off" status and comments.

However, the HARD PULL is another matter. Should I respond to this email and tell him that I noticed the HP on my report over the weekend, and ask him by what permissable purpose they initiated the inquiry?

thanks,

Paul

Re: TCM Bank -- NOT reporting my settlement as agreed!

Shogun — Mon, 27 Jan 2014 18:01:41 GMT

My take on the situation.

They can mark it as a CO. But since it is a settlement, then they have to mark it at $0 balance. It's basically their choice of wording, and it's technically not reporting wrong.

The HP of your CR AFTER you have paid this account? That's a NO, NO! With it marked at a $0 balance, then you do not have an active account, or are seeking credit from them.

Re: TCM Bank -- NOT reporting my settlement as agreed!

Pigeyex — Mon, 27 Jan 2014 18:04:56 GMT

@Shogun wrote:
My take on the situation.

They can mark it as a CO. But since it is a settlement, then they have to mark it at $0 balance. It's basically their choice of wording, and it's technically not reporting wrong.

The HP of your CR AFTER you have paid this account? That's a NO, NO! With it marked at a $0 balance, then you do not have an active account, or are seeking credit from them.

Should I ask them (via email) by what legitimate permissable purpose they hard-pulled my account, after it was closed? Or just go ahead and report them with the credit bureaus? How would you respond to that e-mail if you were me, Shogun?

thanks,

Paul

Re: TCM Bank -- NOT reporting my settlement as agreed!

Shogun — Mon, 27 Jan 2014 18:09:37 GMT

How would I handle this? Well, I'd be polite and cheerful in writing from them. I would start with a GW asking for the removal of the TL. I would include the information concerning the HP of your CR in the GW, but I'd do it politely and gracefully.

Now why would I do that? Because I ultimately want this whole thing removed. So I wouldn't go in with threatening and demanding letters right off the bat. That would certainly not pave the road for any type of cooperation in the future.

Now, if after a few of these GWs there were no fruitful results, I'd go after the HP. But I wouldn't start with the big guns. Remember, play nice, until it's time to not play nice.

Re: TCM Bank -- NOT reporting my settlement as agreed!

Anonymous — Mon, 27 Jan 2014 18:11:01 GMT

I agree that it can be reported as a CO and there is nothing in the email stating otherwise. If there were you would have something to work with. What they did was legal.

As for the hard pull, I would email them and first politely ask about the HP and see what they say. If they say they have PP then you do have the ammunition to have it corrected.

Re: TCM Bank -- NOT reporting my settlement as agreed!

Pigeyex — Mon, 27 Jan 2014 18:13:19 GMT

@Shogun wrote:
How would I handle this? Well, I'd be polite and cheerful in writing from them. I would start with a GW asking for the removal of the TL. I would include the information concerning the HP of your CR in the GW, but I'd do it politely and gracefully.

Now why would I do that? Because I ultimately want this whole thing removed. So I wouldn't go in with threatening and demanding letters right off the bat. That would certainly not pave the road for any type of cooperation in the future.

Now, if after a few of these GWs there were no fruitful results, I'd go after the HP. But I wouldn't start with the big guns. Remember, play nice, until it's time to not play nice.

I've been playing nice since November, and this is where it's gotten me. They've now refused FOUR TIMES to do a GW delete, and seem to in fact be escalating things with the charge-off notation and now the hard-pull.

Re: TCM Bank -- NOT reporting my settlement as agreed!

Shogun — Mon, 27 Jan 2014 18:17:47 GMT

@Pigeyex wrote:
@Shogun wrote:
How would I handle this? Well, I'd be polite and cheerful in writing from them. I would start with a GW asking for the removal of the TL. I would include the information concerning the HP of your CR in the GW, but I'd do it politely and gracefully.

Now why would I do that? Because I ultimately want this whole thing removed. So I wouldn't go in with threatening and demanding letters right off the bat. That would certainly not pave the road for any type of cooperation in the future.

Now, if after a few of these GWs there were no fruitful results, I'd go after the HP. But I wouldn't start with the big guns. Remember, play nice, until it's time to not play nice.
I've been playing nice since November, and this is where it's gotten me. They've now refused FOUR TIMES to do a GW delete, and seem to in fact be escalating things with the charge-off notation and now the hard-pull.

Try at least one more time....

Re: TCM Bank -- NOT reporting my settlement as agreed!

Pigeyex — Mon, 27 Jan 2014 18:27:11 GMT

@Pigeyex wrote: . . . The Fair Credit Reporting Act prevents us from honoring your request to remove this trade line since it accurately reflects that you did have an account with us, it did charge-off, and it is now being reported as a zero balance due to your efforts to repay the obligation. In other words, the data being reported is accurate. . . .

It just frosts my a*s when they say this. No, there's nothing in the FCRA that requires them to do so, but there's nothing that prevents them from doing it if they wish, either. Otherwise, every time one of us got a GW deletion or a PFD, our creditors would be violating the Act.

Re: TCM Bank -- NOT reporting my settlement as agreed!

Anonymous — Mon, 27 Jan 2014 20:08:27 GMT

@Pigeyex wrote:
@Pigeyex wrote: . . . The Fair Credit Reporting Act prevents us from honoring your request to remove this trade line since it accurately reflects that you did have an account with us, it did charge-off, and it is now being reported as a zero balance due to your efforts to repay the obligation. In other words, the data being reported is accurate. . . .
It just frosts my a*s when they say this. No, there's nothing in the FCRA that requires them to do so, but there's nothing that prevents them from doing it if they wish, either. Otherwise, every time one of us got a GW deletion or a PFD, our creditors would be violating the Act.

Bring that point up to them if you haven't already. FCRA only says what they report has to be accurate, not that they have to report at all.