topic Response to OC letter... They send me back to the CRAs... Now what? in Rebuilding Your Credit

Response to OC letter... They send me back to the CRAs... Now what?

Anonymous — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 02:01:29 GMT

Here is the OC letter I sent to WFNNB on behalf of my wife after the three CRAs verified:

To Whom It May Concern:

I recently pulled my credit report fromExperian, Equifax, and TransUnion and noticed this account was listed on each of my reports as Charged Off. As I recall paying this account in full at a Lane Bryant retail location, I immediately disputed this information with Experian, Equifax, and TransUnion and the results of the investigation came back as “verified.”

Since I have disputed the account withthe credit bureaus, and you have verified it, I would like to see a copy of the records you have for this alleged account. Under the new FACTA laws, you are required to conduct an investigation on this account, and I am now requesting it.

In order to clear up this matter, I would like to see a complete account history, including all statements; records of all activity, payments, collection attempts; and any charges added for any reason. In short, I require any and all documentation pertaining to this account.

If you don't respond with the results of the investigation (as is required per the FCRA), I will assume you have no documentation and therefore you were negligent in providing the credit bureaus with accurate information. At this point, you would also be in violation of the FCRA merely for not responding within the 30-day period.

Please send all correspondence to:

Address

Sincerely

Ms Mike14

I just go their reply today:

Dear MS MIKE14,

Thank you for your recent inquiry to Card Holder Services. World Financial Network National Bank issues RETAIL LANE BRYANT credit card accounts and reponds to all credit related inquiries.

According to our records, as of 09/26/2008, your balance is $215.17. We report all of our accounts to the three national credit reporting agencies. Once we provide credit information to the credit bureau(s), it is their responsibility to record the information on the correct file. Because we are unable to process your request with the information available to us, we ask that you contactthe credit bureau reporting the discrepancy you noted and submit a dispute form with them. The credit bureau will then work with us to try to resove your question.

... (CRA phone #'s and websites listed)

We can only remove or change information that our company incorrectly supplied to the credit bureau. Any information that is correctly reporting will not be changed. We understand our customers may experience circumstances beyond their control which may cause their account to become past due. As an option, you may wish to submit a consumer statement to the credit bureau. This statement will not change your credit rating; however, it will explain to other potential creditors the reason why the account became past due.

If you have any further questions, please write to us at the address below. Please include your account number with all correspondence.

Sincerely,

Card Holder Services

So they didn't verify the debt in any way! Should I ask them to stop reporting, or write to the CRAs, include the letter from the OC and ask them to delete? Should that letter to the CRAs be sent CMRRR?

I initially disputed online. Let me know if any additional information is required. Thanks!

Message Edited by Mike14 on 10-06-2008 07:01 PM

Re: Response to OC letter... They send me back to the CRAs... Now what?

Veee — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 02:04:34 GMT

Wow, I'm waiting for one of these OC letters to come back to me, not yet 30 days ... I hope I get a better response from Providian ... that stinks! Sorry I have no advice to give but I'm looking forward to what others say so I'm prepared when I do get my response.

Veee

Re: Response to OC letter... They send me back to the CRAs... Now what?

RobertEG — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 04:45:48 GMT

Once the CRA has obtained "verification" from an OC, which has apparently occured (which is usually nothing that the word "verified"), you then have the right under section 611(a) of the FCRA to file a reinvestigation dispute with the CRA, which requires the CRA to "conduct a resonabable reinvestigation to determine whether the disputed information is accurate" The CRA must then provide to you all relevent information they receive from the OC in that reinvestigation.

If all that fails, your final recourse is to file a complaint with the FTC under FCRA 603(p) and 611(d). Lack of adequate reinvestigation efforts by the CRA in responding to you reinvestigation request will carry a lot of weight with the FTC.

Message Edited by RobertEG on 10-06-2008 09:45 PM

Re: Response to OC letter... They send me back to the CRAs... Now what?

Anonymous — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 14:39:28 GMT

So my next step should be to contact the CRAs? What do I say to them? That the OC could not validate so they should remove the account, or to reinvestigate? I suppose I should send them a copy of the letter from WFNNB, so online won't be an option. Should I send the CRA letters CMRRR? Thanks!

Re: Response to OC letter... They send me back to the CRAs... Now what?

Anonymous — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 23:06:57 GMT

Bump...

What should I ask the CRAs, delete or reinvestigate?

Re: Response to OC letter... They send me back to the CRAs... Now what?

Anonymous — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 17:48:51 GMT

Bump Can anyone comment on what letter should be written next? I want to mail it out as soon as possible. Thanks!

Updated: Response to OC letter... They send me back to the CRAs... Now what?

Anonymous — Sat, 11 Oct 2008 23:13:05 GMT

So I made some calls to both the OC and the CRAs. I wasn't able to get through to Equifax, but Experian and Transunion both told me they checked it using an automated system, and that I could send the letter I received and they will reinvestigate.

However, I called a few numbers for the OC (WFNNB), including the one on a notice from 2007 where they offered to settle for 50% of the balance due. I spoke to someone who had some records, but all she could tell me was that it was transferred to a CA called Plaza Associates. I think it was just sent to collections, not sold, as WFNNB is still reporting a chargeoff each month.

She said that since it was charged off in 2005 so was probably sent to several CAs, but NONE are reporting on any credit reports. We have also not received anything from Plaza Associates. Since I do not have a dunning letter, would it be detrimental to DV them, as they need not reply, and they aren't reporting anyway? Would I still be able to get ther CRAs to delete the TL, as WFNNB has sent mer a letter stating that the information is not available to them? Thanks!

Message Edited by Mike14 on 10-11-2008 04:13 PM

Re: Response to OC letter... They send me back to the CRAs... Now what?

RobertEG — Sun, 12 Oct 2008 04:36:18 GMT

The ability of a consumer to dispute directly with the OC rather than through the CRA is set forth in section 623(a)(8) of the FCRA. Section 623(E) sets the same 30 day period for their response that applies to CRAs under section 611(a). They are trying to require you to dispute only with the CRA, but you have ther right to do both. Dont let them blow you off by pushing everything back to the CRA.

Re: Response to OC letter... They send me back to the CRAs... Now what?

Anonymous — Mon, 13 Oct 2008 16:31:48 GMT

TransUnion told me I can fax my dispute and gave me a fax number. Should I fax it or also mail it? If it Should be mailed, should it be CMRRR?

Apparently, the OC transfered it to a CA, but never notified us. Should I contact them now, or wait till they make first contact? Can I get the OC's chargeoff removed without contacting the CA?

Re: Response to OC letter... They send me back to the CRAs... Now what?

upinflagstaff — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 13:53:58 GMT

Only send a fax if your machine will print a log of the faxed item. You still need a paper trail if you have to take further steps. If you mail it, send it CMRRR.

Updated: Response to OC letter... They send me back to the CRAs... Now what?

Anonymous — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 22:36:58 GMT

Update:

I did what they said and disputed with the CRAs. EX and TU came back verified. Still waiting for EQ, but I have a feeling they will verify too, so I have a letter ready to go to the OC once again asking them for their information regarding the debt, including what they provided to the CRAs. I close with a short ITS: I have no wish to involve the courts in a litigation process, but I will use all legal remedies at my disposal, should the need arise, to correct this inaccurate reporting.

Re: Updated: Response to OC letter... They send me back to the CRAs... Now what?

Anonymous — Wed, 12 Nov 2008 01:59:39 GMT

If you disputed with the OC - the OC disputes your version but does not provide any information to back up its claim, it is time to take the gloves off.

You can sue the OC for incorrect reporting in small court.

I would send an ITS letter to the OC stating that they are violating the FCRA and they have X days to A: provide you with records of the account or B: Remove the information or you will sue without further notice.

Re: Updated: Response to OC letter... They send me back to the CRAs... Now what?

Anonymous — Wed, 12 Nov 2008 02:17:21 GMT

So I should be a little more aggressive with my ITS? The rest of my letter essentially says what you've mentioned.

Re: Updated: Response to OC letter... They send me back to the CRAs... Now what?

Anonymous — Wed, 12 Nov 2008 02:24:47 GMT

An ITS should contain two pieces of information:

1.: the facts at the core of the dispute (i.e. I disputed your account reporting information and demanded you account statements as per FACTA, you replied to me ignoring my request, yadayada...)

2.: how to remediate: provide me the information requested or stop reporting within 7 days form receipt of this letter otherwise I will sue, I will complain to the BBB, to the AG and to the FTC.

Not aggressive, just cold facts.

Re: Updated: Response to OC letter... They send me back to the CRAs... Now what?

Anonymous — Wed, 12 Nov 2008 03:10:58 GMT

Here's the current letter:

Card Holder Services
Lane Bryant/World Financial Network National Bank
Po Box 182273
Columbus, OH 43218-2273

November 18, 2008
Re: Charge-off for Account #xxx

To Whom It May Concern:

I found the above-mentioned account on my credit reports and did not recall ever having this account. I first disputed the account with all three credit bureaus, and they all came back with the account as verified by you. On September 17, I sent a letter to World Financial Network National Bank asking for any and all proof that the account and debt was mine.

Your reply, dated September 27, was that your records show a balance of $215.17, but that you were “unable to process… [my] request with the information available” and for me to “contact the credit bureau reporting the discrepancy… and submit a dispute form with them.” I have enclosed a copy of your letter to me. I once again disputed the account with the three credit reporting bureaus, and once again, you verified the account with all three.

Please send me all information regarding this account, including the information used to verify the account with the credit reporting bureaus, within 15 days of receiving this letter, to the following address:

[Address removed]

If, as it appears to be from your previous letter, you do not have any records about this account available to you, I request that you delete it from all credit reporting agencies within 15 days of receiving this letter. I have no wish to involve the courts in a litigation process, but I will use all legal remedies at my disposal, should the need arise, to correct this inaccurate reporting.

Thank you,

Mrs Mike14

I will add some language about filing a lawsuit, and complaining to the BBB, AG, and FTC. WHat is the best way to word it?

Do I need to specifically mention FACTA? Should I only give them 7 days instead of 15? Also, I mailed Equifax's dispute letter several weeks after the other two, and have not yet received their response, but I have a feeling they will show the account as verified as well. Would it be problematic to go ahead and send the letter to WFNNB before receiving Equifax's reply, or should I just wait?

I assume I should send this CMRRR.

Re: Updated: Response to OC letter... They send me back to the CRAs... Now what?

Anonymous — Wed, 12 Nov 2008 04:21:48 GMT

Mike14,

I took the liberty to make some adjustments to your letter as a whole. Feel free to use whatever you see fit.

Re: Charge-off for Account #xxx

NOTICE OF FCRA VIOLATION AND INTENT TO SUE

To Whom It May Concern:

I found the above-mentioned account on my credit reports and did not recall ever having A BALANCE OUTSTANDING ON this account. I first disputed the account INFORMATION with all three credit bureaus, and they all stated the account was verified AS IS by YOU. On September 17, I sent YOU a letter asking for DOCUMENTATION ABOUT the account and THE ALLEGED REPORTED BALANCE.

Your reply, dated September 27, MENTIONS a balance of $215.17, but ALSO THAT you ARE "unable to process... [my] request with the information available" and for me to "contact the credit bureau reporting the discrepancy... and submit a dispute form with them." I have enclosed a copy of your letter. I once again disputed the account information with the three credit reporting bureaus, and once again, you verified the INACCURATE INFORMATION with all three BUREAUS.

REPORTING INCORRECT AND UNVERIFIABLE INFORMATION TO THE CREDIT REPORTING AGENCIES IS ILLEGAL AND CONSTITUTES A VIOLATION OF THE FAIR CREDIT REPORTING ACT, AS WELL AS OF FEDERAL AND STATE LAWS.

YOU HAVE TEN (10) DAYS FROM RECEIPT OF THIS LETTER TO:

Send me all information regarding this ALLEGED OUTSTANDING BALANCE, including ALL the information YOU used to verify THIS ALLEGED OUTSTANDING BALANCE with the credit reporting bureaus

AMEND AND REMOVE THE INCORRECT INFORMATION REGARDING THIS ACCOUNT from all credit reporting agencies.

Should you fail to comply with the above request, I shall file suit against you without further notice. At that point you will become liable for statutory damages, actual damages and attorney fees. I shall also immediately file complaints with the BBB and AG offices in my and your home states, the FTC and any other regulatory body.

I have no wish to involve the courts in a litigation process, but I will use all legal remedies at my disposal, should the need arise, to correct this inaccurate reporting.

Sincerely,

Mrs Mike14

[Address removed]

Re: Response to OC letter... They send me back to the CRAs... Now what?

RobertEG — Wed, 12 Nov 2008 07:31:31 GMT

IMHO, here is what you are entitled to do now under the FCRA.

Your letters are terrific!

But I would only caution that the FCRA only requries disclosure of procedures, and not discoivery of all documents relating to that procedure.

What you CAN do is set forth the groundwork for future legal discovery of their "verificatin" by using section 611(a)(6)(B)(iii) of the FCRA to establish their PROCESS of verification, as follows,

"if requested by the consumer, a description of the procedure used to determine the accurancy and completeness of the information shall be provided to the consumer by the agency.."

If that demand was not done in your initial dispute letter to the CRA under section 611(a)(1), then 611(a)(7) gives you the further right to subsequently demand they provide that "description of the the procedure used" to verify. They must respond to that later request within 15 days.

That is all legal maneauvering to set the stage for a law suit.

Initial verification by an OC or CA, as we all know, is pro-forma.

That is why I advise that any CRA initial dispute include within it a specific request under section 611(a)(6)(b)(iii) for, at the minimum a disclosure of the process used in any verification, and if not requested or provided, a renewed request under section 611(a)(7) for a disclosure of that process.

That is what your lawyer, or the FTC, will need in challenging the content of the "verification" provided.

Message Edited by RobertEG on 11-11-2008 11:20 PM

Message Edited by RobertEG on 11-11-2008 11:31 PM

Re: Response to OC letter... They send me back to the CRAs... Now what?

Anonymous — Wed, 12 Nov 2008 14:55:41 GMT

When we first disputed, we did it online as "balance paid in full" with each CRA. Once WFNNB sent me the letter stating they could not process my request, I sent a copy of it to the CRAs with a letter asking them to remove the TL. I did not ask for a description of the procedure used to verify (is that a MOV request?) Can I do that now? Should I send those letters and wait to hear back before sending WFNNB the ITS letter, or can I send all the letters at the same time?

I'm now thinking that I'll definitely need to wait to hear back from Equifax before asking for their verification procedure.

demed, your language is much stronger than mine, but if that's what it takes, that's what I'll send.

Re: Response to OC letter... They send me back to the CRAs... Now what?

Anonymous — Wed, 12 Nov 2008 16:36:53 GMT

Robert raises a good point about the PROCESS of verification, and keep in mind it applies to the CRA not the OC. In your relationship with the OC, you can ask everything you want, yet it doesn't mean you'll get it, but there are no boundaries or limitations set forth, as there would be in the relationship with CAs and CRAs - this is what gives you leeway to DEMAND the OC to prove the outstanding balance with much more documentation.

The ITS letter to the OC is not tied to the other processes - you can send it out while you wait for the other stuff. As said, feel free to tweak to your liking.

Re: Updated: Response to OC letter... They send me back to the CRAs... Now what?

Anonymous — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 18:54:56 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Mike14,

I took the liberty to make some adjustments to your letter as a whole. Feel free to use whatever you see fit.

Re: Charge-off for Account #xxx
NOTICE OF FCRA VIOLATION AND INTENT TO SUE
To Whom It May Concern:

I found the above-mentioned account on my credit reports and did not recall ever having A BALANCE OUTSTANDING ON this account. I first disputed the account INFORMATION with all three credit bureaus, and they all stated the account was verified AS IS by YOU. On September 17, I sent YOU a letter asking for DOCUMENTATION ABOUT the account and THE ALLEGED REPORTED BALANCE.

Your reply, dated September 27, MENTIONS a balance of $215.17, but ALSO THAT you ARE "unable to process... [my] request with the information available" and for me to "contact the credit bureau reporting the discrepancy... and submit a dispute form with them." I have enclosed a copy of your letter. I once again disputed the account information with the three credit reporting bureaus, and once again, you verified the INACCURATE INFORMATION with all three BUREAUS.

REPORTING INCORRECT AND UNVERIFIABLE INFORMATION TO THE CREDIT REPORTING AGENCIES IS ILLEGAL AND CONSTITUTES A VIOLATION OF THE FAIR CREDIT REPORTING ACT, AS WELL AS OF FEDERAL AND STATE LAWS.

YOU HAVE TEN (10) DAYS FROM RECEIPT OF THIS LETTER TO:
Send me all information regarding this ALLEGED OUTSTANDING BALANCE, including ALL the information YOU used to verify THIS ALLEGED OUTSTANDING BALANCE with the credit reporting bureaus
OR
AMEND AND REMOVE THE INCORRECT INFORMATION REGARDING THIS ACCOUNT from all credit reporting agencies.

Should you fail to comply with the above request, I shall file suit against you without further notice. At that point you will become liable for statutory damages, actual damages and attorney fees. I shall also immediately file complaints with the BBB and AG offices in my and your home states, the FTC and any other regulatory body.

I have no wish to involve the courts in a litigation process, but I will use all legal remedies at my disposal, should the need arise, to correct this inaccurate reporting.

Sincerely,

Mrs Mike14
[Address removed]

Thanks for your edits, and I will be using more or less all of them. It looks like the first part was simply updating the language to be about the balance, not the account, and you capitalized your changes. Is the other capitalization significant, expecially towards the bottom, or was it just to highlight more changes?

I plan to send the letter out CMRRR today. Thanks again