topic Re: CA is requesting more than original amount for PFD, should I go HIPAA route? in Rebuilding Your Credit

CA is requesting more than original amount for PFD, should I go HIPAA route?

Anonymous — Thu, 12 Nov 2015 19:36:47 GMT

Hello,

I sent a letter to California Business Bureau for a PFD request offering to pay the full amount of $800. This is my second time mailing them a letter and their first to respond. So they started calling me repeatedly and I was able to talk to them on the phone today. He said, "Yes you offered the full amount, but if I am going to do a PFD then you have to pay the incurred fees too which is now $1,200, not $800, but I will work with you and the best we can do is $1,100." He wouldn't budge and wouldn't provide confirmation in writing prior to payment (another user told me to just record the conversation if I go through with it which is great advise). He left his terrible offer on the table for 72 hours he said.

Now I am reading about the HIPAA removal process at Why Chat and am wondering if that is a better route. My big question though is, this is a medical bill from 5 years ago, will the HIPAA route work still? Before reading about HIPAA, I called the original hospital to see if I could pay them and they said it's been so long that it is so far out of their hands. Is there a chance that the CA already validated teh debt? When I first went to collections i made them a payment of $200.

My main goal of course is to remove it from my credit report. if I pay and they don't delete it, then I will have lost additional $300. By the way, a few months back they offered a settlement of $300, but I want it deleted which is why I offered the full amount, for better luck. But what a surprise, the debt colelctor was terrible on the phone and I'd rather not deal with him. He said I can talk to his supervisor if I don't want to deal with him, but I am sure she is a bigger shark.

Thank you in advance!

Re: CA is requesting more than original amount for PFD, should I go HIPAA route?

creditguy — Thu, 12 Nov 2015 19:57:11 GMT

I can't answer your question as far the HIPAA removal process but i will say this is a terrible offer. If you truly want the debt removed now then the call is yours to PFD. But if this debt is five years old you have passed the SOL in California for a lawsuit. The CA really has no leverage to get you to pay that amount unless they sense desperation. If it were me I'd say no deal, the debt will fall off in a few years, the ball is in their court to come back with a better offer. They are simply milking you on these incurred fees, what a joke. And finally if there is no deal in writing then there is no deal, never just take their word for it. Good Luck with whatever you decide to do.

Re: CA is requesting more than original amount for PFD, should I go HIPAA route?

Anonymous — Thu, 12 Nov 2015 20:16:59 GMT

Thank you, that was helpful info about the SOL. I just checked my report again and it was reported Sept 8, 2010. Since it's so old I don't think it's really hurting my score (it is my only account in collections). We want to buy a home next year so i was trying to be proactive, but now I am not sure if it's worth it....tough decision. I could always drive 1 hour to see them in person and "make the drop." I wonder how that would go over.

Re: CA is requesting more than original amount for PFD, should I go HIPAA route?

creditguy — Thu, 12 Nov 2015 20:29:48 GMT

If your going to buy a house it may be an issue, but maybe not, Hopefully you can learn more of the HIPAA process and get it worked out. But it should fall off in 2017 and with early exclusion you could possibly get it removed earlier. Regardless you have the upper hand dealing with them, they more than likely bought your debt for pennies on the dollar so even 50% of the debt would be a profit for them, so keep working them and don't mention you want to buy a house, you just simply want to clean up your file and move on. Determination and patience will get you there.

Re: CA is requesting more than original amount for PFD, should I go HIPAA route?

Anonymous — Thu, 12 Nov 2015 20:39:50 GMT

Thank you again. I am thinking maybe I wait it out and then see if the Lender asks me to pay it off. I did not mention anyhting about a home loan to him, thankfully. When he said $1,200 I laughed and said, "I'm not going to fall for that, you bought this debt for a fraction of this!"

It's just frustrating though because I can afford to pay it off now, and it's such a game to be played, it's terrible.

Re: CA is requesting more than original amount for PFD, should I go HIPAA route?

Anonymous — Thu, 12 Nov 2015 20:59:11 GMT

i did had to deal with something similiar to this back in the day when i was going through the pfd process. I had an old hospital bill and they agreed to pfd BUT i had to pay off another hospital bill that wasnt even on my credit report anymore cause it was past the 7 years. I had to pay both but it was worth it to me in the long run to make it dissapear.

Re: CA is requesting more than original amount for PFD, should I go HIPAA route?

RobertEG — Thu, 12 Nov 2015 21:00:26 GMT

Check out the terms set forth in your original contract with the creditor.

FDCPA 808(1) makes it an express violation for a debt collector to attempt to collect any amount, including any interest and fees, beyond the principal amount of the credit unless it is expressly authorized in the account agreement that created the debt or is authorized by law.

If your agreement with the OC did not include expresss provision for whatever fee they are attempting to collect, then you could assert a violation on their part of FDCPA 808(1).

Re: CA is requesting more than original amount for PFD, should I go HIPAA route?

Anonymous — Thu, 12 Nov 2015 21:11:13 GMT

YOU. ARE. AWESOME. Thank you so much! My original debt is with the hospital and, well, I was in labor at the time so I don't know if that was a clause. But I would bet that the CA doesn't know at all! Thank you, thank you, thank you!

Re: CA is requesting more than original amount for PFD, should I go HIPAA route?

Anonymous — Thu, 12 Nov 2015 21:15:02 GMT

They may be in violation but be careful and be prepared if you start to use words like violation and law etc etc, because they could shut down completely and not speak to you anymore. You will for sure not get any type of pfd and you will have to sit on that collection for 2 more years or however long it will be on your credit report.

Re: CA is requesting more than original amount for PFD, should I go HIPAA route?

Anonymous — Thu, 12 Nov 2015 21:51:41 GMT

Ahhh good point! Geeze, maybe I should go play a few hands of poker first. I gotta brush up on my game theory! Thanks for the tip!

Re: CA is requesting more than original amount for PFD, should I go HIPAA route?

SunriseEarth — Thu, 12 Nov 2015 22:46:47 GMT

Advocation of the so-called "HIPAA Method" is not permitted on the myFICO Forums, so you will need to consult outside resources for questions on that.

As for the PFD offer, I think it's worth looking into Robert's suggestion to see if this is a violation. If so, it might be worth a complaint to the CFPB, the BBB, and perhaps even the state AG's office.

Even if they can legitimately make this offer, I wouldn't take it on a time-barred debt. I'd probably throw them a really lowball offer to settle the debt and then send GW letters every month until they cave and delete the TL. However, it's entirely up to you ask far as how much having that item removed now is worth.

Re: CA is requesting more than original amount for PFD, should I go HIPAA route?

Anonymous — Thu, 19 Nov 2015 17:47:32 GMT

Well, bummer. The supervisor called me at work and asked if I was ready to pay off "The full amount you owe of $1,200" I told her that is not the full amount I owe, that I only owe $800. She sternly said, "No with fees and interest you owe $1,200." She would barely let me get a word in esdgewise so I told her what RobertEG said; "I read on the FTC's website that it is a violation of FDCPA 808(1) to collect on a debt for more than the original amount."

She was very rushed and just said, "So are you going to pay the full amount?"

I told her I would not pay $1,200 because that is more than I owe. I guess I will have to wait for it to fal off my credit report in two years and will have to send yo ua cease and desist letter?" (I was hoping that she'd agree to just the $800 I owe, honestly)

Her response was, "No need to send the letter, I'll note your account."

And then she hung up.

Darn, I really did just want to pay the $800. Her tone was so frenzied, it did not go as I expected. I am honestly surprised that she wouldn't offer $800 in full.

Re: CA is requesting more than original amount for PFD, should I go HIPAA route?

Anonymous — Thu, 19 Nov 2015 18:15:12 GMT

@creditguy wrote:
I can't answer your question as far the HIPAA removal process but i will say this is a terrible offer. If you truly want the debt removed now then the call is yours to PFD. But if this debt is five years old you have passed the SOL in California for a lawsuit. The CA really has no leverage to get you to pay that amount unless they sense desperation. If it were me I'd say no deal, the debt will fall off in a few years, the ball is in their court to come back with a better offer. They are simply milking you on these incurred fees, what a joke. And finally if there is no deal in writing then there is no deal, never just take their word for it. Good Luck with whatever you decide to do.

Exactly! As soon as they smell blood in the water they will dig in. ALWAYS try to negotiate from a position of strength, not weakness or desperation. If the first thing you bring up is your desire to "get this off my reports", you've just filled the tank with blood, and the sharks will begin circling. The first thing out of your mouth when trying to negotiate a deal should be the phrase "this is a time barred debt" - let them know immediately that you *know* they really have NO strong bargaining position to begin with.

I would never get hung up on not getting it in writing. A verbal agreement is fully binding under the law and they ARE recording the conversation - that means you may freely record it as well.

Re: CA is requesting more than original amount for PFD, should I go HIPAA route?

Anonymous — Thu, 19 Nov 2015 18:24:52 GMT

OP, read up on collections in mortgage section. I thought I read that FHA loans dont require collections under 1k to be paid and something else about medical not being as big of a factor.

Re: CA is requesting more than original amount for PFD, should I go HIPAA route?

Anonymous — Thu, 19 Nov 2015 18:26:21 GMT

Yeah, I definitely didn't play my hand to its full potential. Hopefully others dealing with California Business Bureau will read this and have better luck! In the end, CBB loses too because I was offering to pay the full amount. I am still a little baffled that it was $1,200 or nothing. (especially when they offered $300 several months ago) This is my only collection on my credit report (it's from 2010) so we will see what happens when I go for a mortgage. \_(ツ)_/¯

Re: CA is requesting more than original amount for PFD, should I go HIPAA route?

Anonymous — Thu, 19 Nov 2015 18:28:30 GMT

Thanks, work_in_progress2, that is what I am hoping for! I will update again here in a few months for posterity so that others can be helped.

Re: CA is requesting more than original amount for PFD, should I go HIPAA route?

Hokies2379 — Thu, 19 Nov 2015 20:09:59 GMT

@SunriseEarth wrote:
Advocation of the so-called "HIPAA Method" is not permitted on the myFICO Forums, .

I've always wondered why this is, but never cared enough to go searching for the reason.

Re: CA is requesting more than original amount for PFD, should I go HIPAA route?

Rebuilding69 — Fri, 20 Nov 2015 01:35:51 GMT

It's 1200 or nothing because they still have 2 years to screw with you & think you will give in before that timeframe.

Re: CA is requesting more than original amount for PFD, should I go HIPAA route?

Anonymous — Fri, 20 Nov 2015 01:55:00 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Yeah, I definitely didn't play my hand to its full potential. Hopefully others dealing with California Business Bureau will read this and have better luck! In the end, CBB loses too because I was offering to pay the full amount. I am still a little baffled that it was $1,200 or nothing. (especially when they offered $300 several months ago) This is my only collection on my credit report (it's from 2010) so we will see what happens when I go for a mortgage. \_(ツ)_/¯

Mortgage lenders just care that the debt is settled and not open. They dont insist that it be PIF.

I do understand your line of reasoning in that if it was off your reports you would have a good chance of better terms.

If it were my debt and I wanted it settled, I would take into consideration it was time-barred, so their chance of getting the courts to help recover the amount is over, so the debt is devalued.

The closer it gets to the 7 year mark when it will not be shown on standard CRs, the lower the value. The longer it goes unpaid, the lower the probability it will be paid, from a CA perspective.

My suggestion - let them cool off for a few weeks. If you have the 300 offer in writing, dig that out, copy it, and send that by mail to them (CMRRR) and offer to pay that immediately after their written acceptance for full settlement. Put a time limit on the offer, like 7 days. If that doesnt work or it is ignored, consider another offer of 400.

There is plenty of time to get it handled and you shouldnt feel rushed. When the mortgage lender pulls your CRs and its removed, it wont say 'removed 12 months ago', it will just be gone. So no advantage if its gone 12 months ago or 1 month.

When you get a settlement, then pursue the whychat method.

By all means, do not drive an hour each direction to confront them in their home territory with a home team crowd. I dont see anything good coming from that visit.

HTH

Re: CA is requesting more than original amount for PFD, should I go HIPAA route?

Anonymous — Fri, 20 Nov 2015 13:45:35 GMT

WOW! I just got an alert through MyFico that California Budiness Bureau added an Installment Loan Inquiry to my credit report! Can they do that?! What recourse do I have?!