topic Re: Help With Debt Validation Process in Rebuilding Your Credit

Help With Debt Validation Process

odjohnson3 — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 02:57:25 GMT

Hey Gang. Im currently trying to help someone out with removing some collection accounts from their credit report. Ive read over a few debt validation posts and Im trying to apply that method. For the collection accounts in question, there was never a dunning letter sent for one of the accounts. For the other, its too old to recall wether or not there was one sent. I have sent debt validation letter to both collection agencies. After 2 weeks of waiting, Ive sent dipsutes to the CRAs for the collection accounts as well.

Im still playing the wait game for the CRA to finish their dispute process. Its been a month since I sent the debt validation letter to both collection agencies and ive received nothing. From my understanding, they dont have a time frame to respond but can they continue collection activity (credit reporting) without responding to the debt validation. Ive read a that the debt validation process has to be within 30 days of receiving the dunning letter, but for one of these accounts, the dunning letter was never recieved. The collection account just appeared on the credit report so I guess this would be kinda like initial communication. For the other collection account, 5 years old, id think at some time they may have sent one....its 5 years old and the collection agency doesnt send bills for it, so, who knows.

Just tryna get some help on how to proceed if these accounts are "verified" by the CRA (typical)....but no information is ever provided by the collection agency for the debt validation request. Can the collection agency continue to report without providing debt validation? How would/ do I proceed? If im lucky, the collector will volunteeringly remove the account, which was the case with one that I tackled last month...Im jus looking for direction since its almost that time....id like to have a game plan on how to proceed.

Thanks for any help....its much appreciated.

Re: Help With Debt Validation Process

RobertEG — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 05:42:19 GMT

By "continuing to report," do you mean reply back to the CRA with respect to verification of the accuracy of the disputed information, correction of prior reporting, regular monthly reporting, or some other reporting?

Yes, if they never provided dunning notice, your DV would have been timely, and thus invoke a cease collection bar.

However, whether an action is a prohibited collection activity based on a cease collection bar is dependent upon what the action is, and how the case law has interpreted that type of action.

Re: Help With Debt Validation Process

odjohnson3 — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 05:53:28 GMT

Im not really sure how to answer that.....

Its never been disputed up until now....so if the CRA verifies and the collection agency doesnt send me a debt validation then I guess there would be 2 answers, think?

1) regular monthly reporting.....which from my interpretation of your response should be prohibited....or maybe im misinterpreting

2) The alleged verification of the accuracy of the disputed information.....I say this because its allegedly verified by the CRA, however I cant seem to get a response for the debt validation letter I sent before even disputing....Kinda like, for lack of better words..."I asked first and you couldnt give me anything but you want me to believe you verified this same account with the CRA."

Sorry if im misinterpreting....im not all that savy with legal word play lol.....If im still missing it, would you mind simplifying your response please....Im very grateful for the reply....Just tryna make sure I understand it correctly and also, are there any steps I can take moving forward?

Re: Help With Debt Validation Process

odjohnson3 — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 05:59:11 GMT

"whether an action is a prohibited collection activity based on a cease collection bar is dependent upon what the action is"

Please ellaborate..Im all confused

Re: Help With Debt Validation Process

Anonymous — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 14:47:53 GMT

Sending a DV letter does not require the CA to send you validation nor does it stop them from reporting the collection to the CRA what it does is stops them from actively trying to collect the debt

Re: Help With Debt Validation Process

odjohnson3 — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 14:50:02 GMT

But reporting to a CRA is considered collection activity , so how is that?

Re: Help With Debt Validation Process

Anonymous — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 15:03:00 GMT

@odjohnson3 wrote:
But reporting to a CRA is considered collection activity , so how is that?

Have they updated their reports subsequent to the DV request? Most CA's do not report every single month.

Re: Help With Debt Validation Process

Anonymous — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 15:18:30 GMT

@odjohnson3 wrote:
But reporting to a CRA is considered collection activity , so how is that?

I believe that is a gray area and may not be supported by case law, hopefully RobertEG will respond to this as he is far more versed on this than most.

Re: Help With Debt Validation Process

Anonymous — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 17:03:22 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@odjohnson3 wrote:
But reporting to a CRA is considered collection activity , so how is that?
I believe that is a gray area and may not be supported by case law, hopefully RobertEG will respond to this as he is far more versed on this than most.

Initial reporting to a CRA is considered collection activity. Updating a prior report is also considered collection activity. Responding to a dispute is not collection activity (or is a gray area), as they are required by law to re-investigate disputes.

Re: Help With Debt Validation Process

RobertEG — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 17:49:55 GMT

The FDCPA mandates that a debt collector must "cease collection of the debt, or any disputed portion thereof" if they receive a timely DV until they have first provided the requested debt verification.

Any action they take could theoretically be considered as involving "collection of the debt."

However, some actions are mandated by statute, such as

(1) investigation of a dispute under the FCRA adn response back to the CRA;

(2) notifying a CRA when a consumer has filed a dispute, including any direct dispute (FDCPA 807(8))

(3) prompt update of any previously reported information if it has changed and is no longer accurate (FCRA 623(a)(2)).

(4) if the consumer contests only a portion of the debt, then the cease collection bar does not extend to the uncontested portion (FDCPA 809(b))

Thus, there are actions that become their own violations if not conducted, and thus are not considered a violation. If interpretation is involved, then it is ultimately up to a judge to make a determination as to whehter or not a given action is a violation of the cease collection bar.

Re: Help With Debt Validation Process

odjohnson3 — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 20:13:47 GMT

The CRA has updated the reporting to "in dispute" but I believe thats in reference to me disputing with the credit bureau, not behing the debt validation request.

Re: Help With Debt Validation Process

odjohnson3 — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 20:18:42 GMT

Thats the thing, if ive never receieved a dunning notice, their reporting should be froven until the debt validation is provided.

They are responding to a dispute on an account that shouldnt be listed to begin with provided theyve never sent a dunning notice, it jus showed up on a credit report

Re: Help With Debt Validation Process

odjohnson3 — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 20:28:08 GMT

@RobertEG wrote:
The FDCPA mandates that a debt collector must "cease collection of the debt, or any disputed portion thereof" if they receive a timely DV until they have first provided the requested debt verification.

Any action they take could theoretically be considered as involving "collection of the debt."
However, some actions are mandated by statute, such as
(1) investigation of a dispute under the FCRA adn response back to the CRA;
(2) notifying a CRA when a consumer has filed a dispute, including any direct dispute (FDCPA 807(8))
(3) prompt update of any previously reported information if it has changed and is no longer accurate (FCRA 623(a)(2)).
(4) if the consumer contests only a portion of the debt, then the cease collection bar does not extend to the uncontested portion (FDCPA 809(b))

Thus, there are actions that become their own violations if not conducted, and thus are not considered a violation. If interpretation is involved, then it is ultimately up to a judge to make a determination as to whehter or not a given action is a violation of the cease collection bar.S
Thanks a lot for the info Robert....Its very helpful.

Sounds like I have a few things in my favor, but how do I proceed IF these accounts are "verified" and continue to be reported without me receiving any debt validation/verification from the debt collector?

Re: Help With Debt Validation Process

RobertEG — Thu, 04 Aug 2016 16:54:11 GMT

If you have filed a dispute with the CRA and the asserted inaccuracy was the legitimacy of the debt, if the debt collector sent verification of accuracy back to the CRA, which is presumed to be the case if the CRA verified the accuracy of the disputed information, then the debt collector HAS effectively verified the debt.

However, under the separate DV process, that statement of verification must be sent to the consumer, so technically they have not yet verified the request for debt validation.

But substantively, they have apparently done so.

You could pursue any activity they take as a violation of the cease collection bar until such time as they formally send debt verification to you, and possible collect stautory damages under the FDCPA for an asserted violation of their cease collection bar, but that is a secondary issue to that of credit reporting. REsolution of that issue will not require deletion of their collection, which is apparently your goal.

It appears that they can and will be able to verify, so you are stuck with the reported collection, which must be addressed on its merits.

Personally, I would now send a PFD offer. Pursuing issues relating to their verification procedure when you apparently do not contest the legitimacy of the debt would not be my recommended next step, as you need their good-will.

Re: Help With Debt Validation Process

odjohnson3 — Thu, 04 Aug 2016 17:03:52 GMT

OK, thanks a lot for the infor Robert. i greatly appreciate it

Re: Help With Debt Validation Process

Anonymous — Fri, 05 Aug 2016 03:37:31 GMT

Also if any of those accounts were not updating every month by disputing if they stay they will update and hit your score as if they were new.