topic Re: AMEX refuses to CHARGE-OFF even with FULL PAYMENT in Rebuilding Your Credit

AMEX refuses to CHARGE-OFF even with FULL PAYMENT

Anonymous — Thu, 07 Jun 2018 00:21:40 GMT

I owe AMEX about $12000 on 3 cards (2 of them business, 1 personal) and the debt will expire in Dec 2021.

I offered to pay them in full the Credit Bureau department suggested that I talk to Research dept (all of these people are Indians) to see if they will re-open the account if I pay in full so they will not be charged off.

I spoke to the Indian woman in research department and she refused to reopen any of the accounts. I have no incentive to pay in full if the account will still be charged-off, it will still make my score suffer greatly.

Has anyone had any luck with AMEX? Please advice, any help will be greatly appreciated.

Re: AMEX refuses to CHARGE-OFF even with FULL PAYMENT

gdale6 — Thu, 07 Jun 2018 00:25:04 GMT

No OC is going to remove the CO status, its an accounting maneuver and once it happens said account is always a CO going forward. If its updating monthly its keeping your Fico depressed so I would advise you settle the matter with them. If its past your states SOL you may be able to settle for less than the full amount.

Re: AMEX refuses to CHARGE-OFF even with FULL PAYMENT

pipeguy — Thu, 07 Jun 2018 00:25:53 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I owe AMEX about $12000 on 3 cards (2 of them business, 1 personal) and the debt will expire in Dec 2021.

I offered to pay them in full the Credit Bureau department suggested that I talk to Research dept (all of these people are Indians) to see if they will re-open the account if I pay in full so they will not be charged off.

I spoke to the Indian woman in research department and she refused to reopen any of the accounts. I have no incentive to pay in full if the account will still be charged-off, it will still make my score suffer greatly.

Has anyone had any luck with AMEX? Please advice, any help will be greatly appreciated.

If you pay in full you will be able to reestablish credit with AmEx at a later date, if you don't they'll blacklist you forever or maybe just 20 years. That being said your "incentive" should be to settle your debts.

Re: AMEX refuses to CHARGE-OFF even with FULL PAYMENT

Anonymous — Thu, 07 Jun 2018 15:08:14 GMT

AMEX Blacklist really means nothing to me lol, there are plenty of other good credit cards.

My primary concern is my credit score. This charge-off will depress my score even if I paid in FULL.

Anyone with experience on tackling this? Please help

thank you

Re: AMEX refuses to CHARGE-OFF even with FULL PAYMENT

MakingProgress — Thu, 07 Jun 2018 17:22:07 GMT

If you pay it off, you MIGHT at a later date be able to have them remove the account from your CR with a goodwill request.

I'm curious, you say the debt is with Amex and is charged off. Was it sold to a debt collector? If so is there also a collections account on your CR?

Re: AMEX refuses to CHARGE-OFF even with FULL PAYMENT

RobertEG — Thu, 07 Jun 2018 18:08:01 GMT

A charge-off is reported under two separate portions of your credit report.

A CO can be reported under your Payment History Profile for each month that it is your delinquency status for that month.

It can also, while the debt currently remains delinquent (unpaid) be reported as the current account status.

Once the debt is paid, the current status MUST be updated to a non-delinquency status, such as Paid, or Paid (settled) for less.

However, update of current status to a non-delinquency status does not remove any of the prior payment history profile derogs.

That applies to monthly delinquencies, such as a reported 120-day late, and a CO.

In fact, CRA reporting policy clearly instructs creditors and debt collectors not to delete based on payment of the debt.

For scoring purposes, a creditor or debt collector can continue to update their prior reporting as long as the debt remains unpaid by stating that the current status remains one of currently delinquent, and add a payment history profile update for the prior and current months.

That effectively extends the period of delinquency, and thus effects scoring.

Once paid, the mandatory update of the current status stops the bleeding, and thereafter the scoring does not extend the period of account or collection delinquency scoring.

The creditor is acting in compliance with CRA reporting policy and their credit reporting agreement with the CRA.

Re-opening of a closed revolving account is a totally different issue.

It is a decision made as to whether they wish to permit continued charges on an account that either has current or prior derogatory history.

It is a business decision made by the creditor based on their risk assessment, and is totally discretionary on their part.

Most creditors will decline to permit new debt on accounts with serious derogatory history, such as having reached a charge-off status.

They normally requrire review via their standard re-application process.

Re: AMEX refuses to CHARGE-OFF even with FULL PAYMENT

Anonymous — Thu, 07 Jun 2018 18:40:51 GMT

RobertEG - thank you for the detailed explanation.
You stated that CRA ask creditors not to delete previous entries. However, we hear all the time that people did PFD settlements with OC and CA.

How is that working?

I understand the part of them not wishing to reopen the accounts. Thats entirely a RISK management decision on their part.

But PFD happens often with creditors. Or is AMEX not doing this?

Re: AMEX refuses to CHARGE-OFF even with FULL PAYMENT

RobertEG — Thu, 07 Jun 2018 18:59:43 GMT

It is not a violation of the FCRA for a creditor or debt collector to delete prior reporting.

Credit reporting is optional. The FCRA mandates that once a furnishers chooses to report to a CRA, the information must not knowingly be inaccurate. FCRA 623(A)(1). Deletion of reporting cannot comprise knowingly inaccurate reporting.

The CRA policy is a separate business policy on their part.

They sell credit reports, and it is clearly in their business interest that the information they sell be as complete as possible.

Subjective deletion of otherwise accurate information, if carried to extreme, would seriously affect the value of credit report information that they sell to others.

Thus, their credit reporting manual, titled the Credit Reporting Resource Guide, clearly states their reporting policy that furnishers are NOT to delete based on payment of the debt. That policy is also incorporated into their credit reporting agreements.

Knowlingly violating the terms of their reporting agreement could result in termination of reporting ability of that party by the CRA.

However, when a furnisher reports deletion to a CRA, they are not required to provide any specific reason for the deletion.

Thus, the CRA has no effective way to know that a deletion might be based only on a good-will grant of deletion of otherwise accurate info.

Thus, the CRA policy is effectively toothless. I am not aware of any CRA termination of reporting agreements based on violation of the CRA reporting manual policy of non-deletion based on payment of the debt.

Some furnishers firmly follow the non-deletion policy, but if they do delete, it is no a violation of statute or regulation.

Some debt collectors (e.g., Midland) have even gone so far as to publicly post a policy of deletion of collections based on payment of the debt if the debt is at least two years from DOFD. As far as I know, the CRAs have not terminated reporting agreements with such debt collectors.........

Re: AMEX refuses to CHARGE-OFF even with FULL PAYMENT

Anonymous — Thu, 07 Jun 2018 19:21:03 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I owe AMEX about $12000 on 3 cards (2 of them business, 1 personal) and the debt will expire in Dec 2021.

I offered to pay them in full the Credit Bureau department suggested that I talk to Research dept (all of these people are Indians) to see if they will re-open the account if I pay in full so they will not be charged off.

I spoke to the Indian woman in research department and she refused to reopen any of the accounts. I have no incentive to pay in full if the account will still be charged-off, it will still make my score suffer greatly.

Has anyone had any luck with AMEX? Please advice, any help will be greatly appreciated.

"the debt wil expire" - what does that mean?

When did the account(s) go delinquent?

Are they charged off now?

Re: AMEX refuses to CHARGE-OFF even with FULL PAYMENT

Anonymous — Fri, 08 Jun 2018 01:04:21 GMT

your message got cut-off

Do you or anyone else know if there is a way to get AMEX to remove charge-off from the account?

Re: AMEX refuses to CHARGE-OFF even with FULL PAYMENT

rcsoco — Sat, 09 Jun 2018 02:41:43 GMT

A debt never expires!

Re: AMEX refuses to CHARGE-OFF even with FULL PAYMENT

silver_idle — Sat, 09 Jun 2018 12:58:10 GMT

Not paying on a debt even after the 7 years has passed doesn't release you from owing the debt. If you don't pay the debt, it will hold your score down and prevent you from being able to apply for credit until it is paid or has fallen off your CR. Paying it also opens the possibly of sending a good will request to them but they don't have to remove the item if it's reported correctly.

Re: AMEX refuses to CHARGE-OFF even with FULL PAYMENT

MyDataMyChoice — Sat, 09 Jun 2018 15:32:10 GMT

Debts 'expire'

They DO expire if they creditor does not obtain a judgement within the statute of limitation... do they need to forget about the debt.. NO... but they have no recourse after it is past the Statue of Limitations for your state...and credit reporting DOFD 7+ years

If you make it past the statute of limitations...you just gotta wait for the DOFD to expire....

curious if you did a SNAIL Mail dispute with bureaus stating it is past statue of limitations (include copy of statute) if it would stop reporting... and or perhaps even be deleted

Re: AMEX refuses to CHARGE-OFF even with FULL PAYMENT

RobertEG — Sat, 09 Jun 2018 18:23:33 GMT

It depends upon semantics of what is meant by expiration.

Expiration of SOL results in expiration of the ability of the owner to obtain a civil judgment ordering the repayment of the debt.

Expiration of SOL does not, per se, result in expiration of the debt. The owner can still, unless some other action has terminated the debt, such as BK, cancellation, or some other privison of state law, continue to attempt collection of the debt.

State SOL provisions are totally separate from credit report exclusion of adverse information reported to a CRA.

Expiration of SOL does not preclude continued credit reporting, which are excluded based on federal exclusion provisions set forth in FCRA 605(a). Derogs reported by an original creditor will remain, regardless of state SOL, for the same period of no later than 7 years from DOFD for monthly delinquencies, and no later than 7 years plus 180 days for a reported charge-off.

Re: AMEX refuses to CHARGE-OFF even with FULL PAYMENT

Anonymous — Sun, 10 Jun 2018 18:15:29 GMT

Well if they unwilling or unable to remove the charge-off then perhaps I should settle for 65%

Whats the incentive to pay 100%?

I do not believe the difference on my score will be much different, please advise.

Also, I have read about people on these boards who settled for less than owed and got new AMEX card just a few years later.

Please advise

Thank you

Re: AMEX refuses to CHARGE-OFF even with FULL PAYMENT

Anonymous — Sun, 10 Jun 2018 18:19:15 GMT

I'm not sure how old the debt is, but paying off charge offs remain negative for 7 yrs so never pay off charge offs unless they agree to a pay for delete which they rarely do

Re: AMEX refuses to CHARGE-OFF even with FULL PAYMENT

Anonymous — Sun, 10 Jun 2018 18:27:33 GMT

I've been a amex prg holder since 2011 and they are very tough to get back in the family with them, they have the strickest policies out there. Personally I would focus on building your current cards and let that age off. Blacklist is the norm but perhaps there have been some changes. Hope this helps.

Re: AMEX refuses to CHARGE-OFF even with FULL PAYMENT

RobertEG — Sun, 10 Jun 2018 23:02:07 GMT

There are legit reasons to still pay a debt even if the creditor will not do a pay for deletion of the charge off.

Paying removes any issue of civil action, reduces the debt balance to $0 and thus improves % util if a revolving debt, ceases further updates of the current status as remaining delinquent, and thus continuing to affect scoring by continued and recent delinquency, prevents referral or sale of the debt to a debt collector,and thus potential reporting of a collection, and clearly looks better upon a manual review if you app for new credit.

Re: AMEX refuses to CHARGE-OFF even with FULL PAYMENT

Anonymous — Sun, 10 Jun 2018 23:10:12 GMT

It sounds good on paper but a delinquency is a derog and will always hurt your score, pay or no pay has no impact on improving your score if that was the case then most consumer's would pay off old debt. My advice would be to watch some you tube videos my recommendation is Brandon Weaver I'm not affiliated but has some solid plans to help you. Good luck

Re: AMEX refuses to CHARGE-OFF even with FULL PAYMENT

Anonymous — Mon, 11 Jun 2018 03:02:05 GMT

If I pay the balance in full or Settle with them, would it improve my score in a few months or will it be not improved until these fall off after 5-7 years?

I have no other negatives on my account except these 3 AMEX