topic Re: Collection Agency refuses mail... in Rebuilding Your Credit

Collection Agency refuses mail...

Anonymous — Wed, 26 Jun 2019 21:52:45 GMT

I have sent half a dozen letters to the collection agency who is trying to collect on a medical debt for $250. Every letter I have sent comes back with a yellow USPS barcode sticker that says "Sender Refused". What would be the best couse of action to take on this? Do I have any ground to stand on with CRA if I challenge this? EQ is the only CRA it shows up on. One last note, it is 3 1/2 years old. I have scoured these pages and cant seem to find any info about a CA denying mail. Thanks for any input on this.

Re: Collection Agency refuses mail...

FireMedic1 — Wed, 26 Jun 2019 22:16:07 GMT

Whats the name of the CA?

Re: Collection Agency refuses mail...

RobertEG — Wed, 26 Jun 2019 22:18:29 GMT

Did they ever send you a dunning notice?

Re: Collection Agency refuses mail...

Anonymous — Thu, 27 Jun 2019 03:06:52 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I have sent half a dozen letters to the collection agency who is trying to collect on a medical debt for $250. Every letter I have sent comes back with a yellow USPS barcode sticker that says "Sender Refused". What would be the best couse of action to take on this? Do I have any ground to stand on with CRA if I challenge this? EQ is the only CRA it shows up on. One last note, it is 3 1/2 years old. I have scoured these pages and cant seem to find any info about a CA denying mail. Thanks for any input on this.

Save those envelopes unopened. I hope at least one of them was demanding validation of the debt pursuant to Fair Debt Collection Practices Act (FDCPA). If so, then you have the Collection Agency right where you want them.

First, FDCPA states that if you request Validation of the debt (VOD) within 30 days of the collector's first communication to you then the collector must stop all collection actions until VOD is provided. Second, continued collection action (and this means sending you any demand for payment) would be a violation of FDCPA, entitling you to up to $1,000 in Statutory Damages. You would file suit in your local courts. Expect them to claim to have never recieved the Validation request, at which point you hand the unopened envelope containing the VOD request to the Judge and ask the Judge to open it. The envelope will contain your VOD request and the envelope would be marked by the Post Office as "Refused".

Now comes the fun - you will give them a lesson in the "Willful Blindness Rule" elaborated in United States v Jewell 532 F.2d 697 (1976). Basically, Jewell states the following:

Case Name: United States v. Jewell
Citation: 532 F.2d 697 (1976)

Facts: Jewell was convicted of knowingly transporting marijuana in his car from Mexico. The pot was hidden in a secret compartment behind the rear seat. There was evidence that Jewell deliberately avoided positive knowledge in order to avoid responsibility (“Willful Blindness”). The trial court judge gave a jury instruction that defendant is guilty if the government shows, beyond a reasonable doubt, that (even though he was not actually aware) his ignorance was solely because he made a conscious purpose to disregard what was in the vehicle to avoid learning the truth.

Defendant’s argument: The state needs to prove that Jewell knowingly brought and possessed the marijuana into the US. The MPC requires the state to prove that the defendant is “aware of a high probability of its existence.”

State’s argument: Jewell interprets “knowingly” to narrow and is not consistent with the purpose of the Drug Control Act. A narrow interpretation would allow deliberate ignorance as a defense.

Holding: Upheld the judge’s instruction and the defendant’s conviction.

Source: http://www.miblaw.com/lawschool/united-states-v-jewell/

Applying it to your case, when a person sends a letter to a business, in the ordinary course of a business operations the business personnel will accept the letter, open it, read it and act on the contents of the letter. In this case, the CA is committing "Willful Blindness" by refusing to accept its mail because the mail may contain something they don't want to know about.

Re: Collection Agency refuses mail...

vntrsc — Thu, 27 Jun 2019 07:23:46 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
I have sent half a dozen letters to the collection agency who is trying to collect on a medical debt for $250. Every letter I have sent comes back with a yellow USPS barcode sticker that says "Sender Refused". What would be the best couse of action to take on this? Do I have any ground to stand on with CRA if I challenge this? EQ is the only CRA it shows up on. One last note, it is 3 1/2 years old. I have scoured these pages and cant seem to find any info about a CA denying mail. Thanks for any input on this.
Save those envelopes unopened. I hope at least one of them was demanding validation of the debt pursuant to Fair Debt Collection Practices Act (FDCPA). If so, then you have the Collection Agency right where you want them.

First, FDCPA states that if you request Validation of the debt (VOD) within 30 days of the collector's first communication to you then the collector must stop all collection actions until VOD is provided. Second, continued collection action (and this means sending you any demand for payment) would be a violation of FDCPA, entitling you to up to $1,000 in Statutory Damages. You would file suit in your local courts. Expect them to claim to have never recieved the Validation request, at which point you hand the unopened envelope containing the VOD request to the Judge and ask the Judge to open it. The envelope will contain your VOD request and the envelope would be marked by the Post Office as "Refused".

Now comes the fun - you will give them a lesson in the "Willful Blindness Rule" elaborated in United States v Jewell 532 F.2d 697 (1976). Basically, Jewell states the following:

Case Name: United States v. Jewell
Citation: 532 F.2d 697 (1976)
Facts: Jewell was convicted of knowingly transporting marijuana in his car from Mexico. The pot was hidden in a secret compartment behind the rear seat. There was evidence that Jewell deliberately avoided positive knowledge in order to avoid responsibility (“Willful Blindness”). The trial court judge gave a jury instruction that defendant is guilty if the government shows, beyond a reasonable doubt, that (even though he was not actually aware) his ignorance was solely because he made a conscious purpose to disregard what was in the vehicle to avoid learning the truth.
Defendant’s argument: The state needs to prove that Jewell knowingly brought and possessed the marijuana into the US. The MPC requires the state to prove that the defendant is “aware of a high probability of its existence.”
State’s argument: Jewell interprets “knowingly” to narrow and is not consistent with the purpose of the Drug Control Act. A narrow interpretation would allow deliberate ignorance as a defense.
Holding: Upheld the judge’s instruction and the defendant’s conviction.

Source: http://www.miblaw.com/lawschool/united-states-v-jewell/

Applying it to your case, when a person sends a letter to a business, in the ordinary course of a business operations the business personnel will accept the letter, open it, read it and act on the contents of the letter. In this case, the CA is committing "Willful Blindness" by refusing to accept its mail because the mail may contain something they don't want to know about.

The OP should inform us as to whether or not he sent a timely (within 30 days of the initial communication) validation request. If it was timely, has the CA continued collection efforts?

Re: Collection Agency refuses mail...

Anonymous — Thu, 27 Jun 2019 18:41:58 GMT

It might be a good idea for the OP to google the "HIPPA Process". Not saying others advice is wrong, just giving another option for OP to look at.

Re: Collection Agency refuses mail...

FireMedic1 — Fri, 28 Jun 2019 00:17:36 GMT

Why not call and ask why they wont accept the mail? Kinda simple.

Re: Collection Agency refuses mail...

Anonymous — Fri, 28 Jun 2019 15:27:43 GMT

Why do that when he has a quick $1,000 payday coming if he lets the CA continue. The damage on their end is already done.

Re: Collection Agency refuses mail...

FireMedic1 — Fri, 28 Jun 2019 16:11:56 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Why do that when he has a quick $1,000 payday coming if he lets the CA continue. The damage on their end is already done.

I'm aware of this.

Re: Collection Agency refuses mail...

FireMedic1 — Fri, 28 Jun 2019 16:13:57 GMT

I would recommend that you speak to the FTC regarding this matter. The FTC is the agency that enforces the Fair Debt Collection Practics Act. Contact them, inform them of your situation and provide them with copies of everything, including how you found out that they refused the letter.

The FTC cannot take one side or the other in the debt dispute, but they can handle the fact that someone is violating the law. They are not allowed to refuse contact with you in this manner because of the fact that they attempt to initiate contact with you. By refusing that letter, they are trying to take away the rights that the law guarantees you, the consumer. They cannot legally take those rights away in any manner, so thats why I believe that they cannot refuse those letters from you.

This might even end up in the future as being sufficient grounds for you to file a lawsuit against them, because they are trying to keep you from having the rights that the law guarantees.

Re: Collection Agency refuses mail...

Anonymous — Fri, 28 Jun 2019 19:00:07 GMT

@FireMedic1 wrote:
I would recommend that you speak to the FTC regarding this matter. The FTC is the agency that enforces the Fair Debt Collection Practics Act. Contact them, inform them of your situation and provide them with copies of everything, including how you found out that they refused the letter.

The FTC cannot take one side or the other in the debt dispute, but they can handle the fact that someone is violating the law. They are not allowed to refuse contact with you in this manner because of the fact that they attempt to initiate contact with you. By refusing that letter, they are trying to take away the rights that the law guarantees you, the consumer. They cannot legally take those rights away in any manner, so thats why I believe that they cannot refuse those letters from you.

This might even end up in the future as being sufficient grounds for you to file a lawsuit against them, because they are trying to keep you from having the rights that the law guarantees.

A complaint to the FTC might help in the long run, but not in the sort term, and certainly not you personally. <Mod edit> Maybe if your complaint is complaint number 1,000 against that company the FTC might actually open a file on that company, but don't count on it. The Consumer Financial Protection Board takes its protection role a bit more seriously but not by much. <Mod edit> This is why I prefer the Courts - the law is there and has been for decades.

Mod note: https://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/User-Guidelines-General/5-Things-We-Don-t-Talk-About/td-p/336929

Re: Collection Agency refuses mail...

Anonymous — Mon, 01 Jul 2019 01:47:46 GMT

I'm not OP, but can someone give me more info on googling the hippa process. Is there something more specific to Google? Googling hippa process give me way too many kinds of results. I have no idea where to start, but I know the first 10 sites I checked didn't have much to do with this topic.

Re: Collection Agency refuses mail...

Anonymous — Mon, 01 Jul 2019 02:13:52 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I'm not OP, but can someone give me more info on googling the hippa process. Is there something more specific to Google? Googling hippa process give me way too many kinds of results. I have no idea where to start, but I know the first 10 sites I checked didn't have much to do with this topic.

PM sent.

Re: Collection Agency refuses mail...

gdale6 — Mon, 01 Jul 2019 02:30:26 GMT

Do not open it, copy both sides then send them along with a letter of demand for deletion for refusing said mail to the CRAs its being reported on.

Re: Collection Agency refuses mail...

Anonymous — Mon, 01 Jul 2019 02:37:51 GMT

@gdale6 wrote:
Do not open it, copy both sides then send them along with a letter of demand for deletion for refusing said mail to the CRAs its being reported on.

You send it to them as "Exhibit A" and attach it to a summons for violation of law (either FCRA or FDCPA or both). THEN and only then will it get the attention it deserves.

Re: Collection Agency refuses mail...

gdale6 — Mon, 01 Jul 2019 03:40:15 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@gdale6 wrote:
Do not open it, copy both sides then send them along with a letter of demand for deletion for refusing said mail to the CRAs its being reported on.
You send it to them as "Exhibit A" and attach it to a summons for violation of law (either FCRA or FDCPA or both). THEN and only then will it get the attention it deserves.

One cannot sue a CRA until they first go through the dispute process with the appropriate information being presented. If after the OP sends the proof of non acceptance to the CRA and the item(s) are not deleted then one can proceed with a suit against them for violations of the FCRA.

Re: Collection Agency refuses mail...

Anonymous — Mon, 01 Jul 2019 03:59:19 GMT

@gdale6 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@gdale6 wrote:
Do not open it, copy both sides then send them along with a letter of demand for deletion for refusing said mail to the CRAs its being reported on.
You send it to them as "Exhibit A" and attach it to a summons for violation of law (either FCRA or FDCPA or both). THEN and only then will it get the attention it deserves.
One cannot sue a CRA until they first go through the dispute process with the appropriate information being presented. If after the OP sends the proof of non acceptance to the CRA and the item(s) are not deleted then one can proceed with a suit against them for violations of the FCRA.

One can sue the provider of the information to the CRA as soon as the provider submits false or misleading information. The test is whether the provider "knew or should have known" it was false or misleading. One can sue the CRA for fauilure to investigate a dispute or investingating in a superficial way.

Re: Collection Agency refuses mail...

vntrsc — Mon, 01 Jul 2019 07:28:33 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@gdale6 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@gdale6 wrote:
Do not open it, copy both sides then send them along with a letter of demand for deletion for refusing said mail to the CRAs its being reported on.
You send it to them as "Exhibit A" and attach it to a summons for violation of law (either FCRA or FDCPA or both). THEN and only then will it get the attention it deserves.
One cannot sue a CRA until they first go through the dispute process with the appropriate information being presented. If after the OP sends the proof of non acceptance to the CRA and the item(s) are not deleted then one can proceed with a suit against them for violations of the FCRA.
One can sue the provider of the information to the CRA as soon as the provider submits false or misleading information. The test is whether the provider "knew or should have known" it was false or misleading. One can sue the CRA for fauilure to investigate a dispute or investingating in a superficial way.

A CRA cannot be sued until a dispute is first filed with that CRA.

Re: Collection Agency refuses mail...

Anonymous — Mon, 01 Jul 2019 14:54:27 GMT

@vntrsc wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@gdale6 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@gdale6 wrote:
Do not open it, copy both sides then send them along with a letter of demand for deletion for refusing said mail to the CRAs its being reported on.
You send it to them as "Exhibit A" and attach it to a summons for violation of law (either FCRA or FDCPA or both). THEN and only then will it get the attention it deserves.
One cannot sue a CRA until they first go through the dispute process with the appropriate information being presented. If after the OP sends the proof of non acceptance to the CRA and the item(s) are not deleted then one can proceed with a suit against them for violations of the FCRA.
One can sue the provider of the information to the CRA as soon as the provider submits false or misleading information. The test is whether the provider "knew or should have known" it was false or misleading. One can sue the CRA for fauilure to investigate a dispute or investingating in a superficial way.
A CRA cannot be sued until a dispute is first filed with that CRA.

That is true, but their "investigation" is usually so slipshod and inadequate that they can be sued after just about any dispute filed with them. They routinely ignore any and all documentation that they recieved false or incorrect information taht is provided by the consumer and demand absolutely no documentation from the CRA info provider. With "investigation" methods like that I could prove that the Earth is flat.

Re: Collection Agency refuses mail...

vntrsc — Tue, 02 Jul 2019 01:07:51 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@vntrsc wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@gdale6 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@gdale6 wrote:
Do not open it, copy both sides then send them along with a letter of demand for deletion for refusing said mail to the CRAs its being reported on.
You send it to them as "Exhibit A" and attach it to a summons for violation of law (either FCRA or FDCPA or both). THEN and only then will it get the attention it deserves.
One cannot sue a CRA until they first go through the dispute process with the appropriate information being presented. If after the OP sends the proof of non acceptance to the CRA and the item(s) are not deleted then one can proceed with a suit against them for violations of the FCRA.
One can sue the provider of the information to the CRA as soon as the provider submits false or misleading information. The test is whether the provider "knew or should have known" it was false or misleading. One can sue the CRA for fauilure to investigate a dispute or investingating in a superficial way.
A CRA cannot be sued until a dispute is first filed with that CRA.
That is true, but their "investigation" is usually so slipshod and inadequate that they can be sued after just about any dispute filed with them. They routinely ignore any and all documentation that they recieved false or incorrect information taht is provided by the consumer and demand absolutely no documentation from the CRA info provider. With "investigation" methods like that I could prove that the Earth is flat.

The OP never stated whether or not any information on his credit report is incorrect. I don’t know that CRAs “routinely ignore” documentation, but in this case, we don”t know that there’s anything to ignore.