topic Re: Re aged????? in Rebuilding Your Credit

Re aged?????

BungalowMo — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 17:52:29 GMT

Ok...I'm back again with my Dep of Edu/ experian mess.

After countless calls to both, I found out....

Dep of Edu has reaged my account since I paid in Full. in Feb 09.

My last payment before my PIF was May of 2000. Their records show it went into default in

1998!

I now have a glowing NEW collection as of April 09. They are not removing it.

I never thought I'd say it....DON'T PAY THEM IF IT'S OLD!!!!!!!!!!

Let sleeping DOGS lie...because lie, they will!

Sigh...this IS illegal...right?

Re: Re aged?????

Anonymous — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 18:00:20 GMT

I really do *hate* to ask this (because you're stressed out enough as is), but can you give a timeline on this?

Like when you *first* opened the account/loan?
When you defaulted?
When you went back (and why) to pay it off?
Did you pay it off all at once?
When did it reappear?
And what the notations were on your CRs as many steps of the way as possible?

I'm still looking into what I can find for your other thread on this (so far, haven't come up with diddly-squat), but a timeline might help LOADS.

This IS paid in full, right? Did you try to dispute as obsolete (that's prolly a stupid question, but thought I'd ask anyways)?

*still thinking about this*

Re: Re aged?????

Anonymous — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 18:11:50 GMT

I know very little about SL so check with the SL board.

My last payment before my PIF was May of 2000. Their records show it went into default in

1998

If this went into default in 1998 it would have to be deleted from all CRs in 2005. By paying after default & not becoming current does NOT chnge the CRTP!!!

Remember approx 7 years from CRTP it can not report.

Making payments after it was COd may restart SOL but never CRTP

Re: Re aged?????

Anonymous — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 18:21:59 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I know very little about SL so check with the SL board.

Federal student loans don't have an SoL. They are suable and collectable forever. :/

My last payment before my PIF was May of 2000. Their records show it went into default in
1998

If this went into default in 1998 it would have to be deleted from all CRs in 2005. By paying after default & not becoming current does NOT chnge the CRTP!!!

Remember approx 7 years from CRTP it can not report.

Making payments after it was COd may restart SOL but never CRTP

That's the problem. Although it can't report after 7 years, the loan (it's not like any other loan) CAN be subrogated back to the Dept of Education. At which time, the default becomes "new" and reports again. Because even though it's the same account, a claim is filed against it by the lender with the DoE.

Once a SL is defaulted, the lender notifies the Dept of Education, who subrogates the loan (popping THAT on the borrower's CRs) and then it goes to a collection agency (who, too, plops it on the CRs). Then, if the borrower rehabs the loan (9-12 monthly payments consecutively rehabs the loan), the Dept of Ed finds **another** lender for the balance of the loan and it starts all over again. And that's *another* tradeline on the CRs.

So, in the end, a borrower who defaults on a SL can have 4 entries for essentially, the same exact loan. Though usually completing rehab pulls the loan from the collection agency and the DoE (and removes those two tradelines from CRs), but the other 2 hypothetical tradelines (including the one that indicates default) still stays.

In the end, it's a twisting, complicated mess that I'll bet most borrowers wouldn't have signed up for, no matter how badly they wanted an education.

Gotta love our gubmint and how it works, dontcha?!

Re: Re aged?????

BungalowMo — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 18:30:34 GMT

Ok...first, I did put this out on the sl boards...got no replies.

Here's the long (cuz there is no short) of it. This information will show what happened when..not necessarily when I found out.

Got a sl back in 97 (perkins loan, then switched over to Department of Education)

Their records show defaulted in 98. (very likely true) I made a few payments & last payment was in May of 2000

Some time around 2003, I started accessing my reports online. All 3 CRA's always glowed for this acct. A string of gerrn OK's & always stating pays as agreed. Every month or so, it would show that I had accrued a buck or so of interest. But no bad marks.

This Feb, I decided to pay this off. When this was reported to the CRA's, Trans Union deleated this acct, Equifax first deleated & then showed paid in full/ good acct (I would check today, but that's another thread...), Experian showed Collection acct as of Feb 09.

I disputed that with EX & they say verified (although they can't really give any specifics...call, letter, email ??) Now, after the dispute, it says Collection acct as of April 09!

I have made a few calls to both agencies this morning & now it seems that the Dep of Ed has given the information that this is a paid collection as of 04/09.

This is a load! Wouldn't the DOFD be back in May 2000?? Which mean s this should be gone.

BTW...if you ever need to buy a new home phone, I highly suggest a Uniden. They can take a (likely) 75 mph hit against a 90 yo hard wood floor, lose it's battery & cover, go back together & work like a charm!!! Without my humor, I have nothing....

Re: Re aged?????

BungalowMo — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 18:37:03 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
I know very little about SL so check with the SL board.

Federal student loans don't have an SoL. They are suable and collectable forever. :/

My last payment before my PIF was May of 2000. Their records show it went into default in
1998

If this went into default in 1998 it would have to be deleted from all CRs in 2005. By paying after default & not becoming current does NOT chnge the CRTP!!!

Remember approx 7 years from CRTP it can not report.

Making payments after it was COd may restart SOL but never CRTP
That's the problem. Although it can't report after 7 years, the loan (it's not like any other loan) CAN be subrogated back to the Dept of Education. At which time, the default becomes "new" and reports again. Because even though it's the same account, a claim is filed against it by the lender with the DoE.

This account never left the Dep of Ed. I always paid THEM.

From the first time I could see my report online, it always showed up in the good accounts section.

Once a SL is defaulted, the lender notifies the Dept of Education, who subrogates the loan (popping THAT on the borrower's CRs) and then it goes to a collection agency (who, too, plops it on the CRs). Then, if the borrower rehabs the loan (9-12 monthly payments consecutively rehabs the loan), the Dept of Ed finds **another** lender for the balance of the loan and it starts all over again. And that's *another* tradeline on the CRs.

So, in the end, a borrower who defaults on a SL can have 4 entries for essentially, the same exact loan. Though usually completing rehab pulls the loan from the collection agency and the DoE (and removes those two tradelines from CRs), but the other 2 hypothetical tradelines (including the one that indicates default) still stays.

I have always had only one TL for this loan. Dep of Ed

In the end, it's a twisting, complicated mess that I'll bet most borrowers wouldn't have signed up for, no matter how badly they wanted an education.

Gotta love our gubmint and how it works, dontcha?!

Re: Re aged?????

Anonymous — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 18:42:26 GMT

@BungalowMo wrote:
Ok...first, I did put this out on the sl boards...got no replies.

Here's the long (cuz there is no short) of it. This information will show what happened when..not necessarily when I found out.

Got a sl back in 97 (perkins loan, then switched over to Department of Education)

Their records show defaulted in 98. (very likely true) I made a few payments & last payment was in May of 2000

Some time around 2003, I started accessing my reports online. All 3 CRA's always glowed for this acct. A string of gerrn OK's & always stating pays as agreed. Every month or so, it would show that I had accrued a buck or so of interest. But no bad marks.

This Feb, I decided to pay this off. When this was reported to the CRA's, Trans Union deleated this acct, Equifax first deleated & then showed paid in full/ good acct (I would check today, but that's another thread...), Experian showed Collection acct as of Feb 09.

I disputed that with EX & they say verified (although they can't really give any specifics...call, letter, email ??) Now, after the dispute, it says Collection acct as of April 09!

I have made a few calls to both agencies this morning & now it seems that the Dep of Ed has given the information that this is a paid collection as of 04/09.

This is a load! Wouldn't the DOFD be back in May 2000?? Which mean s this should be gone.

BTW...if you ever need to buy a new home phone, I highly suggest a Uniden. They can take a (likely) 75 mph hit against a 90 yo hard wood floor, lose it's battery & cover, go back together & work like a charm!!! Without my humor, I have nothing....

I know I'm nagging and nitpicking, but I *have* to ask: Did you EVER see anything to the effect of "claim filed" on your reports????

What we want to know (and this is what I'd ask the DoE) is if a claim was ever filed on this loan. IF a claim was filed, that means that this is a "new" tradeline (a collection/claim) that you paid off later. You could have rehabbed it (which would have taken this entry OFF your CRs at the end of rehabbing and left you with a nice "new" loan TL), but you didn't. And you're going to pay the price (most likely) for being good and taking care of your debts without any additional help.

(I REALLY hate that crap, BTW. Seems to me that you should be REWARDED for paying the *&^% thing off in one fell swoop, not dinged for it)

Like what I said earlier about subrogating and filing a claim? The OLD loan is dead and not reporting. But the FILED CLAIM *is* reporting. That's what it sounds like to me.

And I really, really, really , REALLY do **HATE** to say that. Lord knows that not only do I like you, Mo, but I also **HATE** SL laws (they're disgustingly unfair and crooked, IMO).

Re: Re aged?????

BungalowMo — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 18:43:37 GMT

This report from EX in January is a perfect example of what my TL always looked like:

Suze Orman's FICO® Kit Platinum

Student Loan Account

U S Dept Of Ed/Ndsl/At

Status as of [?] Dec, 2008

Date opened [?] May, 1998

Date of last activity [?] Dec, 2008

Date of last payment [?] May, 2000

Date closed [?] Not Reported

Account number [?] XXXXXXXXXXXXX3010

Loan type [?] Education Loan

Credit limit [?] Not Reported

Largest past balance [?] Not Reported

Terms [?] 120 Months

Account Type [?] Installment

Account holder [?] Individual

Scheduled payment amount [?]

Descriptions [?]None on Record

No contact information provided by Experian

Balance [?] Current Status [?] Past Due Amount [?]

$531 This is an account in good standing Not Reported

Seven year payment history [?]

30 days late 0 times

60 days late 0 times

90+ days late 0 times

Recent payment history [?]

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12

2007 2008

Worst Delinquency [?]None Reported

Re: Re aged?????

BungalowMo — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 18:50:29 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

Without my humor, I have nothing.... I had to leave this in! hehe

I know I'm nagging and nitpicking, but I *have* to ask: Did you EVER see anything to the effect of "claim filed" on your reports????

Nope.....

What we want to know (and this is what I'd ask the DoE) is if a claim was ever filed on this loan. IF a claim was filed, that means that this is a "new" tradeline (a collection/claim) that you paid off later. You could have rehabbed it never rehabbed it. (which would have taken this entry OFF your CRs at the end of rehabbing and left you with a nice "new" loan TL), but you didn't. And you're going to pay the price (most likely) for being good and taking care of your debts without any additional help.

(I REALLY hate that crap, BTW. Seems to me that you should be REWARDED for paying the *&^% thing off in one fell swoop, not dinged for it) That was my thought too! Why would 2 cra's be ok with this & ex ding me??

Like what I said earlier about subrogating and filing a claim? The OLD loan is dead and not reporting. But the FILED CLAIM *is* reporting. That's what it sounds like to me.

This loan has always reported the same. Never closed & another opened in it's place.

And I really, really, really , REALLY do **HATE** to say that. Lord knows that not only do I like you, Mo, (awww...thanks! ..I like You too!) but I also **HATE** SL laws (they're disgustingly unfair and crooked, IMO). Agreed...smarmy ba$+@rd$

Re: Re aged?????

Anonymous — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 18:53:59 GMT

First, I'm not trying to argue with you (you're not saying that I am, I know ... I just want to make sure that you understand that I'm not -- I really do like you lots, Mo), but I really think that the bigger picture is that the loan *did* default and even though it's not reporting *fully,* it IS reporting correctly.

I think somewhere along the lines (and the DoE is fricking KNOWN for this crap -- half-arse is the way they do business, IMO) the notations for the filed claim and collections got ... lost.

If you didn't make payments for 8 years (give or take), the loan *did* go into default. It would go into default after 180 days, even if it doesn't show on your CRs. It just would.

**Normally**, it would show on your CRs as one TL for the original loan, one TL for the collection account, and then one TL for the filed claim. Add on another TL if you'd have rehabbed it (of course, if you had rehabbed it, the CA and the claim would have disappeared -- such is the penalty for doing it on your own, of course).

But what I really *think* that what you're not seeing is simply what's missing. The original loan would have fallen off (that's normal -- the CRTP is over for THAT loan). But once a claim is filed, that starts a "new" CRTP, since essentially, it's a new TL (sort of like a public record -- but kept in the accounts section).

And I really think that's what you're seeing. I think they were just REALLY lazy about updating your CRs. Like you said, paying the bastiges was poking a sleeping dragon with a pointy stick. You paid off the account, and in their minds, they're helping you by reporting the account as paid -- but since they never reported it until NOW, it's killing you.

In their minds, they're reporting correctly NOW. But before, they simply weren't reporting at ALL.

Re: Re aged?????

Anonymous — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 19:01:58 GMT

(I pulled this from your other thread "What is my next step? EX vs Dep EDU")

See, this is what I'm seeing that tells me that it *was* subrogated:

"It doesn't show as unpaid & open, but it has NEVER showed as a collection either! And I NEVER got any collection notice...ever!

It says: Paid, was a collection account, insurance claim or government claim or was terminated for default

Which is a LIE!"

If you didn't make payments after '00, and paid it off in '09, you *did* default on the loan.

When a Perkins loan defaults, the campus (who's theoretically the lender) can either keep the loan or file a claim with the DoE. The DoE then acts as a collection agent. I really think that's what you're seeing on your CRs.

I really think that EQ & TU just deleted the files out of laziness (didn't bother to actually verify).

Again, I really hate saying this. But this is really the only explanation I can come up with.

Re: Re aged?????

BungalowMo — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 19:08:33 GMT

Ok...so what can I do?? The information I get from both EX & Edu is that the loan opened in 98. Went to collections (without my knowing or any red flag stating so) always reported good & now it's bad.

Can I write to the FTC saying that if this had been in default/collections back in 98 or even 2000, this should be gone from my report altogether!! Also that simply paying it off shouldn't suddenly make it a NEW collection.

Re: Re aged?????

Anonymous — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 19:23:19 GMT

I really don't know. And more, I really wish I did.

From what I *understand* (which isn't saying THAT much), the CRTP on the filed claim runs from either the date the claim was filed (which I'll BET was 180 days after your last payment in '00) **OR** the date the claim is paid (which you said was Feb '09).

I REALLY hate to say this, but I'd either PM LynnInMN directly, simply asking her what is the date for CRTP in this case? The date the claim was filed (sometime in late '00 or early '01) or when you actually PAID it.

I think that would be the big deciding factor on when it should fall off.

Or, if you haven't done so already, you could contact the Ombudsman for the DoE and ask his office to look into the matter. While Perkins loans are supposed to be the BEST SLs out there, they have the added wrinkle that you're not dealing with a servicer who can be GWed -- your either dealing with the school itself or the DoE itself. Neither of which, IMO, have the best CSRs.

Re: Re aged?????

BungalowMo — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 19:34:48 GMT

Wonderin...thanks so much for the info! I'll have to hunt down that ombudsman & pm LynninMN too.

Another, possibly last resort...I found a letter I'd gotten back in 2000 from a woman at the DoE. She said if she can be of further assistance...bla bla. I found her online & she still works for DoE in Chicago. Maybe I can write her & send along a copy of her last letter to me & explain what's up and ask what will happen to my credit or account info.

This is her...she works in collections

Diane S.

Department of Education

Regional Director

FSA-Collections

500 West Madison

Suite 1520

Chicago, IL 60661

Would you take a shot that she'd help??