topic Re: Stimulus Package????? in SmorgasBoard

Stimulus Package?????

fishbjc — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 16:25:06 GMT

What's the scoop on another package?

Re: Stimulus Package?????

Anonymous — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 16:34:37 GMT

I could sure use some more money! What's another trillion to the national debt?

Re: Stimulus Package?????

Anonymous — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 16:58:11 GMT

I know, let's react to the poor practices that lead to a Nation of Debt by.... GOING INTO DEBT!!!

YESSSSSS...... That IS the answer. Not able to focus on the long-term by foregoing fun money in the short-term? NO PROBLEM! NEITHER CAN THE GOVERNMENT!!! Here, have $1200!!

...seriously though, if my financial woes could be cured with $1200, I'd hardly call that a crisis anyway. OR, if my finances are stable enough that I feel comfortable blowing that $1200 on junk, rather than paying down debt, I'm not in crisis either! OOORRR, if I'm dumb enough to blow that $1200 on junk, rather than using it to pay down my unbearable debt, I MUST BE AMERICAN!

Re: Stimulus Package?????

Anonymous — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 19:10:38 GMT

More seriously, it's basic economics. When the economy is slow or receding, private spending decreases and therefore public spending should increase (the government should run a deficit). When the economy is growing rapidly, private spending increases and therefore public spending should decrease (the government should use extra revenue to buy back bonds it has issued to decrease the national debt and NOT lower taxes when the economy is doing just fine with the current taxes).

Unfortunately, since demand has fallen off a cliff, stimulus and bailouts are likely to happen to get the economy moving again and boost confidence in our financial markets. Lets say GM goes under. The many billions of dollars GM spends on parts and labor each year won't be spent. The companies who provide parts to GM will go under and will lay off employees. Those employees won't spend money. Demand will decrease. If these behemoths go under...forget ripples. Shockwaves will be felt across our national economy.

Re: Stimulus Package?????

Anonymous — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 19:39:02 GMT

stimulus packages don't work. we've already seen this. we'll pay off past debt or buy crap from china.

i'd rather they keep the $1200 and avoid hyper inflation caused by printing more money to pay off this bailout and further stimulus packages

besides from what i've heard the next stimulus package is going for infrastructure and food stamps. although i don't have any firm details, myself

a cheap car that gets good gas milage. that's the only bailout GM needs. let them fail and let the smarter, better run car companies take over

Re: Stimulus Package?????

MidnightVoice — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 20:05:18 GMT

Hey you lot - read the TOS. No discussions on sex!! Or do I mean politics?

Message Edited by MidnightVoice on 11-17-2008 02:05 PM

Re: Stimulus Package?????

Anonymous — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 20:28:45 GMT

The Big 3 automakers will probably end up being bailed out.

Nobody wants to be responsible for adding 2.5 million people

to the unemployment rolls.

Then again, if the Big 3 were building cars that Americans

actually wanted to buy, they wouldn't be in their current situation

in the first place.

In GM's case, I see more ads on TV about OnStar than I do about

their new models. Don't get me wrong --- OnStar is phenomenal.

But if the best thing your advertising folks choose to focus on is

your roadside assistance program, that doesn't say very much about the

cars themselves...

But as far as the Big 3 are concerned, the 800 pound gorilla in the

room is the UAW pension/health care benefits package. They won't

be able to build better cars until they figure out a way to get these costs

under control...which means folks will have to go back to the bargaining table.

Personally, I hope these guys eventually adopt the "Detroit South"

model like Toyota, BMW, Hyundai, etc. As soon as they relocated their plants

to states like Kentucky, South Carolina and Alabama, their costs went down

and car quality (and sales) went up. The same job that paid $60/hour to a Detroit

union worker is now being done by a $30/hour non-union worker. And part of that

$30/hour savings is passed on to customers in the form of rebate money that can

be used as a downpayment.

I'm not suggesting a mass exodus from Michigan to the southern US. I'm just

saying that unless the Big 3 figure out a way to reduce their costs and improve

car quality, then no amount of money will solve their problems...

Message Edited by CanDoAttitude on 11-17-2008 12:28 PM

Re: Stimulus Package?????

Anonymous — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 20:14:23 GMT

@MidnightVoice wrote:

Hey you lot - read the TOS. No discussions on sex!! Or do I mean politics?
Message Edited by MidnightVoice on 11-17-2008 02:05 PM

Err, no politics going on here. Obama who? Stimulus package what? I didn't do it.

Re: Stimulus Package?????

Anonymous — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 21:04:13 GMT

http://www.businessweek.com/autos/autobeat/archives/2008/11/gm_buys_86_days.html

It may already be too late for GM. If they are burning through $2 billion a month, and the sale of their Suzuki stake only bought 'em a few days, then a $25 billion bailout will only float 'em for another 12.5 months.

And the prohibited sexual content of this post would be in observing that the American taxpayer is scre...

Message Edited by Noah_Bodie on 11-17-2008 01:04 PM

Re: Stimulus Package?????

Anonymous — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 21:14:46 GMT

i feel terrible for the pensioners, i really do but like it's been mentioned we're just going to have to revisit this again. i say burn GM and sow the earth with salt.

GM can't survive because the business has been ran into the ground, the taxpayer shouldn't be responsible for this.

excellent, and funny, point about onstar vs. the actual car in advertising!

Re: Stimulus Package?????

marty56 — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 21:31:36 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
GM can't survive because the business has been ran into the ground, the taxpayer shouldn't be responsible for this.

Blame the union and government regulations.

Re: Stimulus Package?????

MidnightVoice — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 22:15:01 GMT

@marty56 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
GM can't survive because the business has been ran into the ground, the taxpayer shouldn't be responsible for this.

Blame the union and government regulations.

Or alternatively, blame the companies for making cars that people don't want

Re: Stimulus Package?????

Anonymous — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 00:29:31 GMT

@MidnightVoice wrote:
@marty56 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
GM can't survive because the business has been ran into the ground, the taxpayer shouldn't be responsible for this.

Blame the union and government regulations.

Or alternatively, blame the companies for making cars that people don't want

AYYYYYYY-men!!

Re: Stimulus Package?????

fishbjc — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 00:38:07 GMT

I play in a monthly bunco league. Two of the husbands work for the auto industry. I overheard one of the wives say: It's because of people like ***** (meaning ME) who purchase only foreign cars that are causing our husbands' jobs to be in jeopardy.

The fight was *ON*.

Re: Stimulus Package?????

haulingthescoreup — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 00:44:34 GMT

We've tried buying American, and we get burned every time.

And I'll toss German in here, too. We seem stuck with Japanese cars, even if 6'3" DH doesn't fold himself into them very well.

Re: Stimulus Package?????

Anonymous — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 00:49:03 GMT

Hey fish,

If you'd like to get back at your friend, ask her this question:

"By foreign cars, do you mean companies like Honda, Toyota,

BMW, Hyundai and Mercedes??"

When she answers "Yes", please inform her that all of those

"foreign cars" were built right here in America...in states like

Ohio (Honda), Kentucky/Texas (Toyota), South Carolina (BMW/Mercedes)

and Alabama (Hyundai). Then sit back and gloat as she turns

about 10 different shades of red as she (hopefully) walks away disgusted...

CanDo

"The right attitude is everything"

Re: Stimulus Package?????

haulingthescoreup — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 00:58:48 GMT

CanDoAttitude wrote:

Hey fish,

If you'd like to get back at your friend, ask her this question:

"By foreign cars, do you mean companies like Honda, Toyota,
BMW, Hyundai and Mercedes??"

When she answers "Yes", please inform her that all of those
"foreign cars" were built right here in America...in states like
Ohio (Honda), Kentucky/Texas (Toyota), South Carolina (BMW/Mercedes)
and Alabama (Hyundai). Then sit back and gloat as she turns
about 10 different shades of red as she (hopefully) walks away disgusted...

CanDo

"The right attitude is everything"

I'm not fish, but I for one have never said that the American auto industry crisis is due to crappy labor.

IMO, it's due to lack of vision in management and design. It has been a vicious competition to see who can come up with the safest, least innovative designs.

I think American workers are the best, if we have decent leadership and vision from management.

Re: Stimulus Package?????

Anonymous — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 01:10:27 GMT

I never said anything about "crappy" labor.

fish's friend was trying to put off the fact that automakers in Detroit

are losing jobs/market share because Americans are buying foreign

cars. But the "foreign" cars that most of us buy are built right here

in America by American workers....the finest in the world.

I agree. The problem is mostly with poor management..specifically,

with allowing manufacturing costs (including labor costs) to get to the point

where Detroit is no longer competitive with other automakers. The companies

selling the most cars these days do the best job controlling costs, investing

in research and development and putting as much technology and comfort

into cars at the lowest possible price. And then they back them with great

warranties.

So until the folks in Detroit start doing the same (or go back to doing the same

the way they used to), then people will continue not to buy "American" and

make other choices.

CanDo

"The right attitude is everything"

Re: Stimulus Package?????

Anonymous — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 02:52:32 GMT

@haulingthescoreup wrote:

IMO, it's due to lack of vision in management and design. It has been a vicious competition to see who can come up with the safest, least innovative designs.

If you ask me, the innovations, design-wise, they were lacking the most was gas-efficiency. Instead of having a good range of gas-efficient-but-cool-looking-cars, they went for one OR the other -- then once the gas meltdown occurred, no one was interested in the guzzling SUVs and went for the slim-pickins of efficient cars.

Sooo .... now they're stuck with oodles of gas guzzlers that they just can't move -- since I'll bet ya'll 200 FICO points that enough buyers out there are still going to be leery of buying cars that they potentially can't afford to gas up.

And I'll betcha another 200 points that if they'd have asked the "Everyday Joe" laborer what THEY thought, they'd have suggested that production focus more on the efficient cars. Since I'll bet that the average production line worker wasn't driving around in a Cadillac SUV.

Just my 2 cents.

Re: Stimulus Package?????

fishbjc — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 03:39:01 GMT

I owned a Ford Pickup truck...by 72k miles I spent tons of cash on it...everything fell apart. I finally sold it for pennies. Bought DS a Ford.....fell apart by 80k

DH bought a Buick...not too bad.

DH now drives a Honda crv....140k and nothing but an oil change, tires and a brake job.

I just can't wrap my brain around buying another Ford EVER.