topic Re: You'll Want To Read This!! Credit Card Rant in SmorgasBoard

You'll Want To Read This!! Credit Card Rant

Tommy5746 — Thu, 03 May 2012 18:01:27 GMT

I love these forums.. they are filled with excellent knowledge and support from others in similar situations such as myself. I am especially drawn to the credit card forum since I have been trying to rebuild my credit with the help of some credit cards... but, as I read some of the posts on here I have to laugh and shake my head because sometimes I am stricken with second hand embarrassment from comments that’s others post as you'll read about in this rant...

Some of my favorite comments are below:

"How dare they charge me an annual fee!" - Ok, Let's start with WOW! You know before you apply for the credit card what the annual fee is. And not only that, had you read your card holder agreement which is available for you BEFORE you apply and then given to you AFTER you apply that the annual fee can change with due notice! I'm sure people are saying "I was never given notice!" and my answer to that is yes, you were. It either comes to you via email or mail. You choosing to not read your mail or email does not mean you didn't receive a notice, it simply means you chose to disregard your mail. Credit Card companies can charge any annual fee they want! And they should be able too because THAT is one of the many variables that separates credit card companies apart. YOU as the consumer choose if this is something that you agree with or don’t agree with and if you don't agree but STILL apply for the card, then you my friend are a fool and have no leg to stand on when complaining about your annual fee. Also, it cracks me up when I see people saying things like "I'm going to close out my card if they don't waive the annual fee!". Really? So, you mean to tell me that you are going to threaten a billion dollar financial institution by closing out your 10k limit credit card because they wouldn’t waive a fee that you not only knew about BUT signed a form stating to pay the annual fee too? Laughable...

"I can't believe they charged me fees, don’t they know how much I have with them in my checking account!?" - I love this one! People with large sums of money sitting in a checking or savings account at a bank and/or credit union who they also have a credit card with. Listen, this is simple and easy.. If you have a large sum of money in your account then CLEARLY you can afford to pay the fee's.. SO PAY THEM! You have a credit card and how do credit card companies earn income aside from interest? Fees! Everything from cash advance fee's to dormant account fee's.. It is this exact problem that roots down deep to one of the biggest problems today.. People with money who want certain "things" for free... The more money you have doesn't mean the less you'll have to pay.. If ANYTHING it should be the complete opposite.. If you have the money, then you should be paying the applicable fees without complaining about it. Granted, sometimes a credit card company will up the amount of a fee to what may seem steep, BUT you have the choice to close out your card or keep the card... Throwing around numbers only makes you look pompous and greedy.

"I've been a card holder for years now!" - Being a card member to a specific credit card company for long periods of time does NOT entitle you to be exempt from interest charges and miscellaneous fees. This is a credit card we're talking about.. not your best friend. You are in a BUSINESS relationship with the company, nothing more! It's simply business...Stop looking for handouts from your credit card like it "owes" you something in return for using it for the last decade. Simply put, the credit card doesn't need you, you "need" the credit card... I put need in quotations because nobody should ever actually need a credit card, but you get the point. Put this "loyalty" nonsense to bed and stop acting like your dating your credit card.

"They refused to lower my interest rate!" - This is one of the best lines I keep hearing... They won't lower your interest rate.. Ha. You have a credit card that is based almost entirely around one thing.. Interest. You know this. It makes me laugh every time I read this because the second a persons interest rate goes up, even the slightest bit, they are on the phone with customer service bluffing about closing out the card because they refuse to pay anymore than they have too. Let me get this straight.. you're flipping out because your VARIABLE rate credit card interest rate went up!? Notice how I put lots and lots and lots of emphasis on the word VARIABLE! Variable means that rate is going to go up at some point and you know this.. Also, it means the rate can go down which does happen. If your rate went down would you be calling up customer support screaming at the representative for unknowingly dropping your rate? Of course not! This also goes back to the cardholder agreement that you either signed or acknowledged when you initially applied for the card. You knew that the card had a variable rate which means it goes up and it goes down.. Some credit cards have a ceiling that is high and some have a floor that is low.. You have to decide if the rate is worth it or not.. So please, remember this next time your rate goes up because it will go up!

Sorry everybody, I just had to get this off of my chest! *big smile*

Re: You'll Want To Read This!! Credit Card Rant

espnjunkie — Thu, 03 May 2012 18:17:10 GMT

While I hear what you are saying you make tons of assumptions here. First of all, never assume that creditors only fee you for legitimate reasons and if you have the money don't complain and just pay up. There have been countless examples of threads where customers were wrongly charged fees, double charged for the annual fee, incorrect billing statements, etc. Banks can and do often make mistakes.

In terms of loyalty I believe it makes a bit more difference than you present it. Yes it is a business relationship, but like any business relationship you can gain more favorable treatment and terms over time. That's not to say this is to be automatic or expected, but it is definitely not out of the question to ask to have something done for you when you have been a cardholder and customer for 10+ years for example.

Annual fees...well I agree that you know what you are getting yourself into. It is not stupid to ever ask if they will waive the annual fee for you though. Can never hurt to ask.

Interest rate...meh I feel that with rare exception credit cards should never be used to purchase things people currently could not afford to pay for. Keeping balances on your cards all the time digs a person deeper and deeper into debt.

Re: You'll Want To Read This!! Credit Card Rant

Tommy5746 — Thu, 03 May 2012 18:25:49 GMT

@espnjunkie wrote:
While I hear what you are saying you make tons of assumptions here. First of all, never assume that creditors only fee you for legitimate reasons and if you have the money don't complain and just pay up. There have been countless examples of threads where customers were wrongly charged fees, double charged for the annual fee, incorrect billing statements, etc. Banks can and do often make mistakes.

In terms of loyalty I believe it makes a bit more difference than you present it. Yes it is a business relationship, but like any business relationship you can gain more favorable treatment and terms over time. That's not to say this is to be automatic or expected, but it is definitely not out of the question to ask to have something done for you when you have been a cardholder and customer for 10+ years for example.

Annual fees...well I agree that you know what you are getting yourself into. It is not stupid to ever ask if they will waive the annual fee for you though. Can never hurt to ask.

Interest rate...meh I feel that with rare exception credit cards should never be used to purchase things people currently could not afford to pay for. Keeping balances on your cards all the time digs a person deeper and deeper into debt.

All of what I have written is not based upon assumptions... It is based upon NON errored complaints. Meaning, everything I talked about was based upon the fact that it was not an error.. Who wouldn’t say something if they were charged incorrectly? Its people that KNOW about the procedures and the charges and then decided to complain about them after the fact... Error and ignorance are two different things..

Re: You'll Want To Read This!! Credit Card Rant

Anonymous — Thu, 03 May 2012 18:48:31 GMT

Quotes of Mod Cut who think someone else is already responsible (e.g the CCC) always make me laugh.

You can give an opinion without calling people names - MarineVietVet, myFICO moderator

Re: You'll Want To Read This!! Credit Card Rant

Anonymous — Thu, 03 May 2012 18:45:05 GMT

I have a similar gripe with people who complain about airlines. I know airlines make mistakes worth complaining about like lost luggage, etc but what really grinds my gears is people who think they are special. Terms and conditions clearly state that if you want to change your flight, it will be a 150 dollar change fee. Airlines have it for a reason but people complain about "horrible customer service" when the reservation agent won't waive that fee because it is just changing some data in a computer, how can it cost 150 dollars?

Or people upset about having to pay money to standby for an earlier flight. If you can take earlier flights for free, then everybody would be buying the late night or early morning cheap flight, then trying to take a prime time flight.

My view on annual fees is I don't have any problem with them. It is not like it is a surprise charge it is quite easy to know what it will be before you app. Sometimes you can get the fee waived but I dont count on it. If the rewards and perks I get from the card justify the annual fee I have no problem with it.

Re: You'll Want To Read This!! Credit Card Rant

espnjunkie — Thu, 03 May 2012 18:58:25 GMT

I was moreso just looking to play a bit of devil's advocate. I do agree with most of what was posted though. People know the terms and conditions when they apply for credit. Ignorance is no excuse.

Re: You'll Want To Read This!! Credit Card Rant

Anonymous — Thu, 03 May 2012 19:00:17 GMT

On the annual fee rant, isn't it possible a person had the card with no annual fee and sundenly they get a fee?

Re: You'll Want To Read This!! Credit Card Rant

espnjunkie — Thu, 03 May 2012 19:11:36 GMT

Arilines are in a tough position. They do want to make customers happy, but there are so many different things that can go wrong to piss poeple off.

Back to the topic of credit...people make mistakes and I believe rebuilding can become a great learning process. I do feel that all too often the posts on this board have been pretty superficial as of late with headlines like "OMG I just got approved for *insert some prime/entry level prime card from Amex/Citi/Chase/Discover*" and this is viewed as a huge success. The successful applicant is showered with praise and gongrats, everything is peachy. The dangers of credit fall to the wayside. Getting approved for card XYZ is just the beginning. The real vistory is in maintaining that account and establishing a positive tradeline.

It is so much easier to ruin your credit than to build it up. We live in a society that loves instant gratification. Credit can be a valuable tool when used wisely and cautiously, but once used carelessly can have servere impact. This thread is a breath of fresh air in that it bluntly lays out a dose of reality for people that could use it. We need more like it

Re: You'll Want To Read This!! Credit Card Rant

Datx — Thu, 03 May 2012 19:26:16 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
On the annual fee rant, isn't it possible a person had the card with no annual fee and sundenly they get a fee?

Yup, sure is possible. I saw a thread earlier about someone being charged a $59 AF when the card had no AF at all for like 6 years? Yea, thats no way to treat a customer. You think someone is going to say...YAY! After no AF for 6 long years, my creditor is going to start charging a $59 AF. High fives all around, hollerz! Of course you are going to be upset. I'm certain the OP would be upset if in the same situation.

And yes, folks close their CCs all the time when they dont agree to a AF. You get to a certain point where your overall credit health has improved, and you have other CCs without AF. So to call a creditor to let them know you want to close your card because of the AF is not unusual. Im sure people do it all the time. I dont see it as it being a laughable matter like the OP.

Re: You'll Want To Read This!! Credit Card Rant

Anonymous — Thu, 03 May 2012 19:26:46 GMT

@Datx wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
On the annual fee rant, isn't it possible a person had the card with no annual fee and sundenly they get a fee?
Yup, sure is possible. I saw a thread earlier about someone being charged a $59 AF when the card had no AF at all for like 6 years? Yea, thats no way to treat a customer. You think someone is going to say...YAY! After no AF for 6 long years, my creditor is going to start charging a $59 AF. High fives all around, hollerz! Of course you are going to be upset. I'm certain the OP would be upset if in the same situation.

And yes, folks close their CCs all the time when they dont agree to a AF. You get to a certain point where your overall credit health has improved, and you have other CCs without AF. So to call a creditor to let them know you want to close your card because of the AF is not unusual. Im sure people do it all the time. I dont see it as it being a laughable matter like the OP.

+100000

Re: You'll Want To Read This!! Credit Card Rant

Anonymous — Thu, 03 May 2012 19:27:48 GMT

Yep it is easy to get carried away with credit. Easy to run things up, even harder to pay them off if you get behind due to increasing interest, late fees, repo fees, etc that pile up.

Getting approved for a great card feels great of course, especially if you have been rebuilding for awhile, but you haven't truly rebuilt and entered prime territory until you establish that account and have it grow.

I am determined to never get crushed by debt. I pay my credit cards in full every month, although I am carrying a balance on my discover right now to ease some car repair bills over a few months at 0% apr. I am making twice the minimum payment on my student loans to pay it off as soon as I can, then at the end of the year whatever money is left over I throw it all at my loans for good measure. Should have it all paid off in 2-3 years.

I always cringe when I read a horror story on here of people who can't even make a minimum payment on a student loan because it exceeds their income, or people who have had cars repoed, upside down, etc and can't get out from under it and I am determined to never have that happen to me. Especially with auto loans. I vow to never buy a brand new car or take out an auto loan my entire life. I will always go for a high mileage used, but well maintained car, throw in some car repairs here and there as necessary to keep it running, and drive it until the wheels fall off. My current car is 13 years old, has 60,000 miles on it, but I own it. Was a hand me down from my parents. Put in some work the last few years like new shocks, tires, brakes, and it runs like a charm. It is just a tool to get me around town so I could never justify saddling myself with a monthly car payment when the one I have works just fine. Drive it for a few decades then go for another cheap fix er upper. I don't make a lot of money as a recent college grad with an entry level job, but not having a monthly car payment certainly makes me feel rich.

Re: You'll Want To Read This!! Credit Card Rant

espnjunkie — Thu, 03 May 2012 19:38:56 GMT

+1 Wise reasoning.

I agree that it is always best to pay for a car right away. If you cannot pay for it right now, then he/she probably shouldn't be buying that expensive of a car. You are right to start paying off those student loans asap too. You clearly have a plan of action moving forward. I tend to not sympathize with people who complain about being saddled with $200,000.00+ of student debt from a private university without having any clue of how to pay it back. I understand the desire to go to your 'dream' school but that is a crippling amount of debt to take on. There was an article about a guy who was in that situation having graduated from NYU with a theater major and couldn't find a job after.

All universities (and high schools for that matter) are doing their students a disservice by not properly educating students about personal finance, credit, loans, mortgages, debt, reporting, etc. I feel like a personal finance class should be mandatory to graduate.

Re: You'll Want To Read This!! Credit Card Rant

Anonymous — Thu, 03 May 2012 20:21:15 GMT

The OP's argument can essentially be boiled down to the fact that CC companies are businesses and businesses act in their own interest. That is true. What is also true is that people who post on this board also act in their own interest. It's not in my interest to pay an AF or to pay a high interest rate on a CC. That takes money out of my pocket. I expect CCs to put money into my pocket instead. As far as I'm concerned, the CC companies are already making out like bandits on the interchange fees they are getting from my usage of their product. I don't owe them anything more. If they want to continue to enjoy my interchange fees, I expect a certain level of service and I expect certain perks. If I don't get what I want, I will take my business elsewhere. Capitalism is a two way street.

Re: You'll Want To Read This!! Credit Card Rant

espnjunkie — Thu, 03 May 2012 20:25:55 GMT

+1 Also agree.

If you are not pleased with one card company then you can always take your business elsewhere. "Oh it doesn't matter if we lose one customer because we are so large it doesn't matter" some people might argue, but each customer who leaves is costing the company money.

Re: You'll Want To Read This!! Credit Card Rant

Anonymous — Thu, 03 May 2012 20:56:16 GMT

I agree with most of what the OP said, good post. You have a business relationship with your credit card provider, not a personal relationship. People do seem to get too emotional about things like annual fees and interest rates. People threaten to close their accounts like they are threatening to break up. If the company won't waive the annual fee, whether your account had it all along or not, just make a decision as to keep or close, there's no cause to be upset. The company has not wronged you. If your card company refuses to lower or actually raises your interest rate, just evaluate your needs, there's no cause for anger; no injustice has been done to you.

Re: You'll Want To Read This!! Credit Card Rant

Anonymous — Thu, 03 May 2012 20:56:18 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
The OP's argument can essentially be boiled down to the fact that CC companies are businesses and businesses act in their own interest. That is true. What is also true is that people who post on this board also act in their own interest. It's not in my interest to pay an AF or to pay a high interest rate on a CC. That takes money out of my pocket. I expect CCs to put money into my pocket instead. As far as I'm concerned, the CC companies are already making out like bandits on the interchange fees they are getting from my usage of their product. I don't owe them anything more. If they want to continue to enjoy my interchange fees, I expect a certain level of service and I expect certain perks. If I don't get what I want, I will take my business elsewhere. Capitalism is a two way street.

Well said!

Re: You'll Want To Read This!! Credit Card Rant

daveg38 — Thu, 03 May 2012 20:57:13 GMT

"How dare they charge me an annual fee!"     - Ok, Let's start with WOW! You know before you apply for the credit card what the annual fee is. And not only that, had you read your card holder agreement which is available for you BEFORE you apply and then given to you AFTER you apply that the annual fee can change with due notice! I'm sure people are saying "I was never given notice!" and my answer to that is yes, you were. It either comes to you via email or mail. You choosing to not read your mail or email does not mean you didn't receive a notice, it simply means you chose to disregard your mail. Credit Card companies can charge any annual fee they want! And they should be able too because THAT is one of the many variables that separates credit card companies apart. YOU as the consumer choose if this is something that you agree with or don’t agree with and if you don't agree but STILL apply for the card, then you my friend are a fool and have no leg to stand on when complaining about your annual fee. Also, it cracks me up when I see people saying things like "I'm going to close out my card if they don't waive the annual fee!". Really? So, you mean to tell me that you are going to threaten a billion dollar financial institution by closing out your 10k limit credit card because they wouldn’t waive a fee that you not only knew about BUT signed a form stating to pay the annual fee too? Laughable...

It may seem like people are ranting about the annual fee - but, as you may also have read, many people get slammed with them later on down the road...which is NOT in the CC agreements...

"I can't believe they charged me fees, don’t they know how much I have with them in my checking account!?"    - I love this one! People with large sums of money sitting in a checking or savings account at a bank and/or credit union who they also have a credit card with. Listen, this is simple and easy.. If you have a large sum of money in your account then CLEARLY you can afford to pay the fee's.. SO PAY THEM! You have a credit card and how do credit card companies earn income aside from interest? Fees! Everything from cash advance fee's to dormant account fee's.. It is this exact problem that roots down deep to one of the biggest problems today.. People with money who want certain "things" for free... The more money you have doesn't mean the less you'll have to pay.. If ANYTHING it should be the complete opposite.. If you have the money, then you should be paying the applicable fees without complaining about it. Granted, sometimes a credit card company will up the amount of a fee to what may seem steep, BUT you have the choice to close out your card or keep the card... Throwing around numbers only makes you look pompous and greedy.

The people that usually point out the excessive (or surprise) fees are ones that are both rich and poor. Again, you really need to pay closer attention to what you read as there is nothing really plausible in this statement.

"I've been a card holder for years now!"     - Being a card member to a specific credit card company for long periods of time does NOT entitle you to be exempt from interest charges and miscellaneous fees. This is a credit card we're talking about.. not your best friend. You are in a BUSINESS relationship with the company, nothing more! It's simply business...Stop looking for handouts from your credit card like it "owes" you something in return for using it for the last decade. Simply put, the credit card doesn't need you, you "need" the credit card... I put need in quotations because nobody should ever actually need a credit card, but you get the point. Put this "loyalty" nonsense to bed and stop acting like your dating your credit card.

Entitlement, no. Earning lower amounts for good credit behavior and long-time customer loyalty, yes.

"They refused to lower my interest rate!"     - This is one of the best lines I keep hearing... They won't lower your interest rate.. Ha. You have a credit card that is based almost entirely around one thing.. Interest. You know this. It makes me laugh every time I read this because the second a persons interest rate goes up, even the slightest bit, they are on the phone with customer service bluffing about closing out the card because they refuse to pay anymore than they have too. Let me get this straight.. you're flipping out because your VARIABLE rate credit card interest rate went up!? Notice how I put lots and lots and lots of emphasis on the word VARIABLE! Variable means that rate is going to go up at some point and you know this.. Also, it means the rate can go down which does happen. If your rate went down would you be calling up customer support screaming at the representative for unknowingly dropping your rate? Of course not! This also goes back to the cardholder agreement that you either signed or acknowledged when you initially applied for the card. You knew that the card had a variable rate which means it goes up and it goes down.. Some credit cards have a ceiling that is high and some have a floor that is low.. You have to decide if the rate is worth it or not.. So please, remember this next time your rate goes up because it will go up!

Many people that are told they will receive a lower interest rate PER customer service reps are the ones who, justifiably, are the ones who you'll see writing these things. Most of the people who come to this forum have some common sense and won't errantly post things that lack validity to some extent..

Sorry everybody, I just had to get this off of my chest! *big smile* <---while on lunch break @ Capital One??

Re: You'll Want To Read This!! Credit Card Rant

android01 — Thu, 03 May 2012 21:03:03 GMT

@espnjunkie wrote:
+1 Also agree.

If you are not pleased with one card company then you can always take your business elsewhere. "Oh it doesn't matter if we lose one customer because we are so large it doesn't matter" some people might argue, but each customer who leaves is costing the company money.

Sometimes it's necessary for a business to fire some of its customers, particularly the ones that you spend a lot of time on with very little to show for it. This frees up time to focus more attention on those customers where you do make money. So, no, each customer who leaves doesn't necessarily cost the company money, in fact, it could easily be the opposite. Many are of the opinion that ALL customers, are GOOD customers, which isn't true.

Re: You'll Want To Read This!! Credit Card Rant

espnjunkie — Thu, 03 May 2012 21:22:12 GMT

True, but taking that attitude that "Oh well it doesn't matter if we lose this customer" is not that right approach to customer service and does nothing to help you bbuild up the value of your brand. Effort should be given to do what is best considering the circumstances to retain customers. Each customer is a battleground that if you fail to serve them they can go jump to your competition in a heartbeat. Not all customers are equal, but neither is credit card company customer service

Re: You'll Want To Read This!! Credit Card Rant

android01 — Thu, 03 May 2012 21:53:30 GMT

Each customer is a battleground, I agree, but the most successful businesses know how to choose their battles carefully and train their representatives properly on how to fight on this battleground, or to surrender, which in EITHER case, could be the right thing for the business.

topic Re: You'll Want To Read This!! *Credit Card Rant* in SmorgasBoard

You'll Want To Read This!! *Credit Card Rant*

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You'll Want To Read This!! Credit Card Rant

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