topic Re: AA changes coming in March... in SmorgasBoard

AA changes and Discussion of Why I Rack Up Bonuses

Open123 — Wed, 18 Nov 2015 21:30:46 GMT

As many of you may already know, yestearday Amerian Airlines announced some changes to their program. Of course, there no real positives, only negatives, none of which is truly surprising. For those with SPG, the same will happen; so, burn them before conversion and harvest Marriott points.

Those with an abundance of AA miles may want to make some redemptions before March.

Many wonder why I like to rack up bonuses; some have attributed this to an addiction, some strange irrationality, or outright greed. Well, it isn't any of those reasons. In any inflationary environment, one should either (1) spend before the value erodes, or (2) earn a return that outpaces inflation. Whatever one chooses, the least desirable is to "do nothing," which most opt for, ironically.

So, as with any fiat currency (which travel rewards really are deep down), either spend them before they lose value or accumulate at a rate higher than inflation, which is one of the main appeals for harvesting/churning/hack (whatever nomenclature one wishes to use) sign-up bonuses.

(Mod Edit--this thread and responses have been split from the original topic, as this is a separate topic that does not pertain to the Credit Card Forum. --SE)

Re: AA changes coming in March...

jsucool76 — Wed, 18 Nov 2015 15:22:00 GMT

Time to spend my miles.

Re: AA changes coming in March...

kdm31091 — Wed, 18 Nov 2015 15:22:18 GMT

Whatever reason you justify it to yourself with is the only one that matters. If you like it, keep doing it. Not everyone has the spending habits to justify getting many signup bonuses, and/or we dont all travel often enough that having a ton of potentially devalued miles makes sense.

Collecting the bonuses makes sense if its your thing and you travel often enough that you can use the miles before they inevitably lose value. To me, the cards make sense for a frequent traveler. At least once a month if not more. But judging by the number of people who go for the workarounds to redeem their miles/travel credits without actually traveling (ie gift cards), id say more people have these cards than probably really benefit from them in many cases. The number of people with many expensive travel cards who don't seem to travel very often is puzzling.
However, we all know the risks and pitfalls of collecting bonuses and have to make the choices we feel are best. At the end of the day, its your credit and your choices, and no one else has to agree with them.

Re: AA changes coming in March...

CH-7-Mission-Accomplished — Wed, 18 Nov 2015 15:27:43 GMT

In terms of collecting travel rewards, I'm starting to like my Venture card more and more. That 2% is 2% and can't be taken away from you by a program change.

Re: AA changes coming in March...

kdm31091 — Wed, 18 Nov 2015 15:32:19 GMT

Technically capital one could nerf the venture earn rate (remember, the similar arrival card was somewhat nerfed) but its far less likely than the frequent flyer programs changing, as they often do.

Re: AA changes coming in March...

Open123 — Wed, 18 Nov 2015 15:40:43 GMT

@kdm31091 wrote:
Whatever reason you justify it to yourself with is the only one that matters. If you like it, keep doing it. Not everyone has the spending habits to justify getting many signup bonuses, and/or we dont all travel often enough that having a ton of potentially devalued miles makes sense.

Collecting the bonuses makes sense if its your thing and you travel often enough that you can use the miles before they inevitably lose value. To me, the cards make sense for a frequent traveler. At least once a month if not more. But judging by the number of people who go for the workarounds to redeem their miles/travel credits without actually traveling (ie gift cards), id say more people have these cards than probably really benefit from them in many cases. The number of people with many expensive travel cards who don't seem to travel very often is puzzling.
However, we all know the risks and pitfalls of collecting bonuses and have to make the choices we feel are best. At the end of the day, its your credit and your choices, and no one else has to agree with them.

A couple of things.

1. At this point in my life, I don't need any internal justification for anything I do. I will do what I do, regardless of what anyone in the world thinks.

2. Sure, everything boils down to a person's respective risk tolerance vs. reward. Whether a person agrees or objects is entirely irrelevant.

Maximizing a return, whether travel rewards or cash, is purely an objectively quatifiable endeavor, nothing more and nothing less. Whatever has a higher % return has the higher return--anything else is just...er...irrelevant meanderings.

Re: AA changes coming in March...

Imperfectfuture — Wed, 18 Nov 2015 15:44:43 GMT

It's not that bad, but I will be switching to Alaska Airlines points in 2017. Was going to book before March anyway, otherwise, I like barclays promos.

Re: AA changes coming in March...

yfan — Wed, 18 Nov 2015 16:49:35 GMT

Thanks for the update on the rewards charts.

@Open123 wrote:

Many wonder why I like to rack up bonuses; some have attributed this to an addiction, some strange irrationality, or outright greed. Well, it isn't any of those reasons. In any inflationary environment, one should either (1) spend before the value erodes, or (2) earn a return that outpaces inflation. Whatever one chooses, the least desirable is to "do nothing," which most opt for, ironically.

Well, also ironically, bonus chasing could not happen without those who do nothing. People who bonus chase and churn essentially count on a pretty good majority of their fellow customers not doing so. Because if most people were churners and bonus chasers, bonuses would go the way of dinosaurs faster than you could say 'nerf.

Re: AA changes coming in March...

Open123 — Wed, 18 Nov 2015 17:00:31 GMT

@yfan wrote:
Thanks for the update on the rewards charts.

@Open123 wrote:

Many wonder why I like to rack up bonuses; some have attributed this to an addiction, some strange irrationality, or outright greed. Well, it isn't any of those reasons. In any inflationary environment, one should either (1) spend before the value erodes, or (2) earn a return that outpaces inflation. Whatever one chooses, the least desirable is to "do nothing," which most opt for, ironically.
Well, also ironically, bonus chasing could not happen without those who do nothing. People who bonus chase and churn essentially count on a pretty good majority of their fellow customers not doing so. Because if most people were churners and bonus chasers, bonuses would go the way of dinosaurs faster than you could say 'nerf.

Good point.

This is true. Without imperfect information and irrationality, opportunities to realize a "higher" return would never exist.

Re: AA changes coming in March...

FinStar — Wed, 18 Nov 2015 19:15:25 GMT

@Open123 wrote:
@kdm31091 wrote:
Whatever reason you justify it to yourself with is the only one that matters. If you like it, keep doing it. Not everyone has the spending habits to justify getting many signup bonuses, and/or we dont all travel often enough that having a ton of potentially devalued miles makes sense.

Collecting the bonuses makes sense if its your thing and you travel often enough that you can use the miles before they inevitably lose value. To me, the cards make sense for a frequent traveler. At least once a month if not more. But judging by the number of people who go for the workarounds to redeem their miles/travel credits without actually traveling (ie gift cards), id say more people have these cards than probably really benefit from them in many cases. The number of people with many expensive travel cards who don't seem to travel very often is puzzling.
However, we all know the risks and pitfalls of collecting bonuses and have to make the choices we feel are best. At the end of the day, its your credit and your choices, and no one else has to agree with them.
A couple of things.

1. At this point in my life, I don't need any internal justification for anything I do. I will do what I do, regardless of what anyone in the world thinks.
2. Sure, everything boils down to a person's respective risk tolerance vs. reward. Whether a person agrees or objects is entirely irrelevant.

Maximizing a return, whether travel rewards or cash, is purely an objectively quatifiable endeavor, nothing more and nothing less. Whatever has a higher % return has the higher return--anything else is just...er...irrelevant meanderings.

Agree.

At the end of the day, kdm doesn't pay my bills, knows anything about my lifestyle let alone influence any decision regarding my financial goals (or those of others I'm sure). So, I would say, who cares?

At any rate, thanks for posting this Open. I received an email on this yesterday along with a Citi AA PS WMC Business Card pre-qualification. Instead, I opted for the personal AA PS WMC since the 50K sign up bonus was available for both and was approved. I already have a Citi AA AmEx from years ago and will likely combine CLs. I do travel to Europe frequently and considered the new 2016 program highlights given the sector redemption changes. Again, my decision and I'm glad you provided some good perspective on this.

Re: AA changes coming in March...

kdm31091 — Wed, 18 Nov 2015 19:25:21 GMT

@FinStar wrote:
@Open123 wrote:
@kdm31091 wrote:
Whatever reason you justify it to yourself with is the only one that matters. If you like it, keep doing it. Not everyone has the spending habits to justify getting many signup bonuses, and/or we dont all travel often enough that having a ton of potentially devalued miles makes sense.

Collecting the bonuses makes sense if its your thing and you travel often enough that you can use the miles before they inevitably lose value. To me, the cards make sense for a frequent traveler. At least once a month if not more. But judging by the number of people who go for the workarounds to redeem their miles/travel credits without actually traveling (ie gift cards), id say more people have these cards than probably really benefit from them in many cases. The number of people with many expensive travel cards who don't seem to travel very often is puzzling.
However, we all know the risks and pitfalls of collecting bonuses and have to make the choices we feel are best. At the end of the day, its your credit and your choices, and no one else has to agree with them.
A couple of things.

1. At this point in my life, I don't need any internal justification for anything I do. I will do what I do, regardless of what anyone in the world thinks.
2. Sure, everything boils down to a person's respective risk tolerance vs. reward. Whether a person agrees or objects is entirely irrelevant.

Maximizing a return, whether travel rewards or cash, is purely an objectively quatifiable endeavor, nothing more and nothing less. Whatever has a higher % return has the higher return--anything else is just...er...irrelevant meanderings.
Agree.

At the end of the day, kdm doesn't pay my bills, knows anything about my lifestyle let alone influence any decision regarding my financial goals (or those of others I'm sure). So, I would say, who cares?

At any rate, thanks for posting this Open. I received an email on this yesterday along with a Citi AA PS WMC Business Card pre-qualification. Instead, I opted for the personal AA PS WMC since the 50K sign up bonus was available for both and was approved. I already have a Citi AA AmEx from years ago and will likely combine CLs. I do travel to Europe frequently and considered the new 2016 program highlights given the sector redemption changes. Again, my decision and I'm glad you provided some good perspective on this.

If you read my comment instead of rushing to bash me as usual, I actually was talking about justifying actions to one's self and not to others. So your comment about "kdm doesn't pay my bills" has no bearing. I was simply saying that as long as one's decisions work for them, that's all that matters. Actually, the same thing you are saying, but somehow you found a way to try and talk smack about me again.

Re: AA changes coming in March...

FinStar — Wed, 18 Nov 2015 19:38:06 GMT

@kdm31091 wrote:
@FinStar wrote:
@Open123 wrote:
@kdm31091 wrote:
Whatever reason you justify it to yourself with is the only one that matters. If you like it, keep doing it. Not everyone has the spending habits to justify getting many signup bonuses, and/or we dont all travel often enough that having a ton of potentially devalued miles makes sense.

Collecting the bonuses makes sense if its your thing and you travel often enough that you can use the miles before they inevitably lose value. To me, the cards make sense for a frequent traveler. At least once a month if not more. But judging by the number of people who go for the workarounds to redeem their miles/travel credits without actually traveling (ie gift cards), id say more people have these cards than probably really benefit from them in many cases. The number of people with many expensive travel cards who don't seem to travel very often is puzzling.
However, we all know the risks and pitfalls of collecting bonuses and have to make the choices we feel are best. At the end of the day, its your credit and your choices, and no one else has to agree with them.
A couple of things.

1. At this point in my life, I don't need any internal justification for anything I do. I will do what I do, regardless of what anyone in the world thinks.
2. Sure, everything boils down to a person's respective risk tolerance vs. reward. Whether a person agrees or objects is entirely irrelevant.

Maximizing a return, whether travel rewards or cash, is purely an objectively quatifiable endeavor, nothing more and nothing less. Whatever has a higher % return has the higher return--anything else is just...er...irrelevant meanderings.
Agree.

At the end of the day, kdm doesn't pay my bills, knows anything about my lifestyle let alone influence any decision regarding my financial goals (or those of others I'm sure). So, I would say, who cares?

At any rate, thanks for posting this Open. I received an email on this yesterday along with a Citi AA PS WMC Business Card pre-qualification. Instead, I opted for the personal AA PS WMC since the 50K sign up bonus was available for both and was approved. I already have a Citi AA AmEx from years ago and will likely combine CLs. I do travel to Europe frequently and considered the new 2016 program highlights given the sector redemption changes. Again, my decision and I'm glad you provided some good perspective on this.
If you read my comment instead of rushing to bash me as usual, I actually was talking about justifying actions to one's self and not to others. So your comment about "kdm doesn't pay my bills" has no bearing. I was simply saying that as long as one's decisions work for them, that's all that matters. Actually, the same thing you are saying, but somehow you found a way to try and talk smack about me again.

I read your comments. However, your common perception and "generalization" for individuals on what's "right" for you versus others is simply overblown. You don't have to understand. Who really gives a flying fig if people obtain the cards for whatever reason? I can not sit here and tell someone that their $30K Barneys New York card is something that would work for them or not or someone who decides to go for a CSP for either the cool factor or whether they travel or not. That's none of my business. Individuals will know in the end whether it was wise decision or not. And, hopefully learn from it or seek/research for better advice. It's just human nature.

Re: AA changes coming in March...

kdm31091 — Wed, 18 Nov 2015 19:46:57 GMT

@FinStar wrote:
@kdm31091 wrote:
@FinStar wrote:
@Open123 wrote:
@kdm31091 wrote:
Whatever reason you justify it to yourself with is the only one that matters. If you like it, keep doing it. Not everyone has the spending habits to justify getting many signup bonuses, and/or we dont all travel often enough that having a ton of potentially devalued miles makes sense.

Collecting the bonuses makes sense if its your thing and you travel often enough that you can use the miles before they inevitably lose value. To me, the cards make sense for a frequent traveler. At least once a month if not more. But judging by the number of people who go for the workarounds to redeem their miles/travel credits without actually traveling (ie gift cards), id say more people have these cards than probably really benefit from them in many cases. The number of people with many expensive travel cards who don't seem to travel very often is puzzling.
However, we all know the risks and pitfalls of collecting bonuses and have to make the choices we feel are best. At the end of the day, its your credit and your choices, and no one else has to agree with them.
A couple of things.

1. At this point in my life, I don't need any internal justification for anything I do. I will do what I do, regardless of what anyone in the world thinks.
2. Sure, everything boils down to a person's respective risk tolerance vs. reward. Whether a person agrees or objects is entirely irrelevant.

Maximizing a return, whether travel rewards or cash, is purely an objectively quatifiable endeavor, nothing more and nothing less. Whatever has a higher % return has the higher return--anything else is just...er...irrelevant meanderings.
Agree.

At the end of the day, kdm doesn't pay my bills, knows anything about my lifestyle let alone influence any decision regarding my financial goals (or those of others I'm sure). So, I would say, who cares?

At any rate, thanks for posting this Open. I received an email on this yesterday along with a Citi AA PS WMC Business Card pre-qualification. Instead, I opted for the personal AA PS WMC since the 50K sign up bonus was available for both and was approved. I already have a Citi AA AmEx from years ago and will likely combine CLs. I do travel to Europe frequently and considered the new 2016 program highlights given the sector redemption changes. Again, my decision and I'm glad you provided some good perspective on this.
If you read my comment instead of rushing to bash me as usual, I actually was talking about justifying actions to one's self and not to others. So your comment about "kdm doesn't pay my bills" has no bearing. I was simply saying that as long as one's decisions work for them, that's all that matters. Actually, the same thing you are saying, but somehow you found a way to try and talk smack about me again.
I read your comments. However, your common perception and "generalization" for individuals on what's "right" for you versus others is simply overblown. You don't have to understand. Who really gives a flying fig if people obtain the cards for whatever reason? I can not sit here and tell someone that their $30K Barneys New York card is something that would work for them or not or someone who decides to go for a CSP for either the cool factor or whether they travel or not. That's none of my business. Individuals will know in the end whether it was wise decision or not. And, hopefully learn from it or seek/research for better advice. It's just human nature.

People can do and should do what they feel is best, of course. This is a forum, where we state our opinions. My opinion is that if one is going to get a premier travel card and then try to "work around" the travel requirements for the credits by using gift cards, I don't personally understand why they would bother. However, you are 100% correct that I do not have to understand - it's their business.

But this is a discussion forum, so when people talk about their decisions and what they are doing, they are going to get feedback, positive and negative, which is also "human nature" and the entire purpose of a forum existing. So when one makes decisions and chooses to write about them, people will respond. Some will say "great job!" and others will say "why did you do it that way?". It's how it goes.

Re: AA changes coming in March...

yfan — Wed, 18 Nov 2015 20:21:24 GMT

@FinStar wrote:
I read your comments. However, your common perception and "generalization" for individuals on what's "right" for you versus others is simply overblown. You don't have to understand. Who really gives a flying fig if people obtain the cards for whatever reason? I can not sit here and tell someone that their $30K Barneys New York card is something that would work for them or not or someone who decides to go for a CSP for either the cool factor or whether they travel or not. That's none of my business. Individuals will know in the end whether it was wise decision or not. And, hopefully learn from it or seek/research for better advice. It's just human nature.

I have to say I don't know what your point is here. That it's not okay to tell people that they should get cards based on their needs and spending habits rather than the "cool" factor? Because if we take it to this extreme, then there is no reason for a forum to exist to discuss credit cards. There are images available for every card out there, and people can just get whatever they "want" rather than what would be actually useful to them.

No one can keep anyone else from applying for a card for any reason whatsoever or no reason at all, but that doesn't mean one should not be able to comment on what is and isn't a smart decision making process in their opinion.

Re: AA changes coming in March...

Anonymous — Wed, 18 Nov 2015 20:44:27 GMT

@yfan wrote:
@FinStar wrote:
I read your comments. However, your common perception and "generalization" for individuals on what's "right" for you versus others is simply overblown. You don't have to understand. Who really gives a flying fig if people obtain the cards for whatever reason? I can not sit here and tell someone that their $30K Barneys New York card is something that would work for them or not or someone who decides to go for a CSP for either the cool factor or whether they travel or not. That's none of my business. Individuals will know in the end whether it was wise decision or not. And, hopefully learn from it or seek/research for better advice. It's just human nature.
I have to say I don't know what your point is here. That it's not okay to tell people that they should get cards based on their needs and spending habits rather than the "cool" factor? Because if we take it to this extreme, then there is no reason for a forum to exist to discuss credit cards. There are images available for every card out there, and people can just get whatever they "want" rather than what would be actually useful to them.

No one can keep anyone else from applying for a card for any reason whatsoever or no reason at all, but that doesn't mean one should not be able to comment on what is and isn't a smart decision making process in their opinion.

This does nothing to keep the thread on topic. Points have been made. Now it's time to leave it alone.

Re: AA changes coming in March...

SunriseEarth — Wed, 18 Nov 2015 21:36:21 GMT

This topic of why bonuses are sought after by OP along with responses to that issue, have been moved to the SmorgasBoard and remain in their original form. I will caution that the responses do not necessarily meet the standards of FSR that we encourage here on the myFICO Forums. I leave this here to show how posting comments that are non-FSR and off-topic can derail a discussion. If you have comments on a side issue, please start a new topic. If you cannot disagree without posting non-FSR commentary, please do not make your disagreement public.

SunriseEarth

Moderator