topic Re: Nay Vote For Taxpayer Bailout in SmorgasBoard

Nay Vote For Taxpayer Bailout

fused — Mon, 29 Sep 2008 18:00:38 GMT

The DJIA is down 492 points, what happens next?

Re: Nay Vote For Taxpayer Bailout

Anonymous — Mon, 29 Sep 2008 18:19:28 GMT

Now, 511.66 points (2:18 EST).

Oh, what fun.

Re: Nay Vote For Taxpayer Bailout

MidnightVoice — Mon, 29 Sep 2008 18:22:54 GMT

fused wrote:

what happens next?

Major recession?

Re: Nay Vote For Taxpayer Bailout

cadavis0609 — Mon, 29 Sep 2008 19:00:45 GMT

then major depression.

Re: Nay Vote For Taxpayer Bailout

LouMinotti — Mon, 29 Sep 2008 19:44:42 GMT

@fused wrote:
The DJIA is down 492 points, what happens next?

Pain.

Re: Nay Vote For Taxpayer Bailout

Anonymous — Mon, 29 Sep 2008 19:48:37 GMT

I still believe the bailout would have done more harm than good. The government is not capable of regulating a free market more efficiently than the free market itself.

Re: Nay Vote For Taxpayer Bailout

Anonymous — Mon, 29 Sep 2008 20:08:57 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I still believe the bailout would have done more harm than good. The government is not capable of regulating a free market more efficiently than the free market itself.

Yeah, I'm no economics expert, but I'd have to agree. By the time they passed the bill to "fix" the situation, there'd be so much stupid crap rided on that it'd be either pointless or do damage elsewhere in our system. :/

And that's assuming that the whole bill held water to begin with.

Anyone have any ideas on what WILL happen??

Re: Nay Vote For Taxpayer Bailout

fused — Mon, 29 Sep 2008 20:20:21 GMT

I am NOT an expert either, but what we are seeing here is far worse than the S&L crisis of the 80's and 90's. If one of the big four, BoA, JP Morgan Chase, HSBC or CITI, fails, then all bets are off.

Re: Nay Vote For Taxpayer Bailout

Anonymous — Mon, 29 Sep 2008 20:34:23 GMT

@fused wrote:
I am NOT an expert either, but what we are seeing here is far worse than the S&L crisis of the 80's and 90's. If one of the big four, BoA, JP Morgan Chase, HSBC or CITI, fails, then all bets are off.

So what do you think it will take to "fix" all this? Do you think the market will "right itself" or does the government really and truly have to step in?

Personally, I kinda felt that the big ugly companies that screwed over so many people should have just been allowed to ... fail. I don't know how that would affect the "little guy" investors and customers, though. Like I said, I ain't an expert. :/

I know you're no "expert" in this, but I think you've got FAR more intelligence than these guys do. So what do YOU think?

Re: Nay Vote For Taxpayer Bailout

Scamp — Mon, 29 Sep 2008 20:37:02 GMT

Wonderin wrote:
Now, 511.66 points (2:18 EST).

Oh, what fun.

Down 777.68 (1:30 pm AZ time - not sure which zone we're in step with right now)

*sigh*

I guess I should be glad that I have parents who grew up during the Great Depression and taught me lots of frugal habits that I can just pick up and dust off and start using again.

Re: Nay Vote For Taxpayer Bailout

fused — Mon, 29 Sep 2008 20:44:55 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

@fused wrote:

I am NOT an expert either, but what we are seeing here is far worse than the S&L crisis of the 80's and 90's. If one of the big four, BoA, JP Morgan Chase, HSBC or CITI, fails, then all bets are off.

So what do you think it will take to "fix" all this? Do you think the market will "right itself" or does the government really and truly have to step in?

Personally, I kinda felt that the big ugly companies that screwed over so many people should have just been allowed to ... fail. I don't know how that would affect the "little guy" investors and customers, though. Like I said, I ain't an expert. :/

I know you're no "expert" in this, but I think you've got FAR more intelligence than these guys do. So what do YOU think?

I have no idea! I have concerns either way. My concern with the bailout is that the banks (investment especially), CCCs and lenders will expect future taxpayer bailouts, so they will continue gambling with deregulated derivatives. Without the bailout, I worry about our economy falling into a very deep and long lasting recession with housing prices dropping over 60% within a couple of years and unemployment sky high.

Re: Nay Vote For Taxpayer Bailout

Anonymous — Mon, 29 Sep 2008 20:46:15 GMT

@scapegrace13 wrote:

@Anonymous wrote:
Now, 511.66 points (2:18 EST).

Oh, what fun.
Down 777.68 (1:30 pm AZ time - not sure which zone we're in step with right now)
*sigh*
I guess I should be glad that I have parents who grew up during the Great Depression and taught me lots of frugal habits that I can just pick up and dust off and start using again.

So WTF??? Where's it gonna end???!!!!

Do ya'll think it's tanking because the bill was tossed out??? How friggin' low CAN we go???

(According to my browser, it's saying it goes by EST ... coulda sworn though, that the markets closed per COB PST?!)

Re: Nay Vote For Taxpayer Bailout

Anonymous — Mon, 29 Sep 2008 20:49:35 GMT

@fused wrote:
I have no idea! I have concerns either way. My concern with the bailout is that the banks (investment especially), CCCs and lenders will expect future taxpayer bailouts, so they will continue gambling with deregulated derivatives. Without the bailout, I worry about our economy falling into a very deep and long lasting recession with housing prices dropping over 60% within a couple of years and unemployment sky high.

Damnit. I was thinking the same thing: damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Re: Nay Vote For Taxpayer Bailout

fused — Mon, 29 Sep 2008 20:55:32 GMT

Sadly, if we go down, so might the rest of the world. Just look at the markets around the world, and just today, two more British banks failed. There are also a lot of rumors going around that the next ginormous bank in Europe to fail might be Fortis.

Re: Nay Vote For Taxpayer Bailout

Anonymous — Mon, 29 Sep 2008 20:58:37 GMT

Here's a dumbo: how bad WAS the S&L escapade in the 80s? I was still in high school back then, and my parents were the "don't talk about finances in front of the kids" type people. So, it was never really "real" to me. :/

Re: Nay Vote For Taxpayer Bailout

Anonymous — Mon, 29 Sep 2008 20:59:34 GMT

@fused wrote:
Sadly, if we go down, so might the rest of the world. Just look at the markets around the world, and just today, two more British banks failed. There are also a lot of rumors going around that the next ginormous bank in Europe to fail might be Fortis.

o_O

I thought Fortis was that super ritzy bank that only let you have credit with them if you had over $1M to play with? Am I wrong???

Re: Nay Vote For Taxpayer Bailout

fused — Mon, 29 Sep 2008 21:03:18 GMT

I believe the S&L crisis cost about 150-160 billion, with a taxpayer bailout of more than 120 billion. This is what started our huge budget deficit. So, obviously what is happening now is far worse than the S&L crisis.

Re: Nay Vote For Taxpayer Bailout

fused — Mon, 29 Sep 2008 21:10:15 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

@fused wrote:

Sadly, if we go down, so might the rest of the world. Just look at the markets around the world, and just today, two more British banks failed. There are also a lot of rumors going around that the next ginormous bank in Europe to fail might be Fortis.

o_O

I thought Fortis was that super ritzy bank that only let you have credit with them if you had over $1M to play with? Am I wrong???

I don't know much about Fortis, but I do know they have about 1,031 Billlion in assests.

Re: Nay Vote For Taxpayer Bailout

MidnightVoice — Mon, 29 Sep 2008 21:16:06 GMT

Fortis - The European banking and insurance giant was partly nationalised by the Netherlands, Belgium and Luxembourg.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7642156.stm

.....

Fortis is one of the largest European financial institutions to be bailed out by governments as result of the current turmoil in the credit markets.

It was seen as too big a European bank to be allowed to go under. Its assets are greater than the size of Belgium's annual domestic economic output.

Belgian Prime Minister Yves Leterme said the bail-out showed Fortis would not be allowed to fail, after its share price plunged in recent days.

Mr Leterme said: "We have taken up our responsibility, we did not abandon the savers."

Insolvency fears saw the company's shares fall to their lowest level in more than a decade before the deal was announced.

Re: Nay Vote For Taxpayer Bailout

llecs — Mon, 29 Sep 2008 21:58:39 GMT

Clear out your bank accounts! Cash in your investments! Max out your CCs! Hide the cash under your mattress and tell me where you live!!!