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Chase beat PenFed

Loquat
Moderator Emeritus

Re: Chase beat PenFed


@Crowhelm wrote:

@Loquat wrote:

@ridgebackpilot wrote:

@dunn2500 wrote:

GM beat pen fed and navy for me last month.....they would rather have the interest i think, heard some dealers arent even allowing outside financing right now, wasnt case for me but ill take the lowest

 

GM was 2.49% and others were 3.19%.....funny thing is i got letters for refinance shortly there after, but havent called to check.....

 

2022  3/4 ton pickup for under MSRP, no ADMs and had a check to buy........i gave dealer one shot to beat them and they did


Couple of issues here: First, I don't believe any auto manufacturer or dealer can prevent you from financing the truck anywhere you wish. It's not up to them to "allow" outside financing or not. You bring them a check, they give you the truck...

 

Second, no one should be surprised that GM gave you a rate that beat the other lenders. Captive lenders almost always can do that, because they offer loans that are subsidized by the manufacturer. That's why lots of folks here have received zero (0) percent APR loans from Ford Motor Credit and the other captive lenders. No outside bank or credit union is ever likely to match that!

 

So, you did the right thing by letting GM Financial bid for your business. On a new vehicle, I always ask what the captive lender can give me. It's almost always the best rate around!


Actually they can, and as a Finance Manager in my previous career, I have done so...many times.  A dealer can refuse to sell you a car for any reason they want as long as it doesn't violate any discrimination laws.  I know it isn't something most want to hear but it's just the truth.  A dealer can refuse to sell you a vehicle if you choose not to finance said vehicle with them.  

 

This isn't something new and it will never go away.  Dealers have many roundabout ways of making money.  Sometimes it's on the price of the vehicle, sometimes it's on backend products, and a good amount of it comes from financing...even if a customer qualifies for 0%.  

 

We all know that in the not so distant past, manufacturers loved to offer rebates to consumers purchasing a vehicle.  Well...these same manufacturers and captive lenders also offer "factory/lender to dealer" incentives.  The criteria changes as often as  consumer rebates and sometimes dealers will give up profit in one area if it means hitting a number and getting a "spiff" in another.  

 

Sometimes that spiff/incentive comes from captive lenders. That means that I'm going to shove "house" financing on most folks until the dealership hits the mark...even if that means taking a loss on a few deals.  I can't tell you how many vacations that GMAC (at the time) paid for me as well as lined my pockets for hitting targeted goals. 

 

So yea, they can refuse to take your outside financing any time they want and there's nothing you can do about it besides shop elsewhere.  It may not feel right from the consumers perspective but it's total legal. 


Well if any dealer would ever do this to me, not only would they never see any business from me ever again but also a ton of other people I know would never deal with them again. So if a lot of people are like me that sounds like a bad business model. Unless what they offer is better for me as well, then why not? Another way around it (if they have your dream vehicle)is to take their financing and just immediately re-fianace.


Again, I know it may not seem consumer friendly but it is what it is.  Dealers have been doing it for years and it'll continue any time it serves to benefit them.  Consumers can vote with their dollars by spending them elsewhere but dealerships aren't closing in droves so this doesn't bother as many people are you may believe.

Message 11 of 27
roughdraff
Valued Member

Re: Chase beat PenFed

They can refuse to sell to anyone but only within legal constraints. If they refuse to sell a vehicle thats available for sale to a consumer and /or a financial institution because it solely is in the interest of the dealership, That my friend is Unfair Business Practices, that is illegal Mr. former finance manager.

Message 12 of 27
Revelate
Moderator Emeritus

Re: Chase beat PenFed

Not sure on that's being illegal, if I bring a check for the sticker price of the car and they refuse to sell it to me then yes, here's your Federal lawsuit (in my case age discrimination), let's play.

 

If I have negotiated to something other than sticker price, that changes the story.  In theory a FM could give a certain price as a function of doing a loan with a dealer lender, and if they didn't go with that lender then the price doesn't necessarily have to be held.  I am not a lawyer but I doubt anyone would take that case, this is just a business transaction that didn't work out.

 

FWIW I would ALWAYS let the dealer pull credit with how the FICO algorithms work, I've seen even 2% loans be beaten before back when that was the going rate from CUs so I'm not surprised... doesn't have to be captive, captive lender is generally new cars / manufacturer as I understand it, but there's a dealer financing arm of a bunch of financial institutions and I know that is a competitive space and the FM has lots of leeway in who gets the loan on the lender side.

 

I'm assuming this was Chase Auto which is differerent than Chase Bank, I don't know the exact name for them unlike Wells Fargo Dealer Services which is strictly dealer lender... my guess is they will show up as a slightly different name on the paperwork and also on the tradeline on the credit report.  Either way, congrats on the better rate!




        
Message 13 of 27
Loquat
Moderator Emeritus

Re: Chase beat PenFed


@roughdraff wrote:

They can refuse to sell to anyone but only within legal constraints. If they refuse to sell a vehicle thats available for sale to a consumer and /or a financial institution because it solely is in the interest of the dealership, That my friend is Unfair Business Practices, that is illegal Mr. former finance manager.


@roughdraff You can disagree with it as much as you like but it doesn't make it wrong or illegal. Dealerships can and will employ such practices anytime it benefits them.  Our dealership was selectively audited by the attorney general a few times in my 10+ years there and while there may have been a hand slap for one thing or another, this certainly wasn't a reason...and there have been folks such as yourself who have tried to make this very argument and found it to be nothing more than a waste of their time.  In the very last sentence of your post you drove home my point "...That my friend is Unfair Business Practices..." with a focus on "unfair".  It may be "Unfair" but it isn't "illegal". 

 

Like I mentioned before, you can show your distaste for how they go about business by spending your dollars elsewhere but that's the only option you have in this scenario.  As long as a dealership doesn't violate any discrimination laws they can go about business in this situation, any way they choose. 

Message 14 of 27
Crowhelm
Established Contributor

Re: Chase beat PenFed


@Loquat wrote:

@roughdraff wrote:

They can refuse to sell to anyone but only within legal constraints. If they refuse to sell a vehicle thats available for sale to a consumer and /or a financial institution because it solely is in the interest of the dealership, That my friend is Unfair Business Practices, that is illegal Mr. former finance manager.


@roughdraff You can disagree with it as much as you like but it doesn't make it wrong or illegal. Dealerships can and will employ such practices anytime it benefits them.  Our dealership was selectively audited by the attorney general a few times in my 10+ years there and while there may have been a hand slap for one thing or another, this certainly wasn't a reason...and there have been folks such as yourself who have tried to make this very argument and found it to be nothing more than a waste of their time.  In the very last sentence of your post you drove home my point "...That my friend is Unfair Business Practices..." with a focus on "unfair".  It may be "Unfair" but it isn't "illegal". 

 

Like I mentioned before, you can show your distaste for how they go about business by spending your dollars elsewhere but that's the only option you have in this scenario.  As long as a dealership doesn't violate any discrimination laws they can go about business in this situation, any way they choose. 


And then those same dealerships wonder why people have such a low opinion of car dealerships. I think you just demonstrated really well why we don't trust them. But by now I know how to deal with it. Our last two purchases were smoking deals. It required a 200 mile plus trip to another dealer for one, but I got what I wanted nevertheless. Funny how the local dealer called me afterward and said we would have matched the price. Really? I told you what I wanted at what price and you told me that is impossible on a new vehicle/model. Guess I found the impossible, lol.







Message 15 of 27
Bourne
Established Member

Re: Chase beat PenFed


@southernblueeyes wrote:

I was dead set against letting the Acura dealership run my credit but in the end I'm happy I did.  Only 2 new cars on the lot when I went Saturday so I put a deposit on one.  Waiting for settlement offer on my totaled Honda before purchasing. But they would only hold it until today. Applied with PenFed Saturday and they finally approved today $50,000 72 months @ 4.09%  BK 7 was discharged March 2020. Thought for sure noone would beat that rate. Chase did. 72 months @ 3.8% less than 2 years after bankruptcy discharged. 



Did Chase ask for proof of income?

Message 16 of 27
Loquat
Moderator Emeritus

Re: Chase beat PenFed


@Crowhelm wrote:

@Loquat wrote:

@roughdraff wrote:

They can refuse to sell to anyone but only within legal constraints. If they refuse to sell a vehicle thats available for sale to a consumer and /or a financial institution because it solely is in the interest of the dealership, That my friend is Unfair Business Practices, that is illegal Mr. former finance manager.


@roughdraff You can disagree with it as much as you like but it doesn't make it wrong or illegal. Dealerships can and will employ such practices anytime it benefits them.  Our dealership was selectively audited by the attorney general a few times in my 10+ years there and while there may have been a hand slap for one thing or another, this certainly wasn't a reason...and there have been folks such as yourself who have tried to make this very argument and found it to be nothing more than a waste of their time.  In the very last sentence of your post you drove home my point "...That my friend is Unfair Business Practices..." with a focus on "unfair".  It may be "Unfair" but it isn't "illegal". 

 

Like I mentioned before, you can show your distaste for how they go about business by spending your dollars elsewhere but that's the only option you have in this scenario.  As long as a dealership doesn't violate any discrimination laws they can go about business in this situation, any way they choose. 


And then those same dealerships wonder why people have such a low opinion of car dealerships. I think you just demonstrated really well why we don't trust them. But by now I know how to deal with it. Our last two purchases were smoking deals. It required a 200 mile plus trip to another dealer for one, but I got what I wanted nevertheless. Funny how the local dealer called me afterward and said we would have matched the price. Really? I told you what I wanted at what price and you told me that is impossible on a new vehicle/model. Guess I found the impossible, lol.


@Crowhelm Truth be told, most dealerships don't care about consumer opinions of them.  Most of them know how the general public views them and their line of work.  Being hated comes with the job and the business.  Truth of the matter is, for every one customer that refuses to buy from them, there will be a line of others who will.  I'm not saying that's how it should be but it is what it is.  Some of the really bad dealerships will faded away but a good amount of them won't. 

 

The feeling you described isn't just something that exist in the auto industry.  You have people who swear they'll never shop at Walmart again because Target treats them better.  The same for folks who will never shop at Sam's Club but will happily spend money with Costco.  Some folks will never buy another Chevy because it's junk to them and Honda is better.   And as you and I both know, Walmart, Sam's Club, and Chevy are still in business today despite those who have sworn them off. 

 

The auto industry isn't any different.  When I was in the business I really didn't care what most thought of me because I have a pretty good idea already...but at the end of the day, I can't pay my mortgage with likes so those who passed through my office served one purpose...to help me pay my bills by purchasing products I had to sell at the highest interest rate I could get them to swallow.

 

I have since left the dealership life behind but I do miss it sometimes.

Message 17 of 27
southernblueeyes
New Contributor

Re: Chase beat PenFed


@Bourne wrote:

@southernblueeyes wrote:

I was dead set against letting the Acura dealership run my credit but in the end I'm happy I did.  Only 2 new cars on the lot when I went Saturday so I put a deposit on one.  Waiting for settlement offer on my totaled Honda before purchasing. But they would only hold it until today. Applied with PenFed Saturday and they finally approved today $50,000 72 months @ 4.09%  BK 7 was discharged March 2020. Thought for sure noone would beat that rate. Chase did. 72 months @ 3.8% less than 2 years after bankruptcy discharged. 



Did Chase ask for proof of income?


No. Chase did not ask for proof of income. But I did put down $10,000 cash and financed the remaining $50,000 so that could have been a factor. Not sure what they would have said if my down payment was lower. 

NFCU Cash Rewards $10,000
PenFed Power Cash Rewards $10,000
Apple Card $4,000
Ollo Card $2,700
Message 18 of 27
dunn2500
Frequent Contributor

Re: Chase beat PenFed


@Loquat wrote:

@Crowhelm wrote:

@Loquat wrote:

@roughdraff wrote:

They can refuse to sell to anyone but only within legal constraints. If they refuse to sell a vehicle thats available for sale to a consumer and /or a financial institution because it solely is in the interest of the dealership, That my friend is Unfair Business Practices, that is illegal Mr. former finance manager.


@roughdraff You can disagree with it as much as you like but it doesn't make it wrong or illegal. Dealerships can and will employ such practices anytime it benefits them.  Our dealership was selectively audited by the attorney general a few times in my 10+ years there and while there may have been a hand slap for one thing or another, this certainly wasn't a reason...and there have been folks such as yourself who have tried to make this very argument and found it to be nothing more than a waste of their time.  In the very last sentence of your post you drove home my point "...That my friend is Unfair Business Practices..." with a focus on "unfair".  It may be "Unfair" but it isn't "illegal". 

 

Like I mentioned before, you can show your distaste for how they go about business by spending your dollars elsewhere but that's the only option you have in this scenario.  As long as a dealership doesn't violate any discrimination laws they can go about business in this situation, any way they choose. 


And then those same dealerships wonder why people have such a low opinion of car dealerships. I think you just demonstrated really well why we don't trust them. But by now I know how to deal with it. Our last two purchases were smoking deals. It required a 200 mile plus trip to another dealer for one, but I got what I wanted nevertheless. Funny how the local dealer called me afterward and said we would have matched the price. Really? I told you what I wanted at what price and you told me that is impossible on a new vehicle/model. Guess I found the impossible, lol.


@Crowhelm Truth be told, most dealerships don't care about consumer opinions of them.  Most of them know how the general public views them and their line of work.  Being hated comes with the job and the business.  Truth of the matter is, for every one customer that refuses to buy from them, there will be a line of others who will.  I'm not saying that's how it should be but it is what it is.  Some of the really bad dealerships will faded away but a good amount of them won't. 

 

The feeling you described isn't just something that exist in the auto industry.  You have people who swear they'll never shop at Walmart again because Target treats them better.  The same for folks who will never shop at Sam's Club but will happily spend money with Costco.  Some folks will never buy another Chevy because it's junk to them and Honda is better.   And as you and I both know, Walmart, Sam's Club, and Chevy are still in business today despite those who have sworn them off. 

 

The auto industry isn't any different.  When I was in the business I really didn't care what most thought of me because I have a pretty good idea already...but at the end of the day, I can't pay my mortgage with likes so those who passed through my office served one purpose...to help me pay my bills by purchasing products I had to sell at the highest interest rate I could get them to swallow.

 

I have since left the dealership life behind but I do miss it sometimes.


very true.......plenty of dealerships near me that get horrid reviews for bad business practices, people infuriated on reviews dating back years claiming how they got ripped off and going to call BBB and start legal actions and blah blah blah but they are still one of biggest dealerships for that brand ..........i would imagine in this case they wouldnt outright say its because your paying with cash.....be more along the lines of "oh that car already sold and we forgot" or some other excuse..........**bleep** straight they will refuse and do it all the time for various reasons........cant think of another business that pisses more people off than the car business, maybe the illegal drug business trade but idk, lol

 

exactly correct for every 1 that wont use them there is a line out the door that will.........they use basic human traits and sheer volume of customers to make it work.........

Message 19 of 27
SouthernCredit
Frequent Contributor

Re: Chase beat PenFed

I'll always let a dealer run my credit. I have BofA Preferred Rewards and can always get a rate discount that's usually better than anything outside of captive. Because most dealers will concede more if you finance through them, regardless of what they are peddling I will negotiate a lower price and extras by financing through them, then immediately refi. Worked for me even before I had Preferred Rewards. 



Message 20 of 27
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