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@Anonymous wrote:
@twono wrote:Another question.....does it matter if a bk attorney is also a trustee at the same time? How is that looked at by debtors/clients?
Seems like a conflict of interests of sorts? If a trustee is not 'for you' so to speak, how can they be impartial to their clients? Of course i realize that your attorney can't be the trustee in your bk case.
I'm not sure that your lawyer can also act as your trustee on the same case. Is that unique to your state?
That's what i was saying and i quote myself: "of course i realize that your attorney can't be the trustee in your bk case."
My concern is, say on Monday, my attorney is a trustee, is on the board of trustees, and is fighting on behalf of the creditors, etc....On tuesday, she is representing me the debtor. Can a person who represents both sides of the case, truly be able to have an OFF/ON switch depending on the day? Heck, an attorney representing the creditors as a trustee at a 9:00 am hearing, and then at 10:00 am, is on the other side of the courtroom representing the debtor?
My concerns would be that an attorney that is also a trustee at other times of the day/week, would favor the creditors moreso.
Is my paranoia/anxiety taking over? I just want a fair process. I'm expecting the worst case scenario as far as the 13 being unbearable. I always hope for the best, but expect the worst.
@twono wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@twono wrote:Another question.....does it matter if a bk attorney is also a trustee at the same time? How is that looked at by debtors/clients?
Seems like a conflict of interests of sorts? If a trustee is not 'for you' so to speak, how can they be impartial to their clients? Of course i realize that your attorney can't be the trustee in your bk case.
I'm not sure that your lawyer can also act as your trustee on the same case. Is that unique to your state?
That's what i was saying and i quote myself: "of course i realize that your attorney can't be the trustee in your bk case."
My concern is, say on Monday, my attorney is a trustee, is on the board of trustees, and is fighting on behalf of the creditors, etc....On tuesday, she is representing me the debtor. Can a person who represents both sides of the case, truly be able to have an OFF/ON switch depending on the day? Heck, an attorney representing the creditors as a trustee at a 9:00 am hearing, and then at 10:00 am, is on the other side of the courtroom representing the debtor?
My concerns would be that an attorney that is also a trustee at other times of the day/week, would favor the creditors moreso.
Is my paranoia/anxiety taking over? I just want a fair process. I'm expecting the worst case scenario as far as the 13 being unbearable. I always hope for the best, but expect the worst.
to be clear a lawyer can be both a trustee & represent a debtor BUT not in the same case - that's a conflict of interest and the court would not allow it
One could argue having a lawyer represent you that is a trustee in other cases might be beneficial as they know the process/system extremely well and will have that experience with which to guide you through it
FYI - a lawyer represents both sides in different cases isn't unusual at all
@Lurker22 wrote:
@twono wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@twono wrote:Another question.....does it matter if a bk attorney is also a trustee at the same time? How is that looked at by debtors/clients?
Seems like a conflict of interests of sorts? If a trustee is not 'for you' so to speak, how can they be impartial to their clients? Of course i realize that your attorney can't be the trustee in your bk case.
I'm not sure that your lawyer can also act as your trustee on the same case. Is that unique to your state?
That's what i was saying and i quote myself: "of course i realize that your attorney can't be the trustee in your bk case."
My concern is, say on Monday, my attorney is a trustee, is on the board of trustees, and is fighting on behalf of the creditors, etc....On tuesday, she is representing me the debtor. Can a person who represents both sides of the case, truly be able to have an OFF/ON switch depending on the day? Heck, an attorney representing the creditors as a trustee at a 9:00 am hearing, and then at 10:00 am, is on the other side of the courtroom representing the debtor?
My concerns would be that an attorney that is also a trustee at other times of the day/week, would favor the creditors moreso.
Is my paranoia/anxiety taking over? I just want a fair process. I'm expecting the worst case scenario as far as the 13 being unbearable. I always hope for the best, but expect the worst.
to be clear a lawyer can be both a trustee & represent a debtor BUT not in the same case - that's a conflict of interest and the court would not allow it
One could argue having a lawyer represent you that is a trustee in other cases might be beneficial as they know the process/system extremely well and will have that experience with which to guide you through it
FYI - a lawyer represents both sides in different cases isn't unusual at all
Thank you, and like i said, i know that an attorney cannot be your attorney, and the trustee in the same (your) case. Hopefully that's common sense to most of us. My concern was the attorney/trustee being impartial and can they flip the Off/attorney or ON/trustee light switch when it comes your case as the debtor.
Thanks again!
Regarding your bank statements, you will likely need to provide more than just one month during the means test review. I think we provided 6 months (as a minimum) for all accounts that showed income and expenditures including IRAs, etc. But, due to the time difference between when your lawyer files your initial paperwork and your 341 meeting, you still need to have your current bank statement(s), pay stubs or other means of income statements available (in case of questions or objections).
How you select your lawyer comes down to who you trust or feel will take care of your case in the best manner. There are arguments for and against a lawyer who works as a trustee in one case and for the debtor in another. If that makes you feel uncomfortable, you should have other choices available in your area. I would suggest looking for reviews on your final picks for lawyers. In the end, you need to choose the person that represents YOU and your case based on their experience (or lack of) with the type of BK you need plus takes the time to answer your questions.
However, at some point, you need to just choose as based on your previous comments, you can't let your anxiety paralyzed you in this important decision and slow down your progress. Your anxiety WILL calm down the closer you are to receiving resolution.
@Anonymous wrote:How you select your lawyer comes down to who you trust or feel will take care of your case in the best manner. There are arguments for and against a lawyer who works as a trustee in one case and for the debtor in another. If that makes you feel uncomfortable, you should have other choices available in your area. I would suggest looking for reviews on your final picks for lawyers. In the end, you need to choose the person that represents YOU and your case based on their experience (or lack of) with the type of BK you need plus takes the time to answer your questions.
However, at some point, you need to just choose as based on your previous comments, you can't let your anxiety paralyzed you in this important decision and slow down your progress. Your anxiety WILL calm down the closer you are to receiving resolution.
Looks like im going to be able to do a 7....if that fails, then i would be put into a 36 month payment plan in a 13....according to the attorney that i'm favoring at this point.
Well, 5 attorneys, 6 consultations....and a 6th attorney appointment on Friday. I still can't believe the varying opinions on some things.
Some of the attorneys tell me to pay some of the recent cash advances back.....The money is still sitting in the bank waiting to pay bills/creditors, and to keep all my accts in good standing.
Some say stop paying everything now.
Some say i'll be stuck with a tax bill in 7....the attorney im seeing friday says maybe not. His law firm is arguably the best in my large-ish, professional sports teams of a city. He is also a trustee.
Some say unemployment benefits won't be used in my 7....He said he 'lists' it, but doesn't include it in his median calculations and was never asked to in over 30 yrs. But, the attorney i'm seeing friday says that unempl benefits are included but he can sometimes negotiate that only 1/2 of the unempl benefit amount is used in median income calculations.
The attorney that i'm favoring now says, 90 days is pretty much mandatory to wait to file after cash advances. The premier attorney that i'm seeing friday says he's not concerned with cash advances whatsoever. Cash advances have no relevance to him and/or in his experiences, which are many.
Anyway, i feel like going for a 7 is the way to go. And if the 7 fails, the idea of going into a 36 mo/ch.13 payment plan, sounds better than a 0 mo plan.
Thoughts?
I felt much better today after my 6th consultation...Blood pressure was cookin' earlier today...155/100.
Well, is a $4000 attorney fee for a Ch. 7 filing, an indication that i'm getting a top level attorney? Im guessing his Ch. 13 fee would be $8000.
This attorney focused on Ch. 7 almost exclusively. I asked him about the 'what if' and the 'what about this' concerns that i and some of the other attorneys i met with had, and he would flat out say, 'not an issue'.
I would ask questions about the Ch. 13....and he would just tell me to solely look at the 7 and prepare accordingly.
With the huge amount of debt i have, it's obvious to him apparently, that he wants to make it all go away.
I did feel the most 'assured' with this attorney. He told me to make an appointment early June, and bring in the latest bills, 6 mos paystubs, 401k statement, titles/memorandums to vehicles, 2 yrs tax returns, and $4000. That's it...for now i guess.
All the other attorneys gave me packets of paperwork to fill out....assets lists, 50 item questionnaire about gifts, transfer of property, storage units, social media, do friends know of my financial issues, blood type, etc etc.
This attorney told me to sell what i wanted to pay the tax bill, or for living expenses, etc....Others said don't sell/transfer ownership of anything?
So many differing opinions/advice on this. 6 attorneys, 2 are trustees. And they all specialize in BK only or maybe 80% BK, 20% estate planning types.
The more attorneys i see, the more difficult it is to pick one.
RIght now, it's between an attorney that says go straight for the ch. 13/36 mo plan. Even though i'm below the median income test for ch. 7, he feels i will not pass the means test and will be put into a ch 13/36 plan.
The other frontrunner says go straight for ch. 7. He was very confident, no hesitation, no quivering of his own opinions, etc.
I felt most assured by this attorney......BUT would i rather have a ch. 13/36 mo plan, is my question to me.
Sounds like you are getting closer to picking a lawyer which will help quite a bit.
I will say, a number of folks seem to poo-poo on Ch 13 because of the length of the plan. For us, it was a struggle AT FIRST, mainly because we were living off of one salary. So it was tight financially and we had to get used to not using a credit card as a crutch to fill in gaps. But once we got used it, we went back to paying cash for everything and five years flew by. I'm not saying this to force Ch 13 on anyone, but simply if you choose to use the time in plan to make permanent changes to how you use credit and budget/spend, you will find that 36 months will go by quickly.
@Anonymous wrote:Sounds like you are getting closer to picking a lawyer which will help quite a bit.
I will say, a number of folks seem to poo-poo on Ch 13 because of the length of the plan. For us, it was a struggle AT FIRST, mainly because we were living off of one salary. So it was tight financially and we had to get used to not using a credit card as a crutch to fill in gaps. But once we got used it, we went back to paying cash for everything and five years flew by. I'm not saying this to force Ch 13 on anyone, but simply if you choose to use the time in plan to make permanent changes to how you use credit and budget/spend, you will find that 36 months will go by quickly.
Thank you...The ch 13 doesn't 'scare' me too much necessarily and these are the pros of a 13/36 mo plan, IMO of course.
I would not want a ch 13/60 month plan though.
Pros: Ch 13/36 month plan:
-'Teach' financial responsibility, change spending habits.
-Rent, so any home repairs or appliance purchases is on the landlord.
-Have 2 good running vehicles, so hopeful major mechanical repairs would not be a concern.
-Single household, so only emergency expenses would be on myself.
-Be able to keep any 'luxury' items, misc assets, tools.
-Be able to pay back taxes in ch 13 payment plan, whereas 7 would not discharge them.
Cons Ch. 13/36 month plan
-Financial struggles for 3 yrs possible.
-Couldn't buy house for 5+ yrs after filing.
Ch 7 Pros:
-Eliminate large debt
-Ability to buy home in 2 -3 yrs post discharge
-Keep 2 vehicles since they qualify
-Keep a luxury item since it is current
-Less expensive to file ($4000 is high though, ch. 13 may be $8000 but it was not discussed)
Ch. 7 cons:
-Tax bill would still be owed
-Lose most property, luxury items, etc...
I don't care about BK on reports for 7 vs 10 yrs. Buying a home 2-3 yrs post BK, is paramount.
These are the key aspects of each BK that im tossing around in my head. Any other concerns or thoughts that i'm missing on the pros/cons of each?
@Anonymous wrote:Sounds like you are getting closer to picking a lawyer which will help quite a bit.
I will say, a number of folks seem to poo-poo on Ch 13 because of the length of the plan. For us, it was a struggle AT FIRST, mainly because we were living off of one salary. So it was tight financially and we had to get used to not using a credit card as a crutch to fill in gaps. But once we got used it, we went back to paying cash for everything and five years flew by. I'm not saying this to force Ch 13 on anyone, but simply if you choose to use the time in plan to make permanent changes to how you use credit and budget/spend, you will find that 36 months will go by quickly.
I don't know what just happened, but i just replied to your comments and my post was deleted and marked as spam? lol
I was explaining how im not concerned with a ch 13/36 month plan so much....I listed the pros and cons of 7 and 13 and weighing them out.
Not sure why the mods would delete such a simple post?