FYI , all Cap One business cardholders

[creditwherecreditisdue]

Do your terms on the Cap1 business accounts include a personal guarantee?

[CreditDrama85]

yes and each cardmember has to give their SSN

[GregB]

I sent a message to CapOne explainging that the card was for an LLC and that I had no problem with them reporting NEGATIVE info on my personal account. I did not want a purely business account reporting on my personal CR. This was the reply:

Experian is changing the way it calculates business credit scores as a
result of the current economic conditions. This change is applicable to
only business credit scores. Capital One does not have information about
credit score calculations or other details regarding the change.

Please contact Experian Credit Bureau directly with any questions about
the business credit score calculation change.

I guess it will be interesting to see if it appears on personal credit reports. Obviously it should report on Experian Business Credit Reports.

[CreditDrama85]

that seems like a system generated response. it is capital one that is changing their policy which is why we received the disclaimer/alert.... experian probably is changing their formula but capital one didnt really answer the question.

The first line of the disclaimer alone makes me think it will report "We will be reporting your Capital One® Small Business

Credit Card status to consumer credit bureaus beginning October 1, 2009."

i think that because it says, will be, meaning they havent done so yet. and it says "consumer" and "bureaus" (not just experian)....

i guess we will find out after october 1st .......

Message Edited by CreditDrama85 on 09-23-2009 08:39 AM

[Anonymous]

Hi, Capital One employees lurking.   And to Fico Forum members, how could I have written my letters differently?      I'm clear to myself, in my own head; but I realize what's clear to me isn't going to be clear to someone else.  I'll post Capital One's response (if I receive one).  If posting these correspondences are against FICO policy, I apologize and it's okay for the moderators to delete.

I'm just upset that I couldn't get a policy answer out of Capital One by email.  The fact that their canned responses don't deal with a universal policy change is disturbing to me.   Yes, I have a balance transfer with Capital One.   No, I don't know if this new reporting is of the Advanta variety (ie - Advanta only ratejacked business card owners who had balance transfer deals; and not business card owners who never took advantage of balance transfers and always paid in full each month) or of the Chase buying out WaMu variety (ie - interest rate increases and credit limit decreases are rolled out to everyone, on a rolling time table, apparently depending on closeness to end of promotional rates).

Reading up online, it appears that there were reports of this happening at least as early as JUNE of this year.  I hadn't heard of it until I went online this month to another credit board.   I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post the BUSINESSWEEK link.  But the date is June 12, 2009, 8:41AM EST, the section is Small Biz, the title is  "WHEN YOUR BUSINESS LOAN AFFECTS YOUR PERSONAL CREDIT:  Small business debt hasn't traditionall been reported to consumer credit bureaus, but the rules of the game are changing"  by John Tozzi, and the money quote is:

"...The third sentence in the letter Gary Kerr received earlier this month about his $50,000 loan from Capital One (COF) surprised him: "We'll begin reporting your loan status to business and consumer credit bureaus from July 15, 2009." In more than 20 years as an entrepreneur, Kerr says business loans had never affected his personal credit score...."

Anyway, below is my own correspondense with Capital One:  

September 20, 2009 10:26 AM Subject: Account terms (fees, APR, etc.) Message:
Hello. What is happening with the business accounts? I keep reading online where people are getting their September statements with changes of terms stating that Capital One will report business accounts to personal credit reports beginning October 1st. I have received no notice of this nature and want to know what is going on, and why it is being done. Also, will you still report to D&B? (I have not accessed my business' Equifax business credit report and my Experian business credit report is split into two separate reports, my LLC name and my DBA name, with other problems).September 21, 2009 07:46 AM Subject: Re: Account terms (fees, APR, etc.) Message: Dear NONAII,

Thanks for contacting us about your Capital One account.

Experian is changing the way it calculates business credit scores as a
result of the current economic conditions. This change is applicable to
only business credit scores. Capital One does not have information about
credit score calculations or other details regarding the change.

Please contact Experian Credit Bureau directly with any question about
the business credit score calculation change because we do not have
access to that infromation.

Experian
PO Box 2104
Allen TX 70513

If you have any questions, please give us a call at 1-800-955-7070. Our
Customer Service Representatives are available 24 hours a day, 7 days a
week.

Sincerely,
Capital One Services, LLC

 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

September 21, 2009 03:00 PM Subject: Re: Account terms (fees, APR, etc.) Message:
Experian changed their formula around January 5th, 2009. At least, that's when I first saw the change on my business reports. That's not what I'm asking and I apologize if my question wasn't very clear.

My main question is: Is Capital One reporting information about business credit cards to account holder's personal credit reports beginning October 1st? Will my company's business credit card appear on my personal consumer credit reports?

This credit card is listed under both my Employer Identification Number as well as my Social Security Number. I will figure out what is going to happen with my business credit reports on my own. But I am very concerned about my business credit card ALSO appearing on my personal credit reports, as business spending is not at all like consumer spending.

I hope to hear from you soon.September 26, 2009 12:32 PM Subject: Re: Account terms (fees, APR, etc.) Message: Hello NONAII,

Thanks for contacting us about your Capital One account.

We report to the three major credit bureaus every 30 days.

You are a valued customer and we thank you for choosing Capital One.

If you have questions, please respond to this email or our Customer
Service Representatives are available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week at
1-800-955-7070.

Sincerely,
Capital One Services, LLC

 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

September 28, 2009 12:54 AM Subject: Other corporate questions Message:
Thank you for responding. I had hoped I would not receive a form letter.
I'm only concerned about my business credit cards showing up on my personal consumer report effective October 1, 2009. I wanted to know Capital One's official policy regarding that, as I had received nothing in the mail - postal or electronically - regarding this.

I hold a Washington Mutual business credit card. In March of this year, WaMu biz card owners en masse contacted Chase to let Chase know that their business credit cards were showing up on their personal consumer reports. Chase reps confirmed that that should not be the case for biz cards, and Chase was very quick in rectifying the situation.

On the other hand, Discover and State Farm both changed their policy regarding biz card reporting without contacting card holders -- in effect changing the business card holder agreement without informing business card holders -- around October 2008 Discover biz cards and State Farm biz cards now report to personal consumer reporting agencies.

Citi Professional biz card reports to personal consumer reporting agencies. A regular Citi biz card -- which I own -- does not report.

Please let me know what is happening or even if you do not know the answer. It is preferable to receive the response 'I don't know' and 'We are researching' over a form letter. I am especially disheartened because I waited a biz week to receive a response. I thought you guys were researching my specific concern. You were not. There's not even a customer rep name attached for reference's sake.

Anyway, that's neither here nor there. Are Capital One electronic CSRs trained on biz card reporting matters?

Thank you for your time, and I will again await your response.

[creditwherecreditisdue]

Great non-responses!

No they are probably not trained in business credit reporting. You most likely need to address your questions to someone specifically involved in business credit cards. It would probably be more effective if you could get a business specialist in the telephone.

[GregB]

My emails and the replies from CapOne are almost the same as nonaii's conversations. They are obviously canned responses.

I'm just going to wait and see what happens as I don't think it would make too much difference.

I'm at $90K out of $180K on CC now so just over the 50% Util group. If my CapOne Business account reports, I will be at $99K out of $200K so it will drop me just under 50% Util.

I guess that might help my score unless owing $100K on CC scares the heck out of FICO. I know it shocks me even though I know that about half of it is business that used to be on Amex Business Capital Line and Advanta that didn't report.

[creditwherecreditisdue]

FICO looks at percentages and dates and not raw dollar amounts. Issuers look at raw dollar amounts and the relationship between income and debt/debt service.

[GregB]

And a Business Credit Card is being paid from business cash flow. This is why it should not be reported on a personal credit report.

Statement that just closed for the CapOne Business account was about $11,000 starting balance. I made one charge for $6,018 and the statement closed with interest charged on the $11,000 from the previous month. I just paid $2,000 on the old balance and scheduled $6,018 payment for the due date. If I have any extra I will pay down the $9,000 old balance. That is paid out of business cash flow and has little relationship to my personal income, which is probably about $0 for the month. 

[Anonymous]

---

@GregB wrote:

My emails and the replies from CapOne are almost the same as nonaii's conversations. They are obviously canned responses.

I'm just going to wait and see what happens as I don't think it would make too much difference.

I'm at $90K out of $180K on CC now so just over the 50% Util group. If my CapOne Business account reports, I will be at $99K out of $200K so it will drop me just under 50% Util.

I guess that might help my score unless owing $100K on CC scares the heck out of FICO. I know it shocks me even though I know that about half of it is business that used to be on Amex Business Capital Line and Advanta that didn't report.

---

Hi Credit and Greg.  I finally got a response this morning.  Wonder why I had to send it specifically to 'other corporate questions' to get a response; maybe today being the 30th of September allowed them to finally say what would affect this specific account.  Unprofessional customer service, either way.

 ====================================================================

Date: September 30, 2009 02:03 PM Subject: Re: Other corporate questions Message: Hello NONAII,

Thanks for contacting us about your Capital One account.

Effective October 1, Capital One will begin reporting Small Business
Card and LOC (Line of Credit) accounts to the four consumer credit
bureaus (Innovis, Experian, Equifax and TransUnion). Non-profit Small
Business accounts will not be reported to the consumer credit bureaus.
We will continue reporting Small Business accounts to the three business
credit bureaus (Equifax, Experian, and Dun and Bradstreet) as well.

Notification of this change has been sent via reegular US mail.

You are a valued customer and we thank you for choosing Capital One.

If you have questions, please respond to this email or our Customer
Service Representatives are available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week at
1-800-955-7070.

Sincerely,
Capital One Services, LLC

=============================================================

other things:

* this is the first time I've seen them acknowledge FOUR major credit bureaus (yeah, we all know here at myfico there are many, many more, but still) -- when just last week in their form letter they only acknowledged THREE.  yea, i guess?

* i hope the scammers who have screwed up small business credit for real business owners don't screw things up for non-profits.  since i am not on the board of a non-profit, i don't know what's going on in that area... or how they've been affected by the fall out of the economy going south.  Any non profits here?

* i got the notice on my mailed statement, just as everyone else did.  my statement date falls at the end of the month, though, so without the internet I would have been completely taken by surprise.   i wonder what would have happened if I had chosen to receive electronic statements only, in the past?

* maybe I do need to follow Credit's advice about speaking to an actual business rep over the phone. i like to stay off the phones, though, and keep it to correspondence I can print out.  anyone can say anything over the phone.

* GregB, yes, your credit scores should actually improve a little because you'l be under the 50% utilization line in the sand.  I just don't believe business cards should be reported to personal reports, regardless of personal guarantees, unless such cards are treated as installment loans and mortgates are.  Unless such cards are treated 'differently' in the scoring.  Wishes in one hand and ---- in the other ..... 

Thank you both for your responses.  Capital One... eh.  I guess there's worse, knock on wood (ie, Bank of America).