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Interesting DP regarding Amex personal and business card applications

simplynoir
Community Leader
Super Contributor

Re: Interesting DP regarding Amex personal and business card applications


@Thammer wrote:

Good catch. I must have read it wrong. That is a business card too. Which makes this whole thing even weirder. 


Are the three cards you mentioned in your post the only AMEX cards you have with them? AMEX does have a revolver limit but you still have a slot or two left if those are all your cards

 

Edit: have you considered attempting a recon of the denial? Wouldn't hurt to try

Message 11 of 21
jasonbourne84
Regular Contributor

Re: Interesting DP regarding Amex personal and business card applications


@simplynoir wrote:

@jasonbourne84 wrote:

@4sallypat wrote:

So based on your DP, does it seem like Amex has lower UW criteria for charge card vs revolver which seems to have tougher criteria ?


Trying to determine how Amex treats apples versus oranges by analyzing how Amex treats bananas versus cucumbers doesn't work. In other words, your personal CR has little to no bearing on whether Amex approves a biz card. 

 

Edit: That said, I think it's true that Amex's UW is more lenient regarding its chargers than it is for its revolvers. 


I am perplexed by this statement


Well, now I'm perplexed by this statement. lol. 

Message 12 of 21
jasonbourne84
Regular Contributor

Re: Interesting DP regarding Amex personal and business card applications

@simplynoir Perhaps I should qualify it by saying that it has little to no bearing for businesses that are well-established, more than a sole proprietorship, and the person applying doesn't have such poor credit that they can't meet the minimum qualifications to act as a guarantor.

Message 13 of 21
simplynoir
Community Leader
Super Contributor

Re: Interesting DP regarding Amex personal and business card applications


@jasonbourne84 wrote:

@simplynoir Perhaps I should qualify it by saying that it has little to no bearing for businesses that are well-established, more than a sole proprietorship, and the person applying doesn't have such poor credit that they can't meet the minimum qualifications to act as a guarantor.


This makes more sense to me. Even if you have an EIN and an established business AMEX will still want your SSN if for anything just to verify you have no past negative history with AMEX such as defaults. Even then I think they would scrutinize any derogatories if present from collections to BK on your file. What you are speaking to is big businesses with a lot of employees that need credit solutions in the 50-100+ employee range. At that point their corporate program is need and is a different beast altogether when getting credit from AMEX

Message 14 of 21
jasonbourne84
Regular Contributor

Re: Interesting DP regarding Amex personal and business card applications


@simplynoir wrote:

@jasonbourne84 wrote:

@simplynoir Perhaps I should qualify it by saying that it has little to no bearing for businesses that are well-established, more than a sole proprietorship, and the person applying doesn't have such poor credit that they can't meet the minimum qualifications to act as a guarantor.


This makes more sense to me. Even if you have an EIN and an established business AMEX will still want your SSN if for anything just to verify you have no past negative history with AMEX such as defaults. Even then I think they would scrutinize any derogatories if present from collections to BK on your file. What you are speaking to is big businesses with a lot of employees that need credit solutions in the 50-100+ employee range. At that point their corporate program is need and is a different beast altogether when getting credit from AMEX


My company has only ~10 employees, and only two of us are owners. I just picked up my Amex Biz Plat last week. The same day, I talked to Amex UW directly (about a CLI request on a DH card) and also asked him about my POT limit on the business card. That led to a discussion about personal v. business credit (specifically about both cross-credit implications and credit worthiness). He told me that the same thing I said above - little to no bearing. Shrug. 

Message 15 of 21
simplynoir
Community Leader
Super Contributor

Re: Interesting DP regarding Amex personal and business card applications


@jasonbourne84 wrote:

@simplynoir wrote:

@jasonbourne84 wrote:

@simplynoir Perhaps I should qualify it by saying that it has little to no bearing for businesses that are well-established, more than a sole proprietorship, and the person applying doesn't have such poor credit that they can't meet the minimum qualifications to act as a guarantor.


This makes more sense to me. Even if you have an EIN and an established business AMEX will still want your SSN if for anything just to verify you have no past negative history with AMEX such as defaults. Even then I think they would scrutinize any derogatories if present from collections to BK on your file. What you are speaking to is big businesses with a lot of employees that need credit solutions in the 50-100+ employee range. At that point their corporate program is need and is a different beast altogether when getting credit from AMEX


My company has only ~10 employees, and only two of us are owners. I just picked up my Amex Biz Plat last week. The same day, I talked to Amex UW directly (about a CLI request on a DH card) and also asked him about my POT limit on the business card. That led to a discussion about personal v. business credit (specifically about both cross-credit implications and credit worthiness). He told me that the same thing I said above - little to no bearing. Shrug. 


I wouldn't trust the word of one customer service agent here. It's like when someone has to HUCA just to get something done: different responses with different experience levels make it to where you won't get one unifying answer

Message 16 of 21
jasonbourne84
Regular Contributor

Re: Interesting DP regarding Amex personal and business card applications


@simplynoir wrote:

@jasonbourne84 wrote:

@simplynoir wrote:

@jasonbourne84 wrote:

@simplynoir Perhaps I should qualify it by saying that it has little to no bearing for businesses that are well-established, more than a sole proprietorship, and the person applying doesn't have such poor credit that they can't meet the minimum qualifications to act as a guarantor.


This makes more sense to me. Even if you have an EIN and an established business AMEX will still want your SSN if for anything just to verify you have no past negative history with AMEX such as defaults. Even then I think they would scrutinize any derogatories if present from collections to BK on your file. What you are speaking to is big businesses with a lot of employees that need credit solutions in the 50-100+ employee range. At that point their corporate program is need and is a different beast altogether when getting credit from AMEX


My company has only ~10 employees, and only two of us are owners. I just picked up my Amex Biz Plat last week. The same day, I talked to Amex UW directly (about a CLI request on a DH card) and also asked him about my POT limit on the business card. That led to a discussion about personal v. business credit (specifically about both cross-credit implications and credit worthiness). He told me that the same thing I said above - little to no bearing. Shrug. 


I wouldn't trust the word of one customer service agent here. It's like when someone has to HUCA just to get something done: different responses with different experience levels make it to where you won't get one unifying answer


That's fair. It's at least worth qualifying, to be sure. My point is this - the OP seemed surprise by the disparate treatment between their personal and business apps. Yet, there clearly seems to be a dilenation such that your personal CR doesn't have the kind of influence on your biz apps that it does for your personal ones, which I think is reflected by the OPs experience. 

Message 17 of 21
FinStar
Moderator

Re: Interesting DP regarding Amex personal and business card applications


@jasonbourne84 wrote:

@simplynoir wrote:

@jasonbourne84 wrote:

@simplynoir wrote:

@jasonbourne84 wrote:

@simplynoir Perhaps I should qualify it by saying that it has little to no bearing for businesses that are well-established, more than a sole proprietorship, and the person applying doesn't have such poor credit that they can't meet the minimum qualifications to act as a guarantor.


This makes more sense to me. Even if you have an EIN and an established business AMEX will still want your SSN if for anything just to verify you have no past negative history with AMEX such as defaults. Even then I think they would scrutinize any derogatories if present from collections to BK on your file. What you are speaking to is big businesses with a lot of employees that need credit solutions in the 50-100+ employee range. At that point their corporate program is need and is a different beast altogether when getting credit from AMEX


My company has only ~10 employees, and only two of us are owners. I just picked up my Amex Biz Plat last week. The same day, I talked to Amex UW directly (about a CLI request on a DH card) and also asked him about my POT limit on the business card. That led to a discussion about personal v. business credit (specifically about both cross-credit implications and credit worthiness). He told me that the same thing I said above - little to no bearing. Shrug. 


I wouldn't trust the word of one customer service agent here. It's like when someone has to HUCA just to get something done: different responses with different experience levels make it to where you won't get one unifying answer


That's fair. It's at least worth qualifying, to be sure. My point is this - the OP seemed surprise by the disparate treatment between their personal and business apps. Yet, there clearly seems to be a dilenation such that your personal CR doesn't have the kind of influence on your biz apps that it does for your personal ones, which I think is reflected by the OPs experience. 


I beg to differ. I'm at 17 active AENB revolving cards (personal & biz), and several charge cards (personal & biz).

 

I really don't know about any "delineation", but I do know they factor your personal credit profile to a great extent, reported or verifiable income sources, your internal history with AENB (as applicable), supplemental data sources that will never be known to us, stated revenue and biz reports (where possible). It's all going to be profile-dependent regardless. So, the OP may have and an outcome that may be perplexing to some, but only AENB knows what it does.

Message 18 of 21
jasonbourne84
Regular Contributor

Re: Interesting DP regarding Amex personal and business card applications


@FinStar wrote:

@jasonbourne84 wrote:

@simplynoir wrote:

@jasonbourne84 wrote:

@simplynoir wrote:

@jasonbourne84 wrote:

@simplynoir Perhaps I should qualify it by saying that it has little to no bearing for businesses that are well-established, more than a sole proprietorship, and the person applying doesn't have such poor credit that they can't meet the minimum qualifications to act as a guarantor.


This makes more sense to me. Even if you have an EIN and an established business AMEX will still want your SSN if for anything just to verify you have no past negative history with AMEX such as defaults. Even then I think they would scrutinize any derogatories if present from collections to BK on your file. What you are speaking to is big businesses with a lot of employees that need credit solutions in the 50-100+ employee range. At that point their corporate program is need and is a different beast altogether when getting credit from AMEX


My company has only ~10 employees, and only two of us are owners. I just picked up my Amex Biz Plat last week. The same day, I talked to Amex UW directly (about a CLI request on a DH card) and also asked him about my POT limit on the business card. That led to a discussion about personal v. business credit (specifically about both cross-credit implications and credit worthiness). He told me that the same thing I said above - little to no bearing. Shrug. 


I wouldn't trust the word of one customer service agent here. It's like when someone has to HUCA just to get something done: different responses with different experience levels make it to where you won't get one unifying answer


That's fair. It's at least worth qualifying, to be sure. My point is this - the OP seemed surprise by the disparate treatment between their personal and business apps. Yet, there clearly seems to be a dilenation such that your personal CR doesn't have the kind of influence on your biz apps that it does for your personal ones, which I think is reflected by the OPs experience. 


I beg to differ. I'm at 17 active AENB revolving cards (personal & biz), and several charge cards (personal & biz).

 

I really don't know about any "delineation", but I do know they factor your personal credit profile to a great extent, reported or verifiable income sources, your internal history with AENB (as applicable), supplemental data sources that will never be known to us, stated revenue and biz reports (where possible). It's all going to be profile-dependent regardless. So, the OP may have and an outcome that may be perplexing to some, but only AENB knows what it does.


  1. When you say "reported or verifiable income sources," are you referring to personal or business income? Neither me nor my business partner have never once been asked for our personal income on our business credit applications (to be fair, this is my first business card application, but he's done just as many as you). The fact that they don't ask about personal income is itself suggestive of some level of delineation. 
  2. "Supplemental data sources that will never be known to us" is meaningless in this context. 
  3. "Stated revenue" is not personal; it's business, just as business reports are about business.

 

 

Message 19 of 21
FinStar
Moderator

Re: Interesting DP regarding Amex personal and business card applications


@jasonbourne84 wrote:

@FinStar wrote:

@jasonbourne84 wrote:

@simplynoir wrote:

@jasonbourne84 wrote:

@simplynoir wrote:

@jasonbourne84 wrote:

@simplynoir Perhaps I should qualify it by saying that it has little to no bearing for businesses that are well-established, more than a sole proprietorship, and the person applying doesn't have such poor credit that they can't meet the minimum qualifications to act as a guarantor.


This makes more sense to me. Even if you have an EIN and an established business AMEX will still want your SSN if for anything just to verify you have no past negative history with AMEX such as defaults. Even then I think they would scrutinize any derogatories if present from collections to BK on your file. What you are speaking to is big businesses with a lot of employees that need credit solutions in the 50-100+ employee range. At that point their corporate program is need and is a different beast altogether when getting credit from AMEX


My company has only ~10 employees, and only two of us are owners. I just picked up my Amex Biz Plat last week. The same day, I talked to Amex UW directly (about a CLI request on a DH card) and also asked him about my POT limit on the business card. That led to a discussion about personal v. business credit (specifically about both cross-credit implications and credit worthiness). He told me that the same thing I said above - little to no bearing. Shrug. 


I wouldn't trust the word of one customer service agent here. It's like when someone has to HUCA just to get something done: different responses with different experience levels make it to where you won't get one unifying answer


That's fair. It's at least worth qualifying, to be sure. My point is this - the OP seemed surprise by the disparate treatment between their personal and business apps. Yet, there clearly seems to be a dilenation such that your personal CR doesn't have the kind of influence on your biz apps that it does for your personal ones, which I think is reflected by the OPs experience. 


I beg to differ. I'm at 17 active AENB revolving cards (personal & biz), and several charge cards (personal & biz).

 

I really don't know about any "delineation", but I do know they factor your personal credit profile to a great extent, reported or verifiable income sources, your internal history with AENB (as applicable), supplemental data sources that will never be known to us, stated revenue and biz reports (where possible). It's all going to be profile-dependent regardless. So, the OP may have and an outcome that may be perplexing to some, but only AENB knows what it does.


  1. When you say "reported or verifiable income sources," are you referring to personal or business income? Personal, as provided on the small business CC application.  There are 2 sections on the application. Besides, AENB can request to verify POI at any given time (via 4506C, financial statements, etc., such as during the course of any FRs or as required) Neither me nor my business partner have never once been asked for our personal income on our business credit applications - next time, check. Because the fields are there, it's either auto-populated (if you select that option based on existing cards -- see screenshots below) or required for input (i.e. it's not something that can be bypassed without input) (to be fair, this is my first business card application, but he's done just as many as you)  He doesn't have as many as I do, but this is irrelevant. The fact that they don't ask about personal income is itself suggestive of some level of delineation. Again, see the fields below (i.e. screenshots)
  2. "Supplemental data sources that will never be known to us" is meaningless in this context. May be meaningless to you, but there's plenty of DPs that have been confirmed to be used - read around.
  3. "Stated revenue" is not personal; it's business, just as business reports are about business. Revenue is a separate field - again reference the application fields.

AENB BIZ1.jpg

 

AENB BIZ2.jpg

Message 20 of 21
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