Applied and Denied for High End Travel Cards

[Anonymous]

Hey everyone, this is my first post so I’m gonna provide a little background. I am a 25 year old graduate student, 1 year from graduating. I have no undergrad debt, but substantial dental school debt, about $350,000 currently, however it is all in good standing. I have 2 credit cards: a Nordstrom visa in which i was an AU with a $15,000 limit, and very little utilization (maybe $100-500 a month) for a little more than 8 years. My other credit card is a Citi Thankyou Preferred under my name with currently a $5,000 limit ($1,900 limit until about a month ago), which I utilized about $500-$800 every month for the past 4 years. For my other expenses i have used a debit card linked directly to my bank account. And lastly, about a month ago i got immediately approved for an Amex Gold which i intend to use as my everyday card because most of my money is spent on food. I have never had any late payments and have always paid the balance in full every month, sometimes twice a month, on each card. According to credit karma, my TU score is 766 and my Experian score is 761. According to my Amex account, it says my FICO score is 745. Im not sure which is the most accurate, but im assuming Amex.

Furthermore, I get about $24,000 deposited in my account from an outside untaxed source, in addition to a $30,000 annual salary, and $30,000 for living expenses from the government (i didnt put this under my income, but the chase representative entered it during my phone application). I also listed my assets between $100,000 and $200,000 for stocks and a retirement fund (not sure if i should have done that or not).

So here is where my question begins. This coming spring and summer I intend to go on 3 or 4 trips, in addition to my school externship, all of which require relatively lengthy hotel stays and flights. I was hoping to get one of the higher end travel cards so i could rack up points during all these travel purchases, as well as take advantage of the card perks. I applied for the Sapphire Reserve, Amex Platinum, and the Captial One Venture (which said i was pre-approved). Amex denied immediately, Chase said to call them (which i did today) and told me i'd have a decision in a week, and Venture denied immediately (not sure if the two previous applications had anything to do with this).

So here is my question(s) in a few parts. What is the main reason for my denials? Im assuming the large loan/debt amount, but if thats the case why did i get approved for the gold card, and what about people who just bought a house or a business and also have massive debt? Second, is there any way the platinum denial was just because amex wanted to see how i handle the gold first? And if so, at what point can i reapply for platinum? Third, what advice do you experts have on what i can/should do to improve my appeal to creditors, before i can start paying my loans back? And lastly, after the phone review with chase, what are the chances i get approved for the CSR?

I know this is lengthy and i appologize for the long read, but any help/advice or answers to any part of my loaded question would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance everyone!

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:

Hey everyone, this is my first post so I’m gonna provide a little background. I am a 25 year old graduate student, 1 year from graduating. I have no undergrad debt, but substantial dental school debt, about $350,000 currently, however it is all in good standing. I have 2 credit cards: a Nordstrom visa in which i was an AU with a $15,000 limit, and very little utilization (maybe $100-500 a month) for a little more than 8 years. My other credit card is a Citi Thankyou Preferred under my name with currently a $5,000 limit ($1,900 limit until about a month ago), which I utilized about $500-$800 every month for the past 4 years. For my other expenses i have used a debit card linked directly to my bank account. And lastly, about a month ago i got immediately approved for an Amex Gold which i intend to use as my everyday card because most of my money is spent on food. I have never had any late payments and have always paid the balance in full every month, sometimes twice a month, on each card. According to credit karma, my TU score is 766 and my Experian score is 761. According to my Amex account, it says my FICO score is 745. Im not sure which is the most accurate, but im assuming Amex.

Furthermore, I get about $24,000 deposited in my account from an outside untaxed source, in addition to a $30,000 annual salary, and $30,000 for living expenses from the government (i didnt put this under my income, but the chase representative entered it during my phone application). I also listed my assets between $100,000 and $200,000 for stocks and a retirement fund (not sure if i should have done that or not).

So here is where my question begins. This coming spring and summer I intend to go on 3 or 4 trips, in addition to my school externship, all of which require relatively lengthy hotel stays and flights. I was hoping to get one of the higher end travel cards so i could rack up points during all these travel purchases, as well as take advantage of the card perks. I applied for the Sapphire Reserve, Amex Platinum, and the Captial One Venture (which said i was pre-approved). Amex denied immediately, Chase said to call them (which i did today) and told me i'd have a decision in a week, and Venture denied immediately (not sure if the two previous applications had anything to do with this).

So here is my question(s) in a few parts. What is the main reason for my denials? Im assuming the large loan/debt amount, but if thats the case why did i get approved for the gold card, and what about people who just bought a house or a business and also have massive debt? Second, is there any way the platinum denial was just because amex wanted to see how i handle the gold first? And if so, at what point can i reapply for platinum? Third, what advice do you experts have on what i can/should do to improve my appeal to creditors, before i can start paying my loans back? And lastly, after the phone review with chase, what are the chances i get approved for the CSR?

I know this is lengthy and i appologize for the long read, but any help/advice or answers to any part of my loaded question would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance everyone!

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Federal law requires lenders to notify applicants for credit of any adverse action (denial of credit is an adverse action) within 30 days; lenders usually send the notice within 7-10 days so you'll know the exact reasons shortly.

However, you stated that you had the Amex Gold for one month.  Its unlikely that Amex will approve you for a Platinum card with such a short history on the Gold card, which probably hasn't even reported the the credit reporting agencies yet.  Keep watching the Amex site; you will know when you're pre-approved for the Platinum card.

For Chase, you don't have a response yet, but if you were denied it would be because you don't have experience with a credit line of $10K or above.  The minimum approval for a CSR is $10K and Chase often looks to see if you have another credit line at a corresponding amount.

[Lemark]

It doesn't seem like the loan/amount debt is the reason. Chase in particular like to base it's decision on income most of the time. Plus, they often like you to start on one of their entry cards before going for high perk cards so you can build a relationship with them.  It also doesn't seem like you are in the 2/30 or 5/24 rule criteria which is the next catch. My first Chase card was a denial till income changed and then I built up their chain of cards. For the Amex most likely you are right about the reason. I got denied an increase because I hadn't shown regular use of the limit I had so used card a bit over 6 month before retrying and getting increase. 6 months is the general period for reapplying and automatic increases. For Chase for instance I started at 10k, to 19k to 22K all based on automatic increase from regular use. Regular use and payoff is best way to entice  Chase and Amex. It's still possible, so long as you explained your situation to credit specialist. My case for instance was yesterday I had one of my 5/24 cards fall to 4/24 but I still had a card in pending state with Amex so was technically at 5/24 but took the risk and applied for CSR. I was given the 30 day message and after a few mins changed to 7-10 days. Since I had recently opened 2 new cards when Chase tried to pull report it still counted as the same old for some reason so they forced another hard pull using a different Chase address and today I logged in and saw CSR online. So sometimes it takes a while since they have to check your profile. I hope you are successful. P.S: Do not risk 5/24 when at 5/24

[Anonymous]

Hey guys, thanks for the responses... i wanted to see what the creditors gave as reasons for denials before replying back. So i received a letter from chase today stating "obligations too high relative to income," however this letter was dated before I called for the recon and before they adjusted my income from $45,000 to $84,000. So i am assuming that i still may receive another letter with other denial information, or possibly (but doubtfully) an approval. 

Anyways, i wanted to start a relationship with chase in the meantime, so i opened a checking account with them. But, when i look at the just for you tab on my chase account, it says i am pre-qualified for CSP, freedom, and freedom unlimited. So should i apply for one of those cards relatively soon, or should i still wait a little while until my Amex and new citi credit limit post on my credit report and chase can see that i use them responsibly.

Also, what is the deal with the 5/24 rule? I understand it applies to actually getting approved for, and opening 5 new cards in 24 months. However, does the rule include applications and then denials, or just approvals? If thats the case, then i have applied for 4 cards in the last 2 months, however I only got approved for 1 card (amex gold). So does that mean i only get 1 application left for the next 24 months? Or am i able to apply for "as many" cards as i want until i get approved for 4 more cards?

Once again thanks for the help everyone.

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:

Hey guys, thanks for the responses... i wanted to see what the creditors gave as reasons for denials before replying back. So i received a letter from chase today stating "obligations too high relative to income," however this letter was dated before I called for the recon and before they adjusted my income from $45,000 to $84,000. So i am assuming that i still may receive another letter with other denial information, or possibly (but doubtfully) an approval. 

Anyways, i wanted to start a relationship with chase in the meantime, so i opened a checking account with them. But, when i look at the just for you tab on my chase account, it says i am pre-qualified for CSP, freedom, and freedom unlimited. So should i apply for one of those cards relatively soon, or should i still wait a little while until my Amex and new citi credit limit post on my credit report and chase can see that i use them responsibly.

Also, what is the deal with the 5/24 rule? I understand it applies to actually getting approved for, and opening 5 new cards in 24 months. However, does the rule include applications and then denials, or just approvals? If thats the case, then i have applied for 4 cards in the last 2 months, however I only got approved for 1 card (amex gold). So does that mean i only get 1 application left for the next 24 months? Or am i able to apply for "as many" cards as i want until i get approved for 4 more cards?

Once again thanks for the help everyone.

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You should call the recon line to clarify if a decision was made subsequent to your call to them where your income information was updated.  Its likely that the previous denial will still stand but knowing the status of your recon will help you determine how to proceed.

Regarding whether you should apply for the cards for which you now have pre-approvals, my advice is to go to a Chase branch and speak with a personal banker.  He/she can tell you if you have an "in-branch approval" which is practically a guarantee that you will be approved for the card(s).  Also, the personal banker can submit your application and get an immediate decision from the lending side of the business.

Typically you would be advised to wait 30 days from the date of your last application but since you've had recon involved in the previous decision, your best option is to see a personal banker who hopefully will be able to tell you the current status of your previous CSR application and also help you apply for the pre-approved card(s) of your choice.

The 5/24 rule is that Chase will automatically deny any application for certain Chase -issued credit cards like the Sapphire and Freedom product lines, if the applicant has opened 5 or more new credit card accounts in the last 24 months.  Only new credit accounts are counted, not applications nor denials.

[Anonymous]

These questions were not addressed earlier so I'll try to answer now...

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@Anonymous wrote:

>snip<

So here is my question(s) in a few parts. What is the main reason for my denials? Im assuming the large loan/debt amount, but if thats the case why did i get approved for the gold card, and what about people who just bought a house or a business and also have massive debt? Second, is there any way the platinum denial was just because amex wanted to see how i handle the gold first? And if so, at what point can i reapply for platinum? Third, what advice do you experts have on what i can/should do to improve my appeal to creditors, before i can start paying my loans back? And lastly, after the phone review with chase, what are the chances i get approved for the CSR?

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(1) You should know the reason(s) for your denials by now; at least for the Chase Sapphire Reserve.  Basically you applied for the flagship products of three issuers - Chase, Amex, and Capital One - without a credit history to support approvals.  These cards have the most strigent requirements for their issuers which you don't appear to meet.  At the time of your application you had one credit card which had only recently been raised to a $5,000 credit limit.  You had no demonstrable experience handling high credit limits. Issuers generally ignore AU accounts because as an AU, you are not responsible for the payment of the account.  So you would have needed a much more extensive track record of credit use to be approved for the cards you applied for.

(2) The debt would be a concern but it would be secondary to lack of an extensive credit history.

A home or a business is a tangible asset and financing the purchase of either is a debt secured against the tangible asset; if you fail to meet your financial obligations a lender can attach a lien to your home or business, or even repossess and sell it to recover their funds.

A credit card, by comparison, is an unsecured debt and in the absence of "debtors' prisons" the only means lenders have to incentivize you to repay an unsecured debt is to charge high interest rates,  or outright deny access to credit if you default.

You can reapply for the Platinum card 30 days after the date of denial.  But an easier way to check is to log in to your Amex Account, and click the "Apply Now" button for the Platinum card.  If you see a banner message saying "Egartne1, you are pre-approved! Get a decision in as little as 30 seconds." you're good to go.  If the message says "Expanding your membership with us is easy" then you aren't yet pre-approved for the card.  You can still apply but your chances of approval are greater if you are pre-approved.

BTW, I'd suggest you pull your actual FICO 8 scores for the three credit bureaus instead of relying on Credit Karma.

[Anonymous]

Thank you for explaining those points to me. I see what you mean with regards to amex offers. It says im pre-approved for all of the cards except platinum, everyday preferred, and blue cash preferred. So i guess ill wait till i get approved for platinum.

Also, exciting news... i logged into my chase account today and guess what. Apparently i got approved for Sapphire Reserve with a $22,500 limit. So i guess they trust me a little more than i thought they did. And maybe opening an account with them helped a little bit. Either way im pretty pumped about it!

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:

Thank you for explaining those points to me. I see what you mean with regards to amex offers. It says im pre-approved for all of the cards except platinum, everyday preferred, and blue cash preferred. So i guess ill wait till i get approved for platinum.

Also, exciting news... i logged into my chase account today and guess what. Apparently i got approved for Sapphire Reserve with a $22,500 limit. So i guess they trust me a little more than i thought they did. And maybe opening an account with them helped a little bit. Either way im pretty pumped about it!

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Congrats on your CSR approval; its a bit unusual given your credit history but I suppose Chase wants to lock you in as a customer.  Perhaps its time to hit them up for either of the Freedom cards while you're still under 5/24.

The Amex pre-approvals will come in time; keep checking and eventually you'll see one for the Platinum.

[Anonymous]

It's probably really not all that unusual that he got approved, more that our perspective may be skewed as we mostly hear the narratives of how things don't work or whatever. Like back in the day the us bank cash+ couldn't be applied for online and it was widely assumed that you had to go in branch. I didn't read about anyone trying to apply on the phone...so I tried and was approved. My point is just because a lot of people who clearly are - let's say more engaging with their credit profiles than the average consumer, we probably get skewed perspectives due to skewed data sets of people being like "oh this didn't work for me" then everyone that person tells running around quoting it like gospel "you can only apply in branch!" Or "chase will close all of your accounts!" I had 2 established chase cards, then opened 3 in about 7 months along with 3 cards from other Banks (including one app I put in while I was waiting for a decision on my csp, my final chase approval (they denied my Amazon card app which was same day), but I never once had an AA. I'm not saying everyone should push the envelope hard, I'm saying people should use their best judgment about pushing that envelope and if something isn't clear rven after consulting with people online and the bank reps, read card's terms lol. And sometimes you will find yourself in a spot where the ramifications are unclear, you must weigh the risk:reward for yourself