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Citi Costco - 4506-T

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joltdude
Senior Contributor

Re: Citi Costco - 4506-T

And if Amex is any indication... they dont / or wont use the paystubs or care about the household income as well... so the op will likely lose out on that.. a 4506-T is like using a stale credit report with missing data.. and giving them more data than they need for a credit card decision .. Doubt they are gonna offer a 40-50K line for it....

 

-J

 

Message 11 of 26
arkane
Established Contributor

Re: Citi Costco - 4506-T


@sarge12 wrote:

@Anonymous wrote:
I'm going to play devil's advocate and say go ahead and submit it. You were interested enough in the card to apply and like me you shop Costco on the regs and stand to benefit from the Costco Visa. If you end up getting a lower limit then you hoped for and feel like the info from your 2017 return not accurately reflecting your financial picture was at fault, you can always go for a CLI later.

The reason I say submit is this (agree or not it's essentially true): granting the authorization won't give a lender any information about you that you haven't already provided - unless you fudged some numbers. Think about it, with the exception of knowing exactly where and exactly how much income you have reported instead of maybe a job title or employer's name and a ballpark figure income, what else didn't you already put on your initial application? Name, address, dob, SSN, income, mortgage or rent, total household income perhaps. We're talking granular details about information you already submitted. I agree that it feels invasive but also think it's not nearly as big a deal as if they say asked for all your current bank statements or medical and insurance records. Not saying the principle is wrong but that in the end I feel it's more of a redundant double check if what you stated as your financial profile than invasion of privacy. If you want the card go for it.

Name and SSN of spouse and children...charitable organizations maybe... Checking account number and routing number if refund or payment used these accounts. A tax return has much more info than I have ever put on a credit app, and who knows which employees of Citi will see this. Income verification can be done with a W2 or pay stub. Who might Citi sell this info to, described as "partners"? The 4506-T request even has a warning.

 

Caution: If the tax transcript is being mailed to a third party, ensure that you have filled in lines 6 through 9 before signing. Sign and date the form once you have filled in these lines. Completing these steps helps to protect your privacy. Once the IRS discloses your tax transcript to the third party listed on line 5, the IRS has no control over what the third party does with the information. If you would like to limit the third party’s authority to disclose your transcript information, you can specify this limitation in your written agreement with the third party


+9001

 

Look I get it, people fudge their incomes and you want to make sure they didn't exaggerate (too much). I'm perfectly fine with that, so I'd be ok with supplying W-2's and paystubs if asked. But there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to ask for my tax return. It contains a whole slew of extra information that is of absolutely zero relevance to my creditworthiness. This isn't a mortgage application for crying out loud, we're talking about a credit card here!

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Closed:


6/8/20:

Message 12 of 26
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Citi Costco - 4506-T

@sarge you got me on that one & I respectfully retract my previous statement.

Had been thinking only from perspective of a individual filing without dependents, which is extra stupid since that doesn't even describe my returns let alone most others here. I'll agree risk isn't worth it.
Message 13 of 26
CreditCuriosity
Moderator Emeritus

Re: Citi Costco - 4506-T

Whether a perosn agrees with it or not you are asking for unsecured debt and if you want to play game in this case with Citi you gotta go by their rules.. I understand people not wanting to provide 4506-t's as w-2 should do, but it is what it is.  I wish more lenders asked for proof of income by paychecks/w-2's, but that is just my personal opinion so people don't get overextended.  4506-t are i suppose the gold standing on showing the whole picture is why certain lenders want them.  Although many lenders dont require them and for those that don't want to provide them those are the lenders for you.  I am single so I have no dependents etc so I have no problem with filling out a form others I can understand their issues although lenders pretty much have 90% of what the 4506 already has on it through what you provide them or other sources.

Message 14 of 26
arkane
Established Contributor

Re: Citi Costco - 4506-T


@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous you got me on that one & I respectfully retract my previous statement.

Had been thinking only from perspective of a individual filing without dependents, which is extra stupid since that doesn't even describe my returns let alone most others here. I'll agree risk isn't worth it.

I'm single with no dependents but let's just say my 1065, 1099-B, 1099-DIV, and 1099-INT are none of the bank's business. Smiley Wink (no I do not include any of those as "income")

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6/8/20:

Message 15 of 26
sarge12
Senior Contributor

Re: Citi Costco - 4506-T


@CreditCuriosity wrote:

Whether a perosn agrees with it or not you are asking for unsecured debt and if you want to play game in this case with Citi you gotta go by their rules.. I understand people not wanting to provide 4506-t's as w-2 should do, but it is what it is.  I wish more lenders asked for proof of income by paychecks/w-2's, but that is just my personal opinion so people don't get overextended.  4506-t are i suppose the gold standing on showing the whole picture is why certain lenders want them.  Although many lenders dont require them and for those that don't want to provide them those are the lenders for you.  I am single so I have no dependents etc so I have no problem with filling out a form others I can understand their issues although lenders pretty much have 90% of what the 4506 already has on it through what you provide them or other sources.


The crazy thing is, it must be profile specific requests I have Citi Costco, Citi DC, AMEX BCE, CFU, Chase Amazon Prime, cap1 QS, State Farm, Wells Fargo, Discover IT, Barclaycard, TD Bank, 2 Credit unions cards, BOA, 2 rotating lines of credit attached to 2 checking accounts...works like overdraft but better. I have all these unsecured credit lines and not once has a 4506-T been requested. Also not once have I declined any card due to a 4506-T being requested.

TU fico08=812 07/16/23
EX fico08=809 07/16/23
EQ fico09=812 07/16/23
EX fico09=821 07/16/23
EQ fico bankcard08=832 07/16/23
TU Fico Bankcard 08=840 07/16/23
EQ NG1 fico=802 04/17/21
EQ Resilience index score=58 03/09/21
Unknown score from EX=784 used by Cap1 07/10/20
Message 16 of 26
CreditCuriosity
Moderator Emeritus

Re: Citi Costco - 4506-T


@sarge12 wrote:

@CreditCuriosity wrote:

Whether a perosn agrees with it or not you are asking for unsecured debt and if you want to play game in this case with Citi you gotta go by their rules.. I understand people not wanting to provide 4506-t's as w-2 should do, but it is what it is.  I wish more lenders asked for proof of income by paychecks/w-2's, but that is just my personal opinion so people don't get overextended.  4506-t are i suppose the gold standing on showing the whole picture is why certain lenders want them.  Although many lenders dont require them and for those that don't want to provide them those are the lenders for you.  I am single so I have no dependents etc so I have no problem with filling out a form others I can understand their issues although lenders pretty much have 90% of what the 4506 already has on it through what you provide them or other sources.


The crazy thing is, it must be profile specific requests I have Citi Costco, Citi DC, AMEX BCE, CFU, Chase Amazon Prime, cap1 QS, State Farm, Wells Fargo, Discover IT, Barclaycard, TD Bank, 2 Credit unions cards, BOA, 2 rotating lines of credit attached to 2 checking accounts...works like overdraft but better. I have all these unsecured credit lines and not once has a 4506-T been requested. Also not once have I declined any card due to a 4506-T being requested.


Something on certain peoples profiles caues the 4506-t request specifically with Citi in this case... Usually they have a feeling something isn't matching up.. As stated they have other sources than the 3 major CRA's such as early warning, ARS, IDA, etc, etc...  Only time I was asked for 4506 was with Amex and I have extreme exposure with them to income and i was fine providing it as stated i am single and dont mind sharing the stuff as 90-95% of the stuff you provide or they can get from other sources.

Message 17 of 26
sarge12
Senior Contributor

Re: Citi Costco - 4506-T

@CreditCuriosity....I too am single, but the mere presence of my information of my 401k savings of almost half a million dollars would preclude my ever submitting to a 4506-T. It might be paranoia, but the thoughts of someone using that info to try and hack that account is a nightmare. Besides that, I just have a problem with it on pricipal alone for something as close to useless as a credit card is to me.

TU fico08=812 07/16/23
EX fico08=809 07/16/23
EQ fico09=812 07/16/23
EX fico09=821 07/16/23
EQ fico bankcard08=832 07/16/23
TU Fico Bankcard 08=840 07/16/23
EQ NG1 fico=802 04/17/21
EQ Resilience index score=58 03/09/21
Unknown score from EX=784 used by Cap1 07/10/20
Message 18 of 26
UncleB
Credit Mentor

Re: Citi Costco - 4506-T

IMHO there's no 'right' or 'wrong' answer to this one. 

 

People on each side of this are usually firmly entrenched with their opinion and are unlikely to change their mind, and that's OK.  For some it's the principle, and for others it's a bit more technical.

 

For example, if there's a data breach and a dependent's information is compromised, who is liable?  One would hope it would be the issuer responsible for the breach, but it could also be argued that the applicant provided the information to begin with and shares responsibility (the dependent isn't a customer, after all).  Also, an ex-spouse's SS# is required to be on the tax return if alimony is paid... while some ex's might be understanding if there was a breach, some certainly would not... it could get interesting.

 

Some prefer to avoid the possibility of any of this and just say 'no' to the transcript.

 

What's objectively true is that issuers have the right to request the 4506-T, and equally we have the right to refuse to provide it, with the understanding that we (likely) won't be approved for the account or CLI, of course.

Message 19 of 26
sarge12
Senior Contributor

Re: Citi Costco - 4506-T


@UncleB wrote:

IMHO there's no 'right' or 'wrong' answer to this one. 

 

People on each side of this are usually firmly entrenched with their opinion and are unlikely to change their mind, and that's OK.  For some it's the principle, and for others it's a bit more technical.

 

For example, if there's a data breach and a dependent's information is compromised, who is liable?  One would hope it would be the issuer responsible for the breach, but it could also be argued that the applicant provided the information to begin with and shares responsibility (the dependent isn't a customer, after all).  Also, an ex-spouse's SS# is required to be on the tax return if alimony is paid... while some ex's might be understanding if there was a breach, some certainly would not... it could get interesting.

 

Some prefer to avoid the possibility of any of this and just say 'no' to the transcript.

 

What's objectively true is that issuers have the right to request the 4506-T, and equally we have the right to refuse to provide it, with the understanding that we (likely) won't be approved for the account or CLI, of course.


I agree completely....if the applicant is comfortable with surrendering all the data that is on a tax return to whichever financial institution, then I am not going to critisize their decision. I know I never will for a credit card, but the Target, Equifax and many other recent data breaches has me admittedly paranoid about voluntarily surrendering data that should not be needed just to verify income. What I don't know is the following...Is this data entered into their mainframes for any employee to access?...is it sold to what they refer to as partners?...Why is a W2 form and pay stub not sufficient for income verification?...And the biggie for me, I recieve income from my 401k which is on the associated 1099 forms which includes account numbers. No matter how unlikely, could this be used by a hacker to steal the 1/2 million dollars in that account? Probably not, but the fact that it is a question for me to even ask means the value of a credit card is simply not worth the risk. If I had dependant children, giving a credit card issuer a document with a ss# that someone might use for identity theft before they are even ready to establish their own credit profile would also be a bridge too far for me. The practice of CC issuers requesting a 4506-T is still too recent for the possible future pitfals and abuses of this voluntary surrender of this data to be fully known, and I do not wish to be on a future newscast regretting having given some Bernie Madoff charachter the data he needed to lead me to financial ruin.

TU fico08=812 07/16/23
EX fico08=809 07/16/23
EQ fico09=812 07/16/23
EX fico09=821 07/16/23
EQ fico bankcard08=832 07/16/23
TU Fico Bankcard 08=840 07/16/23
EQ NG1 fico=802 04/17/21
EQ Resilience index score=58 03/09/21
Unknown score from EX=784 used by Cap1 07/10/20
Message 20 of 26
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