@Brian_Earl_Spilner wrote:Just looked at your cards. Can your income support those limits? Maybe they think they won't get any spend or that you might overextend yourself
I wondered if my high total credit limits concerned them, but yes, my income easily supports those limits. My total credit limits across all cards are at less than 1.5x my annual gross income, much less than some of our other members who have credit lines many multiple times income. Allowing for household income, I'm closer to 1x income and our debts are relatively low.
But maybe they are disappointed I haven't given them more spend relative to my income. I thought the Platinum was great for the low APR but it hasn't been a card I want to put spend on due to no rewards. It's more of a pocket-and-hold card. They may have noted that I'm not using it, so why give me more!?! 
@AllZero wrote:That is unfortunate about your denial.
I think it's a mixture. Perhaps 1) and some others. As you surmised, CLI used to be 8K and now 4K.
Another possibility is your profile is just too good. Why the algorithms would deny you I do not know.
Maybe allow some time to pass and try again?
Thanks @AllZero ! Yes, gardening is in my future. And in time, I imagine they will open up more. I'm just trying to see if others had insights into the approval process as I hate to waste hard pulls when I don't need to! I'd like to make sure when I app again that there is little chance of a denial!
@Anonymous wrote:
I think those reasons are bunk. I think the 7 accounts in 12 months played a part, I think the current climate is playing a part, and the fact that you already have a lot of existing credit is playing a part. Now if you were to take one of the 3 out of the equation, I bet you wouldn’t of had a problem. But with all 3? That’s all I can imagine.
Definitely appreciate you sharing and I definitely hate to see that happen to you. I think this climate has changed a lot of perspectives and therefore we must shift our expectations.
Thanks @Anonymous ! I agree, those are probably just generic reasons. I was honestly surprised they didn't specifically mention the new accounts! I've had three new account approvals since April but also two denials, so it's probably a good time for most of us to lay low. The data points I've been reading about for the past year appear to have changed drastically since covid.
@Anonymous wrote:I'm a bit of a noob, but I can't see anything in your post other than the amount of credit that you already have ($510K) being the reason for them capping you at a maximum of $18.5K. I don't think you need to dig through the "Key Factors that adversely affected your NFCU Credit Score" because, as you noted, your score is quite high. The factors listed probably had marginal impact and they're just listing whatever is responsible for the 23 point difference.
You say that you're puzzled that you limit could "only" be $18.5K "given the approval of many others for a second credit card at an additional $25K after less than seven months!" but I'm guessing those people don't have over half a million dollars in open tradelines. You have $18.5K of credit with NFCU, but you've noted in your post that you've never actually swiped the card. Maybe you could try product changing the Platinum to something you will use more regularly.
Denials are always super frustrating, but hang in there. Good luck!
Welcome to My Fico Forums, @Anonymous, and thanks for the comments and kind words.
As for my building to $510K, it's really relative to a lot of factors including income, credit score, debts, credit history (depth), and many others. Some of our members are well in excess of my limits, many are actually over $1 Million!! I'm a minor player! 
As I posted upthread, those high limits are less than 1.5x my annual individual income, so much less relatively than some other members.
I specifically wanted the Platinum card so I don't want to product change it. While I don't expect to "NEED" to ever float a purchase, I like having a couple of perpetually-low APR cards for such a purpose. (My Navy FCU Platinum currently has an awesome 5.99% APR.) I didn't really want some of their other cards so much because they duplicated cards I already had. If anything, my dilemna is that I applied to Navy AFTER I had a bunch of other great credit cards instead of before! For that matter, even the More Rewards card duplicates my other cards, but it was to be one I could build more payment history, grab a good SUB, and combine that limit with other cards down the road. My objective was to eventually app for the Flagship Rewards card as my 3rd card, and to work towards getting maximum $80K exposure with Navy, probably on two cards. And I will get there; it's just going to take a little more time and relationship grooming than I expected! I suppose to build more "payment history and activity" that I will just forego some minor rewards and put some spend on the Platinum while I let my new accounts and inquiries age off. Sometimes, forfeiting some rewards yields results in a different credit objective!
Your TCL has nothing to do with the denial. Nor do the new accounts.
The only thing you lack is time with them. They gave me the cold shoulder for the first year or so as well.
If you get the opportunity to do another BT with them. Let it ride for the entire 12 months.
The Covid pandemic no doubt has had negative affects on apping.
I received the same rejection reason nearly $50k less exposure than what I have with them now.
If no BT offer. Drop a small reoccurring charge on it monthly.
The CLs will come. For some of us, it just takes a little longer. It doesn't have to be a massive amount. $5 a month should do it.
Sorry for your denial. But it's only 1 HP. You have an endless supply of them.😁
And their affect on your credit is extremely minimal.
Over the course of my short journey. What I've learned to be the most important aspect of successful apping is simply timing.
This credit thing doesn't work the way you'd expect it to. Abnormally, it's just the opposite.😉
@Gmood1 wrote:Your TCL has nothing to do with the denial. Nor do the new accounts.
The only thing you lack is time with them. They gave me the cold shoulder for the first year or so as well.
If you get the opportunity to do another BT with them. Let it ride for the entire 12 months.
The Covid pandemic no doubt has had negative affects on apping.
I received the same rejection reason nearly $50k less exposure than what I have with them now.
If no BT offer. Drop a small reoccurring charge on it monthly.
The CLs will come. For some of us, it just takes a little longer. It doesn't have to be a massive amount. $5 a month should do it.
Sorry for your denial. But it's only 1 HP. You have an endless supply of them.😁
And their affect on your credit is extremely minimal.
Over the course of my short journey. What I've learned to be the most important aspect of successful apping is simply timing.
This credit thing doesn't work the way you'd expect it to. Abnormally, it's just the opposite.😉
This ^^^ exactly. 
The first time I went for a CLI on my Platinum MasterCard was back when there was still a 'max' button, which I used. I got a bump, but I also got a letter that I was at the 'max unsecured credit limit'.
A while later, they gave me an auto-CLI of $4k, bringing my credit line to $24k, which is super-generous for my resources. Then two and a half years later, I went for a GoRewards (mostly for the bonus) and it was approved for $20.2k. I've never asked for any additional CLIs.
While COVID might have changed some things, I suspect with a little more time they'll loosen their purse strings for you regardless.
@UncleB wrote:
@Gmood1 wrote:Your TCL has nothing to do with the denial. Nor do the new accounts.
The only thing you lack is time with them. They gave me the cold shoulder for the first year or so as well.
If you get the opportunity to do another BT with them. Let it ride for the entire 12 months.
The Covid pandemic no doubt has had negative affects on apping.
I received the same rejection reason nearly $50k less exposure than what I have with them now.
If no BT offer. Drop a small reoccurring charge on it monthly.
The CLs will come. For some of us, it just takes a little longer. It doesn't have to be a massive amount. $5 a month should do it.
Sorry for your denial. But it's only 1 HP. You have an endless supply of them.😁
And their affect on your credit is extremely minimal.
Over the course of my short journey. What I've learned to be the most important aspect of successful apping is simply timing.
This credit thing doesn't work the way you'd expect it to. Abnormally, it's just the opposite.😉
This ^^^ exactly.
The first time I went for a CLI on my Platinum MasterCard was back when there was still a 'max' button, which I used. I got a bump, but I also got a letter that I was at the 'max unsecured credit limit'.
A while later, they gave me an auto-CLI of $4k, bringing my credit line to $24k, which is super-generous for my resources. Then two and a half years later, I went for a GoRewards (mostly for the bonus) and it was approved for $20.2k. I've never asked for any additional CLIs.
While COVID might have changed some things, I suspect with a little more time they'll loosen their purse strings for you regardless.
Thanks for the feedback @Gmood1 and @UncleB! I knew Navy needed a little time but I just thought six months was normally when they started to feel much more comfortable. I'm at nine months as a member and got denied, so just didn't see that coming. I probably won't even app again at 12 months with them as I have more new accounts to age off. I may just chill until next spring before I even think of prodding them again for more. Perhaps by then the economy will be in better shape as well. And I'll continue to put some regular smaller charges on it and pay off, just to show good faith and responsibility.
I thought paying off the BT in a shorter period than alloted would count in my favor and impress them. It seems it didn't really matter, although they did give me the typically (at the time) maximum $8K CLI in April.
Yes, sometimes lenders don't react like we might expect, even quite differently from one profile to another! They can be difficult to read.
@Aim_High wrote:I applied last week for NFCU's More Rewards AMEX and was denied, but waited until I got the rejection letter so that I could post more helpful data points. I'm definitely shocked and perplexed by this denial, perhaps even more so after getting the letter! I'm posting for the benefit of others but also asking for feedback or suggestions. I called Navy customer service and the rep said to wait until after I got the denial letter if I wanted to recon. I doubt it would be useful, but there is a snail mail address I can write to. Opinions on whether a recon would yield results?
For framework, I applied for more new cards last year than I ever have with decades of credit, so I had 7 new accounts in past 12 months. However, one of those was just an AU card and another one I closed immediately after opening. Two more will age over 12 months in August. There was an additional new account opened five days before the Navy application, but it should not have reported yet to the CRB. So yes, it's a lot, but much less than some others have had. I had a similar experience in May with an AMEX rejection, but I thought Navy FCU was much more easy about new accounts than AMEX. So my first thought about the rejection expected it to be solely focused on too many new accounts. It didn't directly mention new accounts, but interestingly, there were other factors.
By the way, for four months straight, my TU FICO reported on NFCU's website has been a perfect 850. Until today, I had never seen my Navy Federal "internal score" that I have seen mentioned.
My history with Navy FCU: I qualified for membership due to my own active-duty military service. I opened checking and savings in Oct 19 so 9 months ago, moderately funded them ($1K - $2K) and let them age for 30 days. No other loans or products. Approved for Platinum card in Nov 19 ($10K SL at lowest APR.) I didn't need the BT offer but I thought that to build payment history I would take advantage by moving $9800 (98% utilization) from other cards and paying it off quickly over three months. It didn't cost me anything as Navy is always $0 BT fee and the offer was 0% for 12 months. I've never swiped the Platinum card or had other balances since it doesn't earn rewards, but I wanted it since it had such a low APR for payment flexibility if I ever wanted that. I haven't used my Navy banking accounts much but they've had $19K parked there most of the last six months so they've had much more than a token deposit. When my Platinum card was about 4.5 months old (April), I asked for CLI and approved for $8K more (now $18K), and they also gave me another $500 last month when I clicked on the CLI request. (CL is now $18.5K) So I asked for a CLI later than many My Fico members and also waited until my credit card was over 7 months old before asking for a second card.
Main rejection reason on front of letter, which I've seen before was "You're reached Navy Federal's Maximum Unsecured Credit Limit." I am puzzled how my limit could only be $18.5K on one card with my profile and given the approval of many others for a second credit card at an additional $25K after less than seven months! I've seen people get this denial on a CLI but then get approved for a new card also! And often with much thinner files or lower credit scores.
In the denial letter, Navy reported my internal score at 427 on a scale of 100 to 450. To me, that would sound like a very high score?!?
"Key Factors that adversely affected your NFCU Credit Score:"
- Number of inquiries on Credit Bureau Report. Well, yeah. But they pull TU, and on that CRB I only had three inquiries, and two of them were from NAVY (my Platinum card and the CLI!) Now, if they had checked my EX file, they would have seen many more.
- Monthly Payments on Revolving Accounts reported last 12 months.
HUH?!? The (ONLY) time I've rolled over a balance from month-to-month was when I did the BT offer with Navy and paid it off much more quickly than necessary!! I've had other four-figure balances on other cards and always paid them in full! Do they not want me to allow anything to post??
- Not enough Balance Decreases on Installment Loans last 12 months. Well, I had a auto loan open within the last 12 months and I actually was paying hundreds of dollars a month extra and paid it off years in advance, so this is totally bunk. Also, my only other installment loan is my mortgage. I've paid on time on it and last year I paid at least an extra $25K towards the principal, but I admit I haven't done that in the past six months. I didn't think it mattered that much. Apparently it does. My mortgage loan is paid about 33% down from original balance.
- Number of Balance Decreases on Non-Mortgage accounts in last 3 months. See above. All of my balances were paid in full except for that one Navy FCU balance transfer that I paid off way early. Certainly they aren't penalizing me for accepting a BT offer and paying it back? (By the way, I always made a point to keep more funds in banking with Navy than I owed to them, demonstating an ability to pay so-as not to set off any alarms.)
Theories and observations:
Maybe this situation isn't a surprise to anyone else, but Navy has behaved differently than I have expected in many ways. They are apparently much more conservative than their reputation on My Fico. Here are my guesses as to why I was denied, but it could be any combination of factors.
(1) Coronavirus and more conservative underwriting? I know they've lowered normal CLIs from $8K to $4K recently and other lenders have been tightening up approvals.
(2) Those new accounts as quoted, although I imagine as with my AMEX that other My Fico members may have been approved for a new card with at least seven new accounts in 12 months?? And oddly enough, my letter didn't directly mention new accounts as much as inquiries and balances posted.
(3) Navy is apparently MUCH more sensitive to Debt-to-Income than I thought. My DTI on my individual income and just a mortgage payment is less than 7.5% of gross monthly and about 6% of household. So why would they even mention that I had not paid down enough of my installment debt early?
(4) It is possible that Navy didn't like my running up a 98% utilization on my Platinum, even if I did pay it off quickly. I was trying to demonstate ability to repay and to justify a larger credit limit since the $10K approval was one of my lowest in recent years.
(5) Balance decreases on other accounts: I had back-to-back $5K balances on my AOD Visa card, but the first was paid down and then I charged additionally. It may have looked like a large balance not being paid. In addition, my CSR balance increased due to the $450 (with adjustment) AF posting and a few other odds and ends.
(6) I wonder if Navy would be more generous if I put more deposit and spend through my checking account?
(7) I wonder if Navy would be more generous if I used and repaid some charges monthly on my Platinum card? I've never seen data points on usage of existing cards with Navy (unlike Capital One and Goldman Sachs Apple, which are both known to need regular swiping to get an increase) but maybe that was a factor with Navy?
(8) I wonder if Navy would be more generous if I had higher balances in deposits or other loan products?
(9) I wonder if Navy won't be more generous until I've been a member for over a year .... or two .... or five???
Feedback appreciated, but maybe Navy is not to be understood.
Wow, that has to be the highest internal score ive seen so far here on myFico. As always, your write up was great and really cant be said enough about your contributions.
Im a different kinda guy. Too many people read into all the reasons for denial and search for the why why why. I just go with the flow and if you get maximum credit spiel it only means right now. For all you know in a week your limit has changed. Thats why i pester constantly with no regards for outcome since i know it will eventually come. Ive burned more hpswith Navy than most people do on entire lenders. Did it stink getting one with nothing to show for it. Sure. But in the end, i achieved a $25k credit card and never even made that much ! Navy is more about persistence than instsnt gratification imho. Perseverance will carry you further than anything else.
Its funny to see people pulling off instant 25k approvals with nary a sweat while others dont but i find it more satisfying to work upwards towards one but thats just me. You'll get there for sure @Aim_High . Head up
@AverageJoesCredit wrote:
@Aim_High wrote:I applied last week for NFCU's More Rewards AMEX and was denied ...
Navy reported my internal score at 427 on a scale of 100 to 450.
To me, that would sound like a very high score?!?
Wow, that has to be the highest internal score ive seen so far here on myFico. As always, your write up was great and really cant be said enough about your contributions.
Im a different kinda guy. Too many people read into all the reasons for denial and search for the why why why. I just go with the flow and if you get maximum credit spiel it only means right now. For all you know in a week your limit has changed. Thats why i pester constantly with no regards for outcome since i know it will eventually come. Ive burned more hpswith Navy than most people do on entire lenders. Did it stink getting one with nothing to show for it. Sure. But in the end, i achieved a $25k credit card and never even made that much ! Navy is more about persistence than instsnt gratification imho. Perseverance will carry you further than anything else.
Its funny to see people pulling off instant 25k approvals with nary a sweat while others dont but i find it more satisfying to work upwards towards one but thats just me. You'll get there for sure @Aim_High . Head up
Thanks @AverageJoesCredit! Yes, it does seem contradictory to quote that high internal score and then deny the card!! Persistence is the key for sure and I will persist! Just going to sit back and let everything age now before I approach them again. I don't want to seem desperate and maybe when the economy strengthens they will loosen up. Thanks for the encouragement!
