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AA massive shutdown

Loquat
Moderator Emeritus

Re: AA massive shutdown


@FortifiedHM wrote:

Well you haven't heard from me yet, Smiley Very Happy.

 

Sure, creating an AA account using tricks and in your pets name is just too abusive (not saying this is the only cause, or it is even related to these shutdowns, nobody has concrete info). But how can AA/Citi allow this? don't they check SSN or ITN?

 

Truth is, if there is a loophole, someone will abuse it. They really need to take a look at their systems and rewrote the code so these abuse prevention are either stated in T&C, or coded into application process.


@FortifiedHM I agree with you.  The same feeling I had when Amex did what they did to those who were abusing the referral link.  With the technology that is available today, they could have easily prevented the self referrals from happening.  

 

And I'll also say, as I've said before, while I'm not for folks abusing the system I will also say that these lenders are without clean hands themselves.  Their anger about such "abusive" practices is probably because consumers tend to find ways to beat them at their own shady games that they play.  If their RAT didn't think folks were going to game the referral system, buy gift cards at the grocery stores while using EDP and Amex Gold then they're idiots and deserve what they get.  Just my 2¢.

Message 11 of 32
FortifiedHM
Valued Contributor

Re: AA massive shutdown

I think I will keep my AAPS, seeing some fav airports are frequently on their reduced mileage award lists.

ᑭ⍶ndeᲠi८ ѠαԼԼεէ : ᐰviⲁէⵙr ᖇ, Ꮴⅇηtџrⅇ ✖ ⍟८ſſ
⛪ᙪ൦ſΛ ८८☕ Λlti-ၺ ✈☕թroթⅇl ✈☕⸿ⵢᖇ ⍟Ԑժ ⍟८ſ ┊Ҩⵢ ☏८ſⴑ ⛽ෲթƧ-βiz ⛽iէ | ८✙ ┊❡olδ┊ↇᏨ ☕▲B ⍟Ⲙilⅇⴑթ ⛪
⸨ꜷ ᐰmzn ᐰ√ ☏⸿i⸿┊⸿iⴑ ⚕ᙪᙪթ⍟wſ -√ ⚕ᙪᙪ८⸩
Message 12 of 32
CreditCuriosity
Moderator Emeritus

Re: AA massive shutdown


@Loquat wrote:

@FortifiedHM wrote:

Well you haven't heard from me yet, Smiley Very Happy.

 

Sure, creating an AA account using tricks and in your pets name is just too abusive (not saying this is the only cause, or it is even related to these shutdowns, nobody has concrete info). But how can AA/Citi allow this? don't they check SSN or ITN?

 

Truth is, if there is a loophole, someone will abuse it. They really need to take a look at their systems and rewrote the code so these abuse prevention are either stated in T&C, or coded into application process.


@FortifiedHM I agree with you.  The same feeling I had when Amex did what they did to those who were abusing the referral link.  With the technology that is available today, they could have easily prevented the self referrals from happening.  

 

And I'll also say, as I've said before, while I'm not for folks abusing the system I will also say that these lenders are without clean hands themselves.  Their anger about such "abusive" practices is probably because consumers tend to find ways to beat them at their own shady games that they play.  If their RAT didn't think folks were going to game the referral system, buy gift cards at the grocery stores while using EDP and Amex Gold then they're idiots and deserve what they get.  Just my 2¢.


I agree with you all, but as a programmer you never can possibly think up every little scheme or situation of person can think up it is pretty much impossible.  Users in the 20 years I have wrote software do things that has never crossed your mind nor the QA teams mind, etc.. yet they find someway to get around something or break something.  Granted Amex self referrals is one of the easier ones that should of been addressed as they certainly knew it was being abused before they busted the whip on people.  That would of been a VERY easy fix.  This was a bad abusal on AA as well... 

Message 13 of 32
Loquat
Moderator Emeritus

Re: AA massive shutdown

@FortifiedHM I also have the AAdvantage Executive that we'll keep for the Admirals Club access.  Although I must say that when that fee rolls around and if they again offer nothing it's going to be a hard for me to justify keeping it as the Admirals Club is decent but I don't know if it's $450 per year decent.  Maybe if I can get a few more authorized users to chip in on the annual fee and in turn they get access to the Admirals Club then that's a possibility but I don't have to make such decision until June.

 

Maybe by then Citi will have added some benefits back to their card that makes paying the annual fee worth it.  Or better yet, it'd be nice if they ink American Airlines as a Citi transfer partner (wishful thinking I know).

Message 14 of 32
FortifiedHM
Valued Contributor

Re: AA massive shutdown


@CreditCuriosity wrote:

@Loquat wrote:

@FortifiedHM wrote:

Well you haven't heard from me yet, Smiley Very Happy.

 

Sure, creating an AA account using tricks and in your pets name is just too abusive (not saying this is the only cause, or it is even related to these shutdowns, nobody has concrete info). But how can AA/Citi allow this? don't they check SSN or ITN?

 

Truth is, if there is a loophole, someone will abuse it. They really need to take a look at their systems and rewrote the code so these abuse prevention are either stated in T&C, or coded into application process.


@FortifiedHM I agree with you.  The same feeling I had when Amex did what they did to those who were abusing the referral link.  With the technology that is available today, they could have easily prevented the self referrals from happening.  

 

And I'll also say, as I've said before, while I'm not for folks abusing the system I will also say that these lenders are without clean hands themselves.  Their anger about such "abusive" practices is probably because consumers tend to find ways to beat them at their own shady games that they play.  If their RAT didn't think folks were going to game the referral system, buy gift cards at the grocery stores while using EDP and Amex Gold then they're idiots and deserve what they get.  Just my 2¢.


I agree with you all, but as a programmer you never can possibly think up every little scheme or situation of person can think up it is pretty much impossible.  Users in the 20 years I have wrote software do things that has never crossed your mind nor the QA teams mind, etc.. yet they find someway to get around something or break something.  Granted Amex self referrals is one of the easier ones that should of been addressed as they certainly knew it was being abused before they busted the whip on people.  That would of been a VERY easy fix.  This was a bad abusal on AA as well... 


Only thing I can summerize from these posts, is we are all too OLD!

ᑭ⍶ndeᲠi८ ѠαԼԼεէ : ᐰviⲁէⵙr ᖇ, Ꮴⅇηtџrⅇ ✖ ⍟८ſſ
⛪ᙪ൦ſΛ ८८☕ Λlti-ၺ ✈☕թroթⅇl ✈☕⸿ⵢᖇ ⍟Ԑժ ⍟८ſ ┊Ҩⵢ ☏८ſⴑ ⛽ෲթƧ-βiz ⛽iէ | ८✙ ┊❡olδ┊ↇᏨ ☕▲B ⍟Ⲙilⅇⴑթ ⛪
⸨ꜷ ᐰmzn ᐰ√ ☏⸿i⸿┊⸿iⴑ ⚕ᙪᙪթ⍟wſ -√ ⚕ᙪᙪ८⸩
Message 15 of 32
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: AA massive shutdown


@FortifiedHM wrote:

Well you haven't heard from me yet, Smiley Very Happy.

 

Sure, creating an AA account using tricks and in your pets name is just too abusive (not saying this is the only cause, or it is even related to these shutdowns, nobody has concrete info). But how can AA/Citi allow this? don't they check SSN or ITN?

 

Truth is, if there is a loophole, someone will abuse it. They really need to take a look at their systems and rewrote the code so these abuse prevention are either stated in T&C, or coded into application process.


Why should the credit card issuer have to make T&C changes because of abuse? Shut down the cards and bar them from ever having another card. That's the only way it will ever stop. There is no need for T&C to spell this stuff out. Let people find out the hard way. 

Message 16 of 32
Loquat
Moderator Emeritus

Re: AA massive shutdown

@CreditCuriosity I agree with you that there will also be those who will find a new way to do something that hasn't been thought of.  It's just that with these issues as self referrals, those seem like really, really easy loopholes to fix.  And with the amount of money I'm sure these companies are spending on IT talent, you'd think the easier loops should have never existed.  

 

The reason I'm a bit harder towards these easy loopholes is because these lenders have made it impossible for one to do a balance transfer from one of their products to another.  I would assume that the coding for that is probably a bit more intense than what would be required for them to stop someone from sending an email referral link to themselves.  Or at the very least have something that matches a home address, SSN, DOB, or anything that could cause the system to take a pause as flag it for not being "proper".  

 

I dunno, maybe I'm overthinking it or maybe this is a datapoint of why and RN shouldn't play armchair IT guy.  Who knows.  I just feel like I can't be that far off on referrals being an easy fix. 

Message 17 of 32
CreditSweeper
Established Contributor

Re: AA massive shutdown


@Loquat wrote:

@CreditCuriosity I agree with you that there will also be those who will find a new way to do something that hasn't been thought of.  It's just that with these issues as self referrals, those seem like really, really easy loopholes to fix.  And with the amount of money I'm sure these companies are spending on IT talent, you'd think the easier loops should have never existed.  

 

The reason I'm a bit harder towards these easy loopholes is because these lenders have made it impossible for one to do a balance transfer from one of their products to another.  I would assume that the coding for that is probably a bit more intense than what would be required for them to stop someone from sending an email referral link to themselves.  Or at the very least have something that matches a home address, SSN, DOB, or anything that could cause the system to take a pause as flag it for not being "proper".  

 

I dunno, maybe I'm overthinking it or maybe this is a datapoint of why and RN shouldn't play armchair IT guy.  Who knows.  I just feel like I can't be that far off on referrals being an easy fix. 


I'd think dev cost for programming comes into play too. Sure, you're going to put a lot of money into developing a program that identifies internal balance transfers. Are you going to want to put that same cost into a program designed to give away something for free?

Personal Credit: AMEX: Platinum, Gold, Green, Blue Cash Preferred | PNC: Cash Rewards, Points | BOA: Cash Rewards | NFCU: Flagship Rewards, Cash Rewards, CLOC | PSECU: Founders | BB&T: Spectrum Cash Rewards | CapOne: Quicksilver | Discover: IT Chrome, IT | Synchrony: PayPal 2%, PayPal Credit | Barclays: Uber | PenFed: Power Cash Rewards, Platinum Rewards | Alliant: Visa Signature | Goldman Sachs: Apple Card | BBVA: Clear Points | FNBO: Rewards
Store Cards: Target, Macy’s
Business Credit: AMEX: Delta Gold, Amazon Prime, Simply Cash Plus | PNC: Visa Business | Synchrony: Lowes
Message 18 of 32
CreditCuriosity
Moderator Emeritus

Re: AA massive shutdown

Oh you are right that is a very easy fix to check against a Social or whatever else and nip it in the butt very quickly. I have worked for chase, wells and credit one in their cc area as a programmer for different things and this isn’t a hard fix at all you nailed it a very easy fix that was just ignored...
Message 19 of 32
Loquat
Moderator Emeritus

Re: AA massive shutdown


@CreditSweeper wrote:

@Loquat wrote:

@CreditCuriosity I agree with you that there will also be those who will find a new way to do something that hasn't been thought of.  It's just that with these issues as self referrals, those seem like really, really easy loopholes to fix.  And with the amount of money I'm sure these companies are spending on IT talent, you'd think the easier loops should have never existed.  

 

The reason I'm a bit harder towards these easy loopholes is because these lenders have made it impossible for one to do a balance transfer from one of their products to another.  I would assume that the coding for that is probably a bit more intense than what would be required for them to stop someone from sending an email referral link to themselves.  Or at the very least have something that matches a home address, SSN, DOB, or anything that could cause the system to take a pause as flag it for not being "proper".  

 

I dunno, maybe I'm overthinking it or maybe this is a datapoint of why and RN shouldn't play armchair IT guy.  Who knows.  I just feel like I can't be that far off on referrals being an easy fix. 


I'd think dev cost for programming comes into play too. Sure, you're going to put a lot of money into developing a program that identifies internal balance transfers. Are you going to want to put that same cost into a program designed to give away something for free?


@CreditSweeper It ain't free if folks are busing it and it's costing you not only the sub that you're paying them for the new approval but also giving that same person an additional $200-300 (or more depending on how you use the points) for referring themselves.  So the person who was meant to get say $1000 from a Platinum approval is now getting at the very least $200 additional (more depending on the currency gained from the referral) by simplying replying to a email that they sent themselves.  

 

Yea, I'd say the cost associated with creating code to stop that would be well spent considering how many folks were/are doing it.  Again, just my 2¢.

Message 20 of 32
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