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AMEX feeling the heat

jfriend33
Senior Contributor

Re: AMEX feeling the heat


@BronzeTrader wrote:

The bonus game has to stop or at least slow down. Chase CSR is a good example. Now Chase comes out swinging the Chase Amazon Prime and will certainly take over from SyncB. This is very big and comes with minimal cost. 

 

We know the CCC can't survive by giving out 3% to 5% on a consistent basis. Of course some of us pay 20% interest, but there is some limit.

 


I don't think thats a valid statement at all.  The amount of money made makes bonuses look like chump change.  Swipe fees, when they dont pay your points right away and hold them captive for 30,60, or 365 days (like sams club).  Its all speculation really.  If it has to stop then why are there so many offers out for checking accounts????

 

Sync may take a loss....but think of all the people that use the no interest feature on amazon. I have only used it once, but I just don't get the obsession with the chase amazon card. Its not groundbreaking whatsoever.  Considering we have the ability to get amazon cards from places that are under a quarterly bonus or even a card has amazon as its special or quarterly.......

EQ 730, TU 730, EX 720. INQs EQ-1, TU-9, EX-7 AAOA 4yrs Util 6% Inspiration: Themanwhocan's Cash Back Charts
Message 21 of 59
BronzeTrader
Valued Contributor

Re: AMEX feeling the heat


@jfriend33 wrote:

@BronzeTrader wrote:

The bonus game has to stop or at least slow down. Chase CSR is a good example. Now Chase comes out swinging the Chase Amazon Prime and will certainly take over from SyncB. This is very big and comes with minimal cost. 

 

We know the CCC can't survive by giving out 3% to 5% on a consistent basis. Of course some of us pay 20% interest, but there is some limit.

 


I don't think thats a valid statement at all.  The amount of money made makes bonuses look like chump change.  Swipe fees, when they dont pay your points right away and hold them captive for 30,60, or 365 days (like sams club).  Its all speculation really.  If it has to stop then why are there so many offers out for checking accounts????

 

Sync may take a loss....but think of all the people that use the no interest feature on amazon. I have only used it once, but I just don't get the obsession with the chase amazon card. Its not groundbreaking whatsoever.  Considering we have the ability to get amazon cards from places that are under a quarterly bonus or even a card has amazon as its special or quarterly.......


You read the articles on Chase losing big $$ the past quarter? This is why Chase is cutting back the CSR bonus. Ritz free night is cut too. Who knows what else will be cut? And the two Fairmont free nights are gone too. 

 

In the CSR case, the money made through card swipe or balance interest was not enough to cover the perks Chase gave up. How much business the perks bring? A big question mark. A lot of the card holders won't want to keep the CSR, Ritz and other expensive CCs when AFs knock on the door. 

 

A lot of the CSR card holders should not even have this card, or plan to keep it. They are all after the LARGEST bonus ever. When the bonus is sucked out, the card is half dead. It is a fact. 

Message 22 of 59
jfriend33
Senior Contributor

Re: AMEX feeling the heat


@BronzeTrader wrote:

@jfriend33 wrote:

@BronzeTrader wrote:

The bonus game has to stop or at least slow down. Chase CSR is a good example. Now Chase comes out swinging the Chase Amazon Prime and will certainly take over from SyncB. This is very big and comes with minimal cost. 

 

We know the CCC can't survive by giving out 3% to 5% on a consistent basis. Of course some of us pay 20% interest, but there is some limit.

 


I don't think thats a valid statement at all.  The amount of money made makes bonuses look like chump change.  Swipe fees, when they dont pay your points right away and hold them captive for 30,60, or 365 days (like sams club).  Its all speculation really.  If it has to stop then why are there so many offers out for checking accounts????

 

Sync may take a loss....but think of all the people that use the no interest feature on amazon. I have only used it once, but I just don't get the obsession with the chase amazon card. Its not groundbreaking whatsoever.  Considering we have the ability to get amazon cards from places that are under a quarterly bonus or even a card has amazon as its special or quarterly.......


You read the articles on Chase losing big $$ the past quarter? This is why Chase is cutting back the CSR bonus. Ritz free night is cut too. Who knows what else will be cut? And the two Fairmont free nights are gone too. 

 

In the CSR case, the money made through card swipe or balance interest was not enough to cover the perks Chase gave up. How much business the perks bring? A big question mark. A lot of the card holders won't want to keep the CSR, Ritz and other expensive CCs when AFs knock on the door. 

 

A lot of the CSR card holders should not even have this card, or plan to keep it. They are all after the LARGEST bonus ever. When the bonus is sucked out, the card is half dead. It is a fact. 


They did lose a little. But there strategy will pay off.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/churning/comments/5oucdq/the_economics_of_churning_who_pays_for_the_rewards...

EQ 730, TU 730, EX 720. INQs EQ-1, TU-9, EX-7 AAOA 4yrs Util 6% Inspiration: Themanwhocan's Cash Back Charts
Message 23 of 59
BronzeTrader
Valued Contributor

Re: AMEX feeling the heat


@jfriend33 wrote:

@BronzeTrader wrote:

@jfriend33 wrote:

@BronzeTrader wrote:

The bonus game has to stop or at least slow down. Chase CSR is a good example. Now Chase comes out swinging the Chase Amazon Prime and will certainly take over from SyncB. This is very big and comes with minimal cost. 

 

We know the CCC can't survive by giving out 3% to 5% on a consistent basis. Of course some of us pay 20% interest, but there is some limit.

 


I don't think thats a valid statement at all.  The amount of money made makes bonuses look like chump change.  Swipe fees, when they dont pay your points right away and hold them captive for 30,60, or 365 days (like sams club).  Its all speculation really.  If it has to stop then why are there so many offers out for checking accounts????

 

Sync may take a loss....but think of all the people that use the no interest feature on amazon. I have only used it once, but I just don't get the obsession with the chase amazon card. Its not groundbreaking whatsoever.  Considering we have the ability to get amazon cards from places that are under a quarterly bonus or even a card has amazon as its special or quarterly.......


You read the articles on Chase losing big $$ the past quarter? This is why Chase is cutting back the CSR bonus. Ritz free night is cut too. Who knows what else will be cut? And the two Fairmont free nights are gone too. 

 

In the CSR case, the money made through card swipe or balance interest was not enough to cover the perks Chase gave up. How much business the perks bring? A big question mark. A lot of the card holders won't want to keep the CSR, Ritz and other expensive CCs when AFs knock on the door. 

 

A lot of the CSR card holders should not even have this card, or plan to keep it. They are all after the LARGEST bonus ever. When the bonus is sucked out, the card is half dead. It is a fact. 


They did lose a little. But there strategy will pay off.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/churning/comments/5oucdq/the_economics_of_churning_who_pays_for_the_rewards...


No, that strategy never pays back.

 

Chase's original plan is to attract the affluent 40-50 years old people, who are at the peak of their careers. Those people spend a lot and travel a lot. The disposable income is at $50,000 or higher. Those people charge through like $40,000 or more through the CCs. 

 

But most of the card holders are actually in their 30s. With the social media and Chase's lax underwriting standard, a lot of people with low disposal income applied and received the cards. Those card holders won't have the financial power to optimize the CSR. Then it becomes a burden and those people just burn out. We'll see a lot of card holders to PC the CSR back to CSP, or even FU when the AF comes in a year.

 

So if you see a bonus too good to be true, get it first, no mercy. It won't last long. So save the average applications and inquiry and be ready for something like this. You will be shut out if you are alerady inside the 5/24. 

Message 24 of 59
jfriend33
Senior Contributor

Re: AMEX feeling the heat


@BronzeTrader wrote:

@jfriend33 wrote:

@BronzeTrader wrote:

@jfriend33 wrote:

@BronzeTrader wrote:

The bonus game has to stop or at least slow down. Chase CSR is a good example. Now Chase comes out swinging the Chase Amazon Prime and will certainly take over from SyncB. This is very big and comes with minimal cost. 

 

We know the CCC can't survive by giving out 3% to 5% on a consistent basis. Of course some of us pay 20% interest, but there is some limit.

 


I don't think thats a valid statement at all.  The amount of money made makes bonuses look like chump change.  Swipe fees, when they dont pay your points right away and hold them captive for 30,60, or 365 days (like sams club).  Its all speculation really.  If it has to stop then why are there so many offers out for checking accounts????

 

Sync may take a loss....but think of all the people that use the no interest feature on amazon. I have only used it once, but I just don't get the obsession with the chase amazon card. Its not groundbreaking whatsoever.  Considering we have the ability to get amazon cards from places that are under a quarterly bonus or even a card has amazon as its special or quarterly.......


You read the articles on Chase losing big $$ the past quarter? This is why Chase is cutting back the CSR bonus. Ritz free night is cut too. Who knows what else will be cut? And the two Fairmont free nights are gone too. 

 

In the CSR case, the money made through card swipe or balance interest was not enough to cover the perks Chase gave up. How much business the perks bring? A big question mark. A lot of the card holders won't want to keep the CSR, Ritz and other expensive CCs when AFs knock on the door. 

 

A lot of the CSR card holders should not even have this card, or plan to keep it. They are all after the LARGEST bonus ever. When the bonus is sucked out, the card is half dead. It is a fact. 


They did lose a little. But there strategy will pay off.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/churning/comments/5oucdq/the_economics_of_churning_who_pays_for_the_rewards...


No, that strategy never pays back.

 

Chase's original plan is to attract the affluent 40-50 years old people, who are at the peak of their careers. Those people spend a lot and travel a lot. The disposable income is at $50,000 or higher. Those people charge through like $40,000 or more through the CCs. 

 

But most of the card holders are actually in their 30s. With the social media and Chase's lax underwriting standard, a lot of people with low disposal income applied and received the cards. Those card holders won't have the financial power to optimize the CSR. Then it becomes a burden and those people just burn out. We'll see a lot of card holders to PC the CSR back to CSP, or even FU when the AF comes in a year.

 

So if you see a bonus too good to be true, get it first, no mercy. It won't last long. So save the average applications and inquiry and be ready for something like this. You will be shut out if you are alerady inside the 5/24. 


I agree with most of that! :-)

EQ 730, TU 730, EX 720. INQs EQ-1, TU-9, EX-7 AAOA 4yrs Util 6% Inspiration: Themanwhocan's Cash Back Charts
Message 25 of 59
wanderingbuilder
Valued Contributor

Re: AMEX feeling the heat

I kind of follow the thought process here but Amex has had 100,000 MR offers on the Platinum many times over, and it never had the attention that CSR got.

....also I am in my early 30's and happy to have a Platinum. It will stay in my wallet at least until I get a CSR, but probably even alongside it because I live in a Delta hub city and pretty much use them exclusively for convenience. I do not have 50k+ expendable income, but as the story goes once you experience 'better", "good" just doesn't cut it anymore.


I dread the mere thought of having to sit out in a noisy, uncomfortable, dirty terminal waiting for flights rather than relaxing in a nice quiet, comfortable lounge, and although business/first class seats can cost a hefty premium over economy, at my height I seem to be juuuust tall enough to not quite fit normal economy so I'd rather earn points to upgrade or even just save up extra and buy business or first class outrightly to avoid that kind of discomfort for any flight longer than about 90 minutes.

 

Disposable income? not a ton, but priority is king in every aspect of life.

Message 26 of 59
longtimelurker
Mega Contributor

Re: AMEX feeling the heat


@jfriend33 wrote:

They did lose a little. But there strategy will pay off.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/churning/comments/5oucdq/the_economics_of_churning_who_pays_for_the_rewards...


OT, but there is a great table in the comments on that link showing income from interest vs interchange

 

         Bank                       Interest     Interchange

                                        revenue    fee revenue

American Express$1.346B$4.985B
Chase$2.218B$2.014B
Wells Fargo$2.597B$2.374B
Bank of America$6.998B$3.084B
Capital One$7.821B$1.572B
Citibank$11.377B$1.410B
Discover$5.456B$0.520B
Barclays$2.148B$0.231B
Message 27 of 59
BronzeTrader
Valued Contributor

Re: AMEX feeling the heat

The table makes a lot sense.

AmEx is still primarily a charge/credit card. It is a premium card with its root in the corporate business. This is why it's the only CCC with interchange fees higher than interest income. It's Everyday business is still new and it should bear fruits soon.

Citi, BA, Discover and Cap 1 are more to the common folks, The common folks are not that affluent and carry more balances. Those banks enjoy nice interest income.

It's interesting to see with its high profile marketing, Chase performance is only on par with the low profile Wells Fargo. It's high level marketing has not paid off, from either internet income or the interexchange income. My other guess is that Chase customers are somehow richer, or they tend to move around and they carry less balances than Citi customers. It seems Chase has a smaller credit card balance. Maybe Chase sold some of the CC portfolio to the market. Who knows.
Message 28 of 59
redpat
Senior Contributor

Re: AMEX feeling the heat


@BronzeTrader wrote:
The table makes a lot sense.

AmEx is still primarily a charge/credit card. It is a premium card with its root in the corporate business. This is why it's the only CCC with interchange fees higher than interest income. It's Everyday business is still new and it should bear fruits soon.

Citi, BA, Discover and Cap 1 are more to the common folks, The common folks are not that affluent and carry more balances. Those banks enjoy nice interest income.

It's interesting to see with its high profile marketing, Chase performance is only on par with the low profile Wells Fargo. It's high level marketing has not paid off, from either internet income or the interexchange income. My other guess is that Chase customers are somehow richer, or they tend to move around and they carry less balances than Citi customers. It seems Chase has a smaller credit card balance. Maybe Chase sold some of the CC portfolio to the market. Who knows.

Citi has a large store CC portfolio that you are forgetting about.  Wealth doesn't have anything to do with which card you carry.  Citi, Chase, boa and Amex are pretty much in the same boat.



Personal Cards: Amex Plat | Amex Delta Res | Amex Hilton | CSR | Citi AA Exec Business Cards: Ink+ | Amex BGR
Message 29 of 59
Shep_634
Member

Re: AMEX feeling the heat

Anecdotally, outside the forums/blogs, I've never really met people who fawn over Chase. I have friends/family/acquaintances that will fall on the sword for certain companies like Discover.

I was actually just talking to my brother recently after he opened a Chase Disney for his vacation... he said he was incredibly put off by customer service and run around he encountered. He's been a long time AMEX / Discover guy and swears by them. He (works in finance) swears Chase puts most people off because it is "big bank"... I don't necessarily agree with that logic, look at BOA.

I don't really understand why they'd be on par either Wells. While I haven't had Chase since I was very young and dumb, from the outside looking in, I would say that Chase offers one of the best lineups available for rewards/redemption.
Message 30 of 59
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