@yfan wrote:
This is always what lenders have intended for the use of their bonus offers, only now they are updating their policies and technologies to deal with the practice they consider bonus abuse. The bonuses are meant to acquire long term customers who regularly use their cards, not to fund free vacations for those whose purpose is merely to chase and hop bonuses.
I don't see this really doing any of that. Especially when amex is handing out massive retention offers etc. This isn't a change they have held most of these positions all along. People can still close the cards before the AF is due after the first year. Given that amex has a once in a lifetime bonus on cards I think that pretty much takes care of the issue.
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@Anonymous wrote:
@yfan wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
Thereare always class action suits out there waiting to happen. You can slow down spending if you want to. Unless they say you have to spend 2500 a month for 12 months they can't just take your points away. The agreement says I have to spend 2000 dollars in 3 months. If they want me to spend more put it in the agreement. I will spend my money and be on my way. An Amex Platinum would be terrible to have after the first year. Really they should make the cards better to keep for multiple years. Second year all I get is 1 percent return a 200 dollar travel credit and a 550 dollar fee. Who would want to keep that card?
The agreement also now says they can take it away if they in their sole discretion determine that you got the card just to game the bonus. As I say, they will do it and you are free to try a class action. This dog won't hunt.
Are you an attorney? I have received 30k in the last year due to class action lawsuits. Someone was arguing with Bosch being not liable in a lawsuit and low and behold Bosch settled and they sent me 350 dollars. If Amex wants to take my points away they better lawyer up.
Anyway there is language in the terms that if you cancel in the first 12 months. So if you wait until the second it hits12 months and cancel what are they going to do?
Woah. Hold on. I didn't read the whole thread but I certainly hope there are not people on here telling people they have to pay the AF after the first year in order to keep their points. That most certainly is not true! You simply need to keep the card open until the one year mark. Amex is not requiring people to pay the AF after the first year is complete in order to keep their points. The language used pretty much makes clear that is not their intent.
@yfan wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:Are you an attorney? If not I think even defending a coming class action lawsuit for something like this would cause Amex to lose more than they gain.
No, I'm not an attorney. I am however capable of looking up US code. Can you tell me under what law (either code or case law) you think this sort of a lawsuit can stand outside of contract law? Amex won't have anything to defend against because no attorney waste their time trying to certify a class. But for a moment assuming they did, Amex won't spend money on defense to just win this one case. They will do so to permanently establish their right to do this and far more broader things (which will be the likely outcome if Amex wins such a case) in the future. And the other lenders will help them.
I understand that we differ here. Time will tell who's right.
@Anonymous wrote:
Anyway there is language in the terms that if you cancel in the first 12 months. So if you wait until the second it hits12 months and cancel what are they going to do?
As I said, they won't need to wait 12 months to see if spending slows down significantly on a card after the requisite bonus spend. They can rescind or retract the bonus well before 12 months. Also, if someone does keep up their bonus level spending for a year and pays the AF, I'm sure Amex will be content with that. That being said, "closing withinin 12 months" is only one of the criteria they outline (and under a "for example" type heading at that) out of many non-exclusive ones. That means you don't just have to meet one of those criteria, you have to meet all of them plus any they determine appropriate to show that you're not merely bonus chasing.
I have not seen anywhere the suggestion that Amex will pull points if people don't keep spending on their cards for an entire year or if they don't pay the AF for the following year. I'm not sure if that is what you are suggesting or maybe I misconstrued what you wrote.
@yfan wrote:
@red259 wrote:I have not seen anywhere the suggestion that Amex will pull points if people don't keep spending on their cards for an entire year or if they don't pay the AF for the following year. I'm not sure if that is what you are suggesting and maybe I misconstrued what you wrote.
I am suggesting that under the new rules, that is one way they can detect people who are only interested in the bonus (which the new rules are trying to deal with). I certainly don't know that this will be the definitive or exclusive mechanism for doing so; I just think it is one of the avenues they can use.
I think most people are making a mistake by going straight to the "for example" part of the rules change rather than concentrating on what those "for example" rules are there to serve, and that is this line in the policy: If we in our sole discretion determine that you have engaged in abuse, misuse, or gaming in connection with the welcome bonus offer in any way or that you intend to do so we may not credit bonus miles to your account. We may also cancel this Card account and other Card accounts you may have with us. The "for example" parentheses that is inserted in the middle is merely to give a few nonexclusive examples of what may indicate such behavior.
Its not even close to saying that. If someone signs up for a card. Meets the spend legitimately and doesn't spend another dime on the card and doesn't close the card in the first 12 months I can assure you they are keeping their points. It most certainly is not abuse, misuse or gaming with the welcome bonus offer to spend the required amount of money and then not use the card.