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Amex TPC under Financial Review

wowzera
Valued Member

Re: Amex TPC under Financial Review

@FinStar

 

Sadly they can't accept bank statements... that may be my only US-issued document to prove my income.

Yes, my account manager told me that they would close the account if I don't give them the 4506-T Form. Would it be "better" that I close the account by myself or let Amex close my account? Or nothing will change regardless what I do?

 

@frugal47374

 

You got exactly my point.

If there's another non-resident alien that passed what I'm going through could help me find some solution with American Express...

Indeed. I played their rules and didn't lie a single point to them, could prove anything they wanted if they really remember that I am a non-resident alien (by being a NRA, I am prohibited by US Laws to fill an US Tax form! How could Amex US demand me the 4506-T?!)

 

Do you know how could I escalate this at Amex? I didn't see much goodwill from the account manager...

To reiterate: you got exactly my point here.

Message 11 of 39
K-in-Boston
Moderator

Re: Amex TPC under Financial Review


@wowzera wrote:

 

First off, I am a non-resident alien and applied 08/01/2019 and got approved at the same date for the Bluecash Everyday and The Platinum Card cards from American Express, just using my credit score built with my Bank of America credit card and my foreign passport number (I don't have Social Security Number).
...

After reporting my professional and income data (about $ 80,000 annually), she requested me a Tax Form issued by US. I said that I would not have such a document, but only Brazilian tax documents, as I declare my income in Brazil and receive my salary in Brazil. As I told before, I am a non-resident alien and I applied and got approved as a non-resident alien, just by giving them my foreign passport number, where they checked my credit history (Fico Score).

...

I am also prohibited by US Laws from filing a US Tax Form (obviously).
...

I dont work in the US and neither live there. So, theres no reason to get an ITIN.
About checking my income, theres no problems about that... what happens is that I dont have US tax documents, because I dont live and/or work in the US, and Amex knew that when I requested and approved my credit card.


I cut out the parts that aren't relevant because a very important distinction needs to me made and is going to be the issue here.  You are not a non-resident alien, you are a full-time resident and citizen of Brazil, which is quite different.  A non-resident alien resides in the United States, but is neither a citizen nor a permanent resident.  That would be someone who is in the process of obtaining a permanent resident card, somewhere in the naturalization process, or is here on a visa, such as a student or work visa, and non-resident aliens are required to file tax returns for any income earned while residing in the US.

 

In your case, you would not be eligible for a card as a non-resident alien as you do not reside in the United States.  There is not going to be any way around the FR as you are essentially a tourist.  You stated in a later post: "When I requested, I had to give them my foreign passport number, because I hadn’t SSN. There, they told me that was no problem being a non-resident allien."  What they told you is correct, but again the issue here is that you are not a non-resident alien, you are just a non-resident.  It is likely that there was a misunderstanding regarding your status, which resulted in your approval.

Message 12 of 39
FinStar
Moderator

Re: Amex TPC under Financial Review


@frugal47374 wrote:

I suppose it's too much to hope there is another non-resident alien with Amex who could chime in with their experience Smiley Sad

 

The OP has played by the rules, hasn't misled Amex, is willing to provide proof of income, but is unable to provide the specific documents requested because he doesn't have them.

 

I don't think there is any harm in escalating this at Amex.  So far it seems he's only dealt with someone who can't think beyond "we need to see US tax documents".  Since they gave him the card knowing he wasn't a US resident, it seems that someone up the chain knows what is really required.

 

 


Clearly none other than the OP filled out the application.  So, it is up to AmEx to decide the outcome.   That said, the application has the following T&C link right below the the Apply button which provides the following legal disclosure [excerpt]:  By submitting this application, you are requesting us to open an Account in your name and to issue Card(s) as you direct. Only qualified individuals 18 or over may apply for an Account. This offer is available to US Residents.

 

Now, the OP stated the following in post #3 above.   So, I would think it would behoove an applicant to inquire with AmEx prior to submitting an application to ensure that no issues would arise as a result of offshore residency, income or if the Global Transfer piece can apply depending on the country of residence.

 

 


@wowzera wrote:
I dont work in the US and neither live there. So, theres no reason to get an ITIN.

 

So, on the surface the intent wasn't really nefarious per se, but obviously AmEx's algorithms flagged the account due to a disconnect in the information provided.

 

ETA - @K-in-Boston provided more clarity on that piece Smiley Happy

Message 13 of 39
K-in-Boston
Moderator

Re: Amex TPC under Financial Review

Yes, again I think the issue here is the understanding of the term "non-resident alien."  It does not mean "non-resident," meaning someone who doesn't reside in the US.  It means an alien residing in the US who does not have the legal status of Permanent Resident, or as defined by the IRS:

 

An alien is any individual who is not a U.S. citizen or U.S. national. A nonresident alien is an alien who has not passed the green card test or the substantial presence test. 

Message 14 of 39
wowzera
Valued Member

Re: Amex TPC under Financial Review

@K-in-Boston

 

Thanks for your reply.

In the United States, "alien" is the term used within the immigration laws to refer to a citizen of another country. However, the terms "resident alien" and "non-resident alien" are actually terms from the federal tax laws. Resident aliens owe tax on all their income, while, as you have told, non-resident aliens owe tax only on income generated from U.S. sources.

As I have told before, I don't have any income generated from US sources, so there's no kinda of Tax Form I'm allowed to fill and, because of that, I can't give AMEX any US Tax Forms.

 

About being elegible for the card, I really don't know if I was approved by mistake, since I know other people in the same situation as me who have kept american express cards for years without any problems.
Also, my checking and saving accounts at Bank of America, as well as my credit card issued by Bank of America, were recorded with my current situation.
Also, in my Amex and BofA accounts, my primary address is is set to my brazilian address.

 

Now, the OP stated the following in post #3 above.   So, I would think it would behoove an applicant to inquire with AmEx prior to submitting an application to ensure that no issues would arise as a result of offshore residency, income or if the Global Transfer piece can apply depending on the country of residence.

That's exactly what I did. When I initially applied, because I didn't have an SSN, my application was rejected and I had to call an American Express phone number. The analyst who attended me was informed of my situation and even registered my Brazilian address as primary in my account. He also suggested that I could send my cards to my Brazilian address (which I refused, as it would take longer to arrive). I just informed everything I was asked...

 

So, on the surface the intent wasn't really nefarious per se, but obviously AmEx's algorithms flagged the account due to a disconnect in the information provided.


Actually, the analyst told me that the expenses flagged the account.

 When I applied for my card, I was informed that I could spend the $ 5,000 to reach the welcome bonus amount. As the offer to transfer points to Avios is in effect (40%), I wanted to be able to reach the value on this month's bill. I never thought I could have problems with that.
I should have researched about financial review before. But I never imagined that it would happen (or even exist). My fault.

Message 15 of 39
longtimelurker
Mega Contributor

Re: Amex TPC under Financial Review


@K-in-Boston wrote:

Yes, again I think the issue here is the understanding of the term "non-resident alien."  It does not mean "non-resident," meaning someone who doesn't reside in the US.  It means an alien residing in the US who does not have the legal status of Permanent Resident, or as defined by the IRS:

 

An alien is any individual who is not a U.S. citizen or U.S. national. A nonresident alien is an alien who has not passed the green card test or the substantial presence test. 


Yes, this.    I obtained my first US credit card as a non-resident alien, I was living and working here on an H1 visa, and if I hadn't started fairly early in the year, I would have had to file as a non-resident alien.   (The IRS has different standards for determining resident alien for tax purposes, either green card or something like being here 185 days in the tax year in question)

 

So Amex granted the card on the understanding the applicant was an NRA, and now the card will be closed because of the FR.  (If that hadn't happened, I assume things could have carried on!)  I don't blame the OP in that it wasn't a deliberate deception, just a misunderstanding of the NRA term.

Message 16 of 39
wowzera
Valued Member

Re: Amex TPC under Financial Review

I tried to contact the analyst again today, but I was informed that she is not in the office and only returns on Sunday ... I will try to explain the whole situation again to her.
Some friends told me that their account were submited to financial review and US Amex required a document issued by the US Embassy in Brazil to prove "proof of identity"... I will try argue about that.

Message 17 of 39
PlyrStar93
Frequent Contributor

Re: Amex TPC under Financial Review

I believe the people who process applications and those who conduct financial reviews are in different departments, and they can have different definitions and considerations about what can be used as proof of income.

 

The fact that other people like you have successfully kept their accounts open doesn't necessarily mean they are risk-free. They may have not been able to trigger a financial review, in which case may be asked for same type of US tax documents and lead to account closure if they can't provide any.

 

If you visit the US on B1/B2 status, the banks may not always deny you from a bank account and credit card (as there is no express policy about not allowing B1/B2 visitors to open accounts despite the implications of such status), but you should have a US address. They probably opened the accounts for you since you provided them one.

Message 18 of 39
Shadowfactor
Valued Contributor

Re: Amex TPC under Financial Review

I agree with what K-In-Boston stated.

Usually you need to be a resident and/or citizen to obtain a credit card in that country. I have dual citizenship and I still had a hell of a time getting a CC in my other nationality even though I reside there 6-8 months a year currently.

Why can’t you provide the 4506-T form. Fill it out as best and honestly as you can and send it to Amex. That might be all they want. To verify that you aren’t a US citizen or file US taxes. I doubt that’s the case but as long as you don’t lie when filling out the form I don’t see the harm in attempting to fill it out.

I think someone approved you when they shouldn’t have and it’s been caught during an audit of new applications. Every single Amex card I’ve ever applied for has stated this offer is only available to US residents




Total Revolving Limits $254,800

Message 19 of 39
wowzera
Valued Member

Re: Amex TPC under Financial Review

@PlyrStar93

 

Yes, I understand that they may have problems in the future, but those who'd problems solved them just by going in the US Embassy in Brazil and filing a form in the presence of a licensed notary recognizing they applied for an account with American Express, giving their foreign passports to evaluate their identify.

In my case, though, Amex US is requiring the T-4506, which I don't have Smiley Sad

About the address, Yes, I gave them an US Address that I use for years, it's not my own house, it's owned by a friend.

 

 

Message 18 of 20
Message 20 of 39
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