Amex yanks my chain

[Anonymous]

Is there something else you can put your 12k spend on that might earn you more the 1 MR per $1?

Was all 12k of that on dining and groceries?

[red259]

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@W261w261 wrote:

I have a relatively new Gold card, in addition to other Amex cards. I believe I got it in April. Shortly after receiving it, in connection with something else, I asked the CSR what my spend limit was. After the usual speech about limits set according to use, he said that out of the box the card had a limit of 27k. I PIF once for perhaps 1500 or so then ramped up my spending. My total balance is about 12k, with 4k due next week. Yesterday they denied a 125 charge, and sent me a "sorry Charlie" email. I called Amex and said "What about the 27k limit," and where was the shot-across-the-bow warning that I was approaching my limit? The rep, after complimenting me on my long relationship with Amex (always PIF btw) , said that "each card stands on its own," and that it takes about 6 months of experience to "settle in" a new card. He recommended using the "how much can I spend" function regularly (which I had not done, as 12k<27k).

He also said as a rule of thumb for those 6 months, to not exceed the prior average monthly spend by more than 50% and I should be ok.

So no warning, 27k dropped to say 13k, existing cardholder (2 others currently). The only explanation is that in the past 45 days my overall UTIL has gone from say 1% to 35% because of two big purchases not on Amex. Maybe I made them nervous? Or was the CSR speaking truth? 

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Dunno why the CSR would outright lie. Could have been mistaken I suppose but it sounds plausible what they said. $12k is a chunk of change on a new account and it is always best to ramp up slowly with the spend on charge cards if you are going to put through high amounts.  Still I think its obnoxious of Amex not to send warnings and just let people show up somewhere and get declined. I don't see how that helps with their customer relations and there is no reason for it. I use my amex gold for bonus categories, but in general I don't like using charge cards for spend unless I have a specific motivation for doing so.  

[W261w261]

[note - somehow my latest message, which should have been #10 or so, ended up as #1. My original post is now message 13] Not quite sure how this happened. 

Well, Remedios is correct, I burned Amex badly, the first time in the late 80's, and the next time for around 1k 5 years later. Why they let me back in is to me somewhat of a mystery, in fact if I had been reading what's been written here I would not have bothered to apply 5 years ago. But they did let me in, and then 6 months ago pre-approved me for an upgrade to the EDP card. Meantime using the material from this forum, and in spite of a CO(pd) in '18, I got my EX up to a bit over 700 (3 inq) , so applied for a Gold and a Delta reserve (approved at 5k). Warming to my little spree, I also picked up a Navy Visa Signature (5k), and without actually meaning to, a Lowe's for 4.5k. The warning shot came next when Chase decided that they did not care to assist me with a Marriott card, so I decided to retire to the garden for the rest of the year. 

But I also bought a condo for 225k (no mortgage, which put a large dent in my cash), that had wall-to-wall on the lower level. Decided to buy vinyl flooring at Lowe's. That was 6k. I put half on the Lowe's card and the other half on the Navy sig(2%). Then, the installers discovered the slab was not even, and the remedy was 3k worth of cement (Gold card). For a couple of weeks there my UTIL was really high, but I paid off a chunk of it pretty quick, then planned to do the rest in the next couple of weeks, including the 4k Amex component of the 12k total due. 

BTW, for some comedy relief, my Vantage score looked like airliner that had just taken a missile hit! Downdraft of like 175 points! Pretty funny. More importantly, EX F8 dropped only to 695,then recovered at bit to 710, I guess helped by some of my partial payments and by TD increasing my Target CL from 500->2000. My last Fico listed a UTIL of 38%, it had peaked at about 50%, and that did make me nervous. 

Long explanation but probably necessary for my argument,which is: (1) my bad history with Amex, is 30 years old, and since obviously I'm not blackballed, I do not think it's material to the existing moment. (2) my charges on the gold  (the EDP and Delta Res are more or less zero) were dining, groceries, a car repair for 1000+, no blockbusters or outliers. Generally a pretty even ramp-up. The denial was an online grocery purchase, so no humiliation. I threw them 1000 immediately, so they paid the previously-declined charge. Further, I respect and understand the macros of Amex's action, and it was my bad for not checking the spend power. I figured that if they were getting nervous, they would send a "we're getting nervous" email. They didn't. So lesson learned there. But it's bad PR imo. I like them a little less, but I can live with that. Of more concern is whether the feeling is mutual. (3) So, I  think my old news with them is not relevant, I think my perfect and almost universal pif 5 year history is, and although I haven't checked the last SP, I conclude they saw the swelling of the balances on the other cards, and decided this could be foreboding, and it was time to pause the Pink party. So far, btw, no other AA from Amex or other creditors, but I may not be out of the woods. In the next 14 days everybody will get paid off, and I guess we'll see going forward what my excursion into higher debt has cost, if anything. Maybe this is because I'm a new Gold card guy, or maybe that was just a contributing factor. I love the Gold (pink) card but have a feeling that the NPSL is an anachronism. It's good I guess that that 12k charge balance doesn't effect my UTIL.

[Anonymous]

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@theNavigator wrote:

Same here. They just cut my limit by 13k and I am paying my balance off and never doing business with them again. I don't care what their reasonings are, and yes they have that right, BUT what I do with my credit and as long as I pay my balances and bills should be none of their fing business. I am more than livid tbh, never had a company do this to me and won't stand for it.

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I don't agree.   Any issuer potentially has money on the line, and it is their duty (to shareholders at least) to mitigate risk.   If their algorithms show some increasing risk (and the algorithims can be wrong of course) despite a history of ontime payment, then cutting limits is what they should do.    Lines are never static, think of all the complaints here about cards that don't "grow", this is just the other side.

[Anonymous]

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@W261w261 wrote:

I have a relatively new Gold card, in addition to other Amex cards. I believe I got it in April. Shortly after receiving it, in connection with something else, I asked the CSR what my spend limit was. After the usual speech about limits set according to use, he said that out of the box the card had a limit of 27k. I PIF once for perhaps 1500 or so then ramped up my spending. My total balance is about 12k, with 4k due next week. Yesterday they denied a 125 charge, and sent me a "sorry Charlie" email. I called Amex and said "What about the 27k limit," and where was the shot-across-the-bow warning that I was approaching my limit? The rep, after complimenting me on my long relationship with Amex (always PIF btw) , said that "each card stands on its own," and that it takes about 6 months of experience to "settle in" a new card. He recommended using the "how much can I spend" function regularly (which I had not done, as 12k<27k).

He also said as a rule of thumb for those 6 months, to not exceed the prior average monthly spend by more than 50% and I should be ok.

So no warning, 27k dropped to say 13k, existing cardholder (2 others currently). The only explanation is that in the past 45 days my overall UTIL has gone from say 1% to 35% because of two big purchases not on Amex. Maybe I made them nervous? Or was the CSR speaking truth? 

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Are you certain you are not confusing the Pay Over Time limit with your spending limit?  Based on what is known about Amex charge cards, it seems implausible that they will tell you a spending limit when you had no prior spending history with the card.

Also, Amex can, and will, adjust based on your current credit report; and 35% aggregate utilization is rather high.  They have no obligation to warn you.  Lenders understand customer behavior very well and they know that if they were to routinely issue warnings about limits customer would test the limit so they always take action first then inform you.  That's standard risk management by any lender.

[theNavigator]

Yeah, I can see what you mean there, but cutting limits that extreme and of no help to me when I do pay my balances is bad business regardless. Investors and risk management, it's all a risk with issuing credit. Don't be in the business, they're paranoid. It screws with peoples credit portfolios. I disagree and I won't stand for it, point blank period.. I don't need them either as I have several other cards who treat me better, this is nonsense. I hope they lose a lot of business over this actually.. Apparently they are known for pulling this with folks and like I said they are out here cutting limits left and right, a close friend of mine they did the same thing to them also by several thousand. Makes the cards worthless.. 

[magixnite]

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@theNavigator wrote:

BUT what I do with my credit and as long as I pay my balances and bills should be none of their fing business.

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No, it's not your money. It's literally 100% their business if you're using their money to fund your purchases.

[theNavigator]

I am talking about them stalking over all credit portfolios and being shady and sneaky at the end of the day with how they choose to do business. I don't have to agree with you or others with similar mind set. To me it isn't "their" money either. I don't think like that at all, but to each their own. If I borrow and pay all my bills and pay interest. It's my money paying it back. So I guess that's where we differ. 

[notmyname]

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@theNavigator wrote:

I am talking about them stalking over all credit portfolios and being shady and sneaky at the end of the day with how they choose to do business. I don't have to agree with you or others with similar mind set. To me it isn't "their" money either. I don't think like that at all, but to each their own. If I borrow and pay all my bills and pay interest. It's my money paying it back. So I guess that's where we differ.

However at the time they lower your access to more of their money you had obviously not paid it back yet, so it was their money and and they did what smart lenders do, take conservative action.

You have stated twice you will not 'stand for it'; I and possibly others would be interested to know how you will put that statement into action.

Personally I will suggest that if you don't get some positive feedback from this you will have problems with other lenders. You are not doing them a favor and losing business over this is hardly and issue.

Good luck and think about it.

[W261w261]

Bit of good news on my Amex account.  My due date is in a couple of days, so I sent them more than what was due, although not the total balance. I checked my Spend Power today for 1,000 and it said Approved, so at least they aren't balance-chasing me, or not yet.

This whole event reminds me of the old NASA launches when they talked about "Max Q" - or the period of maximum aerodynamic stress on the rocket airframe.  Get through that, and there is some assurance things won't break in half later.  I'm definitely feeling that until all these balances get back to zero without some sort of AA (and maybe there's a  lagging effect) I'm not going to breathe easier.