Best pure spend card, AF not important

[CreditScholar]

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@Open123 wrote:

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@dabrian wrote:

After reading this thread I feel like I am really missing out on some value by just redeeming for statement credits every so often on my freedom card.  My family and I go on 2-3 vacations yearly so It sounds like I  could probably get more value by using my points for hotel stays it seems.  lots of good info in here.

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Right, one of the most often (and, I'm not sure why) misunderstood aspects of rewards is that transferring them to use in an affiliated FF or Hotel rewards program will always yield a better return than either statement credits or using the points (UR and MR) to make the purchase.

It astonishes me how this concept isn't self-evident to everyone.

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@Open123 wrote:

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@dabrian wrote:

After reading this thread I feel like I am really missing out on some value by just redeeming for statement credits every so often on my freedom card.  My family and I go on 2-3 vacations yearly so It sounds like I  could probably get more value by using my points for hotel stays it seems.  lots of good info in here.

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Right, one of the most often (and, I'm not sure why) misunderstood aspects of rewards is that transferring them to use in an affiliated FF or Hotel rewards program will always yield a better return than either statement credits or using the points (UR and MR) to make the purchase.

It astonishes me how this concept isn't self-evident to everyone.

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Never underestimate the power of ignorance.

If people are simply going to redeem for statement credit, they may as well get a cash back card instead.

[dabrian]

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@longtimelurker wrote:

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@dabrian wrote:

After reading this thread I feel like I am really missing out on some value by just redeeming for statement credits every so often on my freedom card.  My family and I go on 2-3 vacations yearly so It sounds like I  could probably get more value by using my points for hotel stays it seems.  lots of good info in here.

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Do you have another UR card like the CSP or one of the Inks?   The problem is that the Freedom alone doesn't allow you to transfer points

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Not at the moment but I do plan on applying for the CSP in March, My freedom will be a year old (5k) and my scores should be in the low 700's once I have my utilization in the single digits.  

[370Z]

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@Open123 wrote:

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@dabrian wrote:

After reading this thread I feel like I am really missing out on some value by just redeeming for statement credits every so often on my freedom card.  My family and I go on 2-3 vacations yearly so It sounds like I  could probably get more value by using my points for hotel stays it seems.  lots of good info in here.

---

Right, one of the most often (and, I'm not sure why) misunderstood aspects of rewards is that transferring them to use in an affiliated FF or Hotel rewards program will always yield a better return than either statement credits or using the points (UR and MR) to make the purchase.

It astonishes me how this concept isn't self-evident to everyone.

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A majority of Americans are terrible at math (and science), so it shouldn't come as a suprise.

[enharu]

To be fair most beginners wouldn't know about the feature either. Chase often advertise the freedom as a cashback card for instance. With the CSP being in the same rewards program, the average consumer may think the CSP is a cashback card by association as well.

[CreditScholar]

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@370Z wrote:

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@Open123 wrote:

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@dabrian wrote:

After reading this thread I feel like I am really missing out on some value by just redeeming for statement credits every so often on my freedom card.  My family and I go on 2-3 vacations yearly so It sounds like I  could probably get more value by using my points for hotel stays it seems.  lots of good info in here.

---

Right, one of the most often (and, I'm not sure why) misunderstood aspects of rewards is that transferring them to use in an affiliated FF or Hotel rewards program will always yield a better return than either statement credits or using the points (UR and MR) to make the purchase.

It astonishes me how this concept isn't self-evident to everyone.

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A majority of Americans are terrible at math (and science), so it shouldn't come as a suprise.

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...and people wonder why we're losing ground to the rest of the world. The arts may be the "in thing" at the moment because things like photography and drama are fun, but science and maths are where the jobs are at.

In all fairness, the same is true for a lot of countries around the world. The sad part is that studies show Americans have relatively high levels of confidence in math, but in reality know very little.

[enharu]

The US educational system below college level is quite a joke to be honest. Curriculum is pretty outdated, schools are underfunded and yet spending a lot of money on frivolous items, such as free iPads for every student in la county!

In terms of college education and research, America is still one of the few countries at the forefront.

Nevertheless, the ratio of stupid / incompetent people to smarter people is getting larger. As much as people and politicians bitch about unemployment rates being high, many well paid positions at big firms, especially tech firms, remains unfilled, simply because of the lack of qualified US applicants. On the other hand, international applicants are often bottle necked by the low quota figures of H1B visa.

[Open123]

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@enharu wrote:
To be fair most beginners wouldn't know about the feature either. Chase often advertise the freedom as a cashback card for instance. With the CSP being in the same rewards program, the average consumer may think the CSP is a cashback card by association as well.

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My frustration, not necessarily from those here, stems from those around me who just can't seem to understand the value and efficacy of travel rewards, especially when they are the very people for whom these rewards cards were specifically created.

I understand there's a learning curve for begginers.  We all had a learning process on how these rewards work.  But, it's not really rocket science.  It is astonishing to me that I am unable to explain to those around me the value certain rewards cards, because I think anyone should be understand it conceptually in 30 minutes or less.  I just can't believe it had taken me 3 hours (THREE hours!) to explain to a Lawyer friend on why the SPG card makes the most sense for her.

This isn't exactly complicated stuff.

[enharu]

Yea I understand what you mean. I have a few friends that are exactly like that too!

One redeems all her CSP points for cashback, and doesn't have any status with any hotel chains. She's a consultant at aconsulting firm, and easily spends 150+ days in a hotel each year. Been trying to explain it over and over for the past 3 months but she just doesn't seem to be bothered or get it. She flies to Asia using SQ at least once a year so she could have easily made good use of UA redemptions.

Another charges everything onto his corporate card even though it's not compulsory. Tried explaining it to him but he said its too "complicated".

Then again, I was an idiot when I first started out too. I charged over a years worth of travel expenses onto my Wells Fargo and chase amazon cards... Sigh. I wish I found out about this earlier. 

[lg8302ch]

It is NOT always worse to use as cash back instead of transfer. Look for yourself:  60K points/miles = 241$ fare value for a trip to Europe (taxes 421$ cannot be paid with miles/points!!) You tell me if this a better deal?  When you use 60K similar to cash back you can use it as 600-660$ value (Arrival) and pay almost the full transatlantic ticket with it. So it really depends on what you try to buy or use your points/miles on...everybody has to do their own calculation and for me I get more out of my points/miles by NOT transferring and use them as cash back     I have 300'000 points for Star Alliance and instead of using 60K miles plus pay 421$ in taxes additionally I decided to use my Arrival and the whole ticket only costs me 2$ (60K equal 660$ and this covers taxes as well!) This is my calculation and it works better for airfare use. At the same time I can collect status miles and with this get lounge access during my trip. But everybody needs to do their homework.

[sillykitty1]

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@lg8302ch wrote:

It is NOT always worse to use as cash back instead of transfer. Look for yourself:  60K points/miles = 241$ fare value for a trip to Europe (taxes 421$ cannot be paid with miles/points!!) You tell me if this a better deal?  When you use 60K similar to cash back you can use it as 600-660$ value (Arrival) and pay almost the full transatlantic ticket with it. So it really depends on what you try to buy or use your points/miles on...everybody has to do their own calculation and for me I get more out of my points/miles by NOT transferring and use them as cash back     I have 300'000 points for Star Alliance and instead of using 60K miles plus pay 421$ in taxes additionally I decided to use my Arrival and the whole ticket only costs me 2$ (60K equal 660$ and this covers taxes as well!) This is my calculation and it works better for airfare use. At the same time I can collect status miles and with this get lounge access during my trip. But everybody needs to do their homework.

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I completely agree.  

Redeeming for international first/bus class is the best spend but if the ONLY criteria is cents per mile redemption.  For a lot of people, it's not that simple.  Achieving optimal redemption requires a lot of flexibility, quite honestly with work/family obligations, how practical is that?

I'm a frequently flyer and I have a stash of both Delta Skymiles & UR Points.  I'm going on vacation, neither my destination or dates are flexible.  I need to leave on a Fri or Sat and return 2 weeks later on a Sunday.  I have been checking Delta, UA & Expert Flyer literally daily since my flights were 330 days out.

Here are my options:

Bus Class

200,000 Skymiles

or

250,000 UR Points (convert to UA miles)

Coach

95,000 Skymiles

or

110,000 UR Points (convert to UA miles)

or

102,904 UR Points (UR Mall Purchase) 

I chose the UR mall purchase because I am earning MQM, MQD & redeemable miles.  It may not be the best cents/mile redemption, but when I factor in securing my status for next year it makes the most sense.

So just because something is mathematically the "best" redemption doesn't mean it works for the real world.