@adelphi_sky wrote:Too late. I've already PC'd down to the CSP. $550 wasn't justifiable anymore. Even with the $300 travel credit. $250 is still not worth it. I'll take the CSP for $95 Alex!
If you feel like it was the right choice for you, then it probably was.
Does anyone know if you can PC it back to CSR again (if travel picks back up again soon, or CSR adds more perks soon) anytime, or do you have to wait at least 1 year?
And for that matter, by the same token, if you just PCd to CSR recently do you have to wait a year to PC it back to CSP again? Not asking for myself, since I'm keeping my CSR, but just curious. I remember I had to wait 1 year after getting my CSP to PC it to CSR, due to the different AF's, but I don't know if that applies both directions.
Total Loan Balance: $43k / $65k
Total SL: $78k
@coreysw12 wrote:
@adelphi_sky wrote:Too late. I've already PC'd down to the CSP. $550 wasn't justifiable anymore. Even with the $300 travel credit. $250 is still not worth it. I'll take the CSP for $95 Alex!
If you feel like it was the right choice for you, then it probably was.
Does anyone know if you can PC it back to CSR again (if travel picks back up again soon, or CSR adds more perks soon) anytime, or do you have to wait at least 1 year?
And for that matter, by the same token, if you just PCd to CSR recently do you have to wait a year to PC it back to CSP again? Not asking for myself, since I'm keeping my CSR, but just curious. I remember I had to wait 1 year after getting my CSP to PC it to CSR, due to the different AF's, but I don't know if that applies both directions.
I PC'd my CSP down to a CS and back to a CSP. I got my CSP 7/2018 and then downgraded to a CS when my first AF hit in 7/2019 after not getting a retention offer. I then upgraded back to a CSP in January or February 2020, which was maybe 6-7 months after the downgrade. I don't know if they require specific wait time, but you shouldn't have to wait a year to upgrade back.
Fun fact: the AF took until June to show up, so it was like I went ~16 months without an AF. I'm assuming it won't get its next AF in Jan/Feb, and that June is my new AF date, according to DPs I've seen on here.
My AF just hit this month. Because i PC from CSP to CSR it's $550, not the $450 for CSR renewals.
Not a big deal, imo, since i got 5x on the $300 travel credit on groceries, plus we use doordash a lot, so my effective AF is only $130, plus not counting the DoorDash subscription, which again we have saved money using because my fiance uses it multiple times per month.
Anyway, main point is that those who PC from CSP to CSR this year will pay $550. Those who renew their CSR get the $450 AF.
Not a big deal, imo, since i got 5x on the $300 travel credit on groceries, plus we use doordash a lot, so my effective AF is only $130, plus not counting the DoorDash subscription, which again we have saved money using because my fiance uses it multiple times per month.
Anyway, main point is that those who PC from CSP to CSR this year will pay $550. Those who renew their CSR get the $450 AF.
Makes sense they'd charge $550 for new applicants and those who PCd this year, since those people signed up with the expectation that the fee would be $550
@Loquat wrote:I hear you and can appreciate your perspective. However I still don't think $550 justifies the benefits at least in my situation. Most of the categories you mentioned can be had at 3x on a no annual fee card like the Propel ...
... I don't know if you've ever had to deal with Chase's team when filing a claim but I have. I liken dealing with them to calling the customer service line at Frontier; it's terribly unplesant ...
I give a hat tip to CDW but I'd venture a guess that most folks either use their own insurance or if they lack insurance and my understanding of how credit card insurance works, then the secondary then becomes primary so they're covered.
So I guess I'll ask you this if you don't mind sharing your view, how does one justify the CSP/CSR vs the Propel or the Citi Premier? Shy of CDW, the Preimer and the Propel meets or exceeds the CSP/CSR on almost every level. They both offer 3x on car rentals, parking, tolls, (ending 4/21 on Premier) air fare, hotels, dining, fuel, (grocery on the Premier), cell phone protection.
The Propel takes it further by offering lost luggage, travel accident insurance, roadside assistance, purchase protection, return protection, and extended warranty....and that's all on a no AF card.
... It's not my intent to be overly harsh about the CSR but one can't ignore that its luster is lost. It's lurking in the shadow of its own no AF variants and the likes of other no AF cards by various lenders.
Wow, a lot to answer or comment on there @Loquat but thanks for the reply and asking my opinion. Apologies for the delayed reply but I needed time to gather some information and to write a reply. Of course, all these travel cards are moving targets. I got the CSR two years ago after carefully considering the travel card I would want to carry for the long term, never imagining how quickly the market would change! Since then the CSR AF was raised to $550 (which I also was very displeased about) and changed some benefits, Citi changed the benefits on the Premier card you asked about, Platinum enhanced their travel protections, and now most recently the Chase Freedom rewards overlap with Sapphire rewards. As this thread discusses, I cannot fathom Chase would allow the Freedom enhancements to stand unanswered by changes in the Sapphire cards, and believe we'll see some adds to the CSR/CSP coming soon. While I understand how some on My Fico add and drop cards frequently as they become more or less useful, I prefer not to change horses so often and will stick it out with CSR for at least at least a few years. (With my luck, I would drop the CSR and then it would suddenly change drastically for the better again!) 
To me, it's still too early to tell what's going to happen with the new versions of the Freedom cards and how they play with the Sapphires. So while I recognize they've been improved, my comments will simply focus on my thought process and how things were prior to the new variants.
No, I've never had to file a claim with Chase, so I can't speak to how easy or difficult they make the process. Maybe I'm giving them too much credit for good customer service in this area but so far I'm satisfied overall with that.
While I’m only familiar with the Citi Premier by what I’ve read about it, it seems to be a good card, especially rewards-wise after the enhancements where they added restaurants and supermarkets to 3 points per dollar category in addition to airfare, hotels and gas stations. The downside, though, is the loss of the 25% bonus for travel center redemption and the downgrading of cruises, tolls, parking, and entertainment to 1% categories. But moreover, the Premier or Prestige just didn’t offer the trip protections I outlined in my earlier post, so I can’t see either one exceeding CSP/CSR on every level. Correct me if I’m wrong, but it appears to me that Citi is woefully inadequate in competing with their competition on travel protections. We all value those subjective travel perks differently, and if someone is focusing more on rewards rate, I can see how the Premier might be a better card for them.
Another major reason I erred away from Citi’s TY points was what I saw as more nebulous value. The Points Guy valuation estimates TY points are worth up to 1.7 ccp compared to up to 2 ccp for AMEX MRs or Chase URs. Maximum values are when transferred to partners, and of course, all of these could be worth more or less, depending on how you actually use them. Not being a frequent flyer or particularly savvy with points, I used their valuation as part of my benchmark in rewards. To further complicate matters for the infrequent flyer, Citi’s partners don’t include any of the Big Four US domestic airlines so someone has to go through one of the airline alliances to transfer. Also, the cash value of both MRs and TYs are only worth 0.6 or 0.5 ccp respectively while Chase URs are never worth less than a full 1.0 ccp. That just gives me more flexibility and value in how I redeem. I also like that I can redeem in the Chase Travel Portal quite easily and get no less than 1.5 ccp without having to jump through hoops transferring to partners or looking for upgrade opportunities. From my understanding, Citi TY points are worth only 1.0 ccp when used to book travel through the Citi travel portal. Overall, I just see more value in URs than TYs and I was making a choice about one or the other.
So looking at that, I can get 3 points back on either the Premier or the CSR for dining. But the cash value of those points with Citi is only 1.5%, while Chase would give me the full 3%. For the travel portal, Citi would give me 3% while Chase would give me 4.5%. And for transfer to partners, those 3 Chase URs might net me around 6% while Citi’s TY would likely be closer to 5.1%, on average.
As for Rental Car CDW, there's a huge difference in primary and secondary coverage. Secondary coverage on credit cards is fairly common; primary is rare. With secondary, if you use it, you'll still owe your insurance deductible and will likely have higher premiums after filing a claim. With Primary, your private insurance policy never gets involved. If there's a claim, you have nothing out of pocket and your rates won't be affected. But yes, many cards do offer secondary coverage. To me, getting primary coverage included with my AF on the CSR is great peace of mind and could be a valuable benefit if I need it.
The Wells Fargo Propel is an excellent no-AF travel card and I've thought of applying for it just for the lender and card diversity. If you couple it with a WF Visa Signature, you can even make a "poor man's bifecta" by rolling GO FAR Rewards points over for a 50% bonus on airfare purchases. But Propel's benefits don't compare to the CSR. It’s just not in the same league on a benefit-by-benefit comparison, but I wouldn't expect that on a no-AF card. I also have the Citi Costco card which pays 3% cash back on travel and dining, so there are other cards in the same category if 3% cash back at no-AF is your primary concern. Before I got CSR, the Citi-Costco got a lot of that spend. If I wanted a simple 3% and was unconcerned with travel perks, I could use my Citi-Costco or my AOD Visa Signature to get that. But I wanted a better travel card.
Let's look at the "Roadside Assistance" coverage offered by CSR versus the Propel. CSR's coverage is true Roadside Assistance and covers not only coordinating service (at no additional charge) but pays a credit of up to $50 towards the service call, up to 4x per year. Propel is more of a Roadside Dispatch that coordinates service at a cost of $59.95 per callout. And that fee includes only the first five miles of towing, a jumpstart, lockout service, or fuel delivery but excludes other additional charges.
Let's look at Lost Luggage. Propel pays up to $1K per insured and caps at $250 for valuable items. CSR pays up to $3K per insured and caps at $500 for valuable items.
Let's look at Travel Accident Insurance. Propel pays up to $150K. CSR pays up to $1 Million.
So while Propel's benefits are nice for a no-AF card, they are far less valuable or complete than CSR.
I know your point about the Premier/Propel focused as much on the high fees of CSR compared to those cards. I believe I still get my value back out of it and have advocated on this forum for members to consider the CSR instead of the CSP sometimes just because (depending on profile and spend), the effective AF is not nearly as large as many assume at face value. For someone who can’t organically use all the credits, their situation may be different, but here is how I priced it out to justify the AF. I avoid having multiple cards paying Global Entry credits so that there is no overlap. Right now, I have two cards paying that which covers myself and DW. (CSR and BofA PR.) Even after the $100 increase in AF, I believe I’m getting pretty good value for the money.
Chase Sapphire Reserve
= $550 AF
Less $300 annual Travel Credit
= Net $250 AF
Less TSA Global Entry annual average $25 credit ($100 every 4 years)
= Net $225 AF
Less $60 Door Dash Credits
= Net $165 AF
Less $55 Roadside Assistance AAA equivalent coverage
= Net $110 AF
So far, with credits not available on the CSP, I'm already most of the way down to match the $95 AF. Then, depending on spend, I make up the remainder of my AF with the 50% rewards enhancements when transferring UR points on my Quadfecta cards and go into positive territory. At only 25% bonus instead of 50% on CSR, it takes CSP longer to make a dent on the AF with the Freedom or INK cards.
- 7.5% on Chase Freedom categories (5% x 1.5%). $1500 per quarter x 4 = $6000 x 7.5%. Additional value (2.5%) x $6K = up to $150 annually if I max out each category.
- 7.5% on Chase INK Cash (no AF). 5% on cable-internet, cellphone service, and office supplies worth 7.5% in Chase travel portal. My spend is at least $4K annually = additional $100 annually or more (at 2.5% additional)
- Freedom Unlimited charges can be redeemed for 2.25%, uncapped, uncategorized. Increased value dependent on other available cards. (Disclosure: Since I got CSR, I also have AOD FCU Visa for 3% and Bank Of America Premium Rewards with Platinum Honors at 2.625%. However, the additional .25% above a typical 2% no-AF cash back card can add up for most users.)
- Dining at 3% is a huge category for me and DW. I travel often still (even pandemic) and eat on the road, plus we eat out a lot at home and/or with family since we're dual income empty nesters. Getting a minimum 4.5% (through Chase travel portal) can really add up. Our heavy dining spend is also why I chose to add the AMEX Gold recently where I'm getting the 75K MR SUB and to dabble in diversifying my Dining Spend. Plus, it gives DW a premium AU card with no additional fee, which CSR was going to charge us.
Then, there’s the subjective value of the all the travel protections I described earlier, PLUS the following perks, depending on how much you want to value them. But I quote the annual fee for each so that all could do their own valuation.
- Priority Pass Lounge membership; equivalent "Prestige" annual membership purchased alone is $429.
- Dash Pass (waives delivery fees) at annual value of approximately $120 ($9.99 per month)
- Lyft Pink (15% discounts and other persk) at annual value of approximately $240 ($19.99 per month)
- Rental Car discounts of 25% to 30% at Silvercar (Audi), National, Avis.
All-in-all, I feel I'm getting excellent value out of the CSR and a far superior travel product for my travel patterns than any other travel cards.
@Loquat wrote:
Another reason I don't care for travel portals is because if there's one thing I've learned from Covid as it relates to this hobby is that it can an ABSOLUTE nightmare to have to deal with a travel portal or whomever they outsourced it to, when it comes to flight changes and cancellations. They will wear you down to the point of almost giving up. It's just soo much easier to deal with the hotel/airline direct than to have a middle man who only serves to complicate things.
Just a quick thought on that part, I had to cancel a whole bunch of bookings this summer for a trip that I had to cancel. The airfare was through United (booked directly), the hotels were a combination of hotels.com reward nights and Chase UR Portal bookings, and the rental car was Chase UR portal - all booked on points.
Canceling everything proved to be incredibly easy in my experience, with all 3 vendors. No phone calls required, didn't need to talk to anybody at all; just signed in to the website, opened the reservation, clicked "cancel", and in all 3 cases my rewards/points were redeposited into my accounts in full and instantly.
The cancellation process was so easy that I recently decided to book a "speculative" trip for this coming spring, while I know there's only maybe a 10% chance that I won't have to cancel it, just because I know now how easy they're making it to cancel/rebook things right now. You do need to be sure, however, that the hotel rooms you book are refundable, because the lowest room rates often aren't. Aside from that, the UR travel portal didn't give me any difficulties with cancelling at all. But of course YMMV, this was just my personal experience with it. But having never booked airfare on UR portal (and I don't see why I ever would, since it's almost universally cheaper to transfer the points to an airline and then book it from them), I can't attest to the ease of canceling that.
