@Loquat wrote:@Aim_High Thanks for taking the time to reply and to share your perspective. I can appreciate the value you find in the CSR once you broke it down. It actually may be better in your situation over the others. I am a frequent flyer so I do put a little more value on points and miles over cash back ...
As far as TPG's valuations, I think several others in this forum would echo that TPG values are junk. They're inflated and they have motive to push certain products so I would suggest to anyone to do your own research and never, EVER rely on their numbers.
I hear a lot of folks speak of Costco but I liken them to the Sam's Club card. While there's no annual fee per se I do take into account that I have to pay a membership fee to each club which in my mind serves in place of an annual fee.
... TSA/Global Entry does has some value that given out on so many cards that I place little value on that as well.
... I don't value DoorDash as the food is usually more expensive than if I were to buy directly from the restaurant.
... like you and I have both done here, we've looked at products and determined what works and doesn't for our situation. This hobby has many paths and most of us take a different one but the goal is usually the same...to enjoy a perk, benefit, or and experience that come from rewards. Thanks again for sharing your view. I certainly appreciate the detailed response and I hope that it serves as good info for others who want to compare the cards that we've mentioned.
Thanks, @Loquat, and I'm glad my detailed reply helped to offer some insight into my perspective and methodology when considering the value of different cards. It was my hope to offer some helpful information to others as I've learned that we have many more lurkers reading our posts than members actively participating. And different situations and lifestyles merit a different approach.
Just to comment further on my perspective on a few things as well as to ask some questions:
- I agree that Costco is a little more complicated value calcuation that may vary greatly depending on your shopping habits. I choose to even pay for the Executive membership which gives me an additional 2% back on annual warehouse purchases for a higher membership fee. I've found that I spend enough to get more than the annual fee difference back without having to make any changes in behavior. Same for the warehouse fee in general. The basic $60 fee for all members means I just have to save an average of $5 per month over what I would spend outside the warehouse. That's less than $1.25 per week. For me, that's a no-brainer. Buying bulk items like toiletries, toilet paper, paper towels, coffee, canned goods, or cereal pays for that alone. Or one or two big-ticket purchases per year could make up the entire $60 and then some. If and when my Costco membership stops paying for itself, I'm willing to close it and let my Citi Costco card go, but I can't see that happening any time soon! As always, YMMV and everyone needs to make their own assessment.
- The TSA Global Entry reimbursement is definitely offered on a lot of premium cards, and there is a danger in diluting your benefits and overall value from adding too many cards with credits such as this. While I've considered adding another premium travel card to my lineup beyond the CSR, overlapping credits such as Global Entry reimbursement make it less attractive.
- I totally agree with you that Door Dash can be a more expensive alternative, regardless of the waived delivery fee with Dash Pass. In my case, on my business travels I am sometimes in a hotel room with no personal or rental car. My only options are dining in-hotel at expensive rates, restaurants within walking distance, or taking public/transportation or rideshare to a restaurant. Sometimes, especially during inclement weather when I'd choose not to walk, the higher expense on food delivery is relative to the higher costs I would pay for hotel dining, fees for transportation, or the inconvenience or safety of walking. This has been particularly appropo during the coronavirus, when even many hotels have closed or limited their in-hotel dining options. In the same vein, when I choose to dine in the hotel instead, my hotel-branded credit cards which offer higher in-hotel rewards are helpful in offsetting some of that cost.
- My big questions to you are regarding points valuation. I have heard the criticisms of websites such as The Points Guy and recognize that they get paid for links to card applications. However, their points reviews are with the all largest players (lenders, airlines, and hotels) and it would appear they are getting paid by ALL of them. Their review don't appear to favor one lender 100% of the time, or one card 100% of the time. The major general travel point systems (MR-UR-TY-Diner's Club) are all valued closely together at between 1.7 ccp to 2.1 ccp. Except for a few outliers on either end, most of the airline rewards programs are valued at around 1.0 ccp to 1.5 ccp and most of the hotel rewards are approximately 0.5 ccp to 1.0 ccp. And for many consumers like myself who are not already knowledgable veterans of multiple loyalty programs, these approximate valuations are a helpful general guide. While I realize that points valuation can vary widely in practice, having a targeted or expected value for points is helpful when someone is deciding on a path before collecting them. So I would like to know your perspective about which of these valuations is wrong and how you would change the valuation to be more impartial or accurate? Thanks in advance for that feedback!
@UpperNwGuy wrote:Just a quick comment to say that I really enjoyed the dialog upthread between @Aim_High and @Loquat. I had engaged in a similar, but far less thorough dialog with @Aim_High a couple of months ago when I announced my intention to downgrade my CSR to a CFU after the annual fee posted on Sept 1. I came away from that earlier discussion with the conclusion that the CSR is still a good card if you do enough travel and dining. @Aim_High travels and dines, despite the pandemic, but I do not. That means that the CSR continues to be a good deal for him, but it no longer was for me (after I had liquidated my point balance through Pay Yourself Back). My experience is quite similar to that of @Loquat, and I thank him for expressing this point of view so eloquently.
Will I ever go back to the CSR? Probably not. I loved the CSR when it first came out because both the $300 travel credit and the 3x points earnings were based solely on generic spending categories. There were no Amex-style merchant-specific spending incentives whatsoever. Chase seems to have decided that the Amex model is not so bad after all, and they're now linking the value proposition of the card to spending at specific merchants. I left Amex for Chase several years ago for a reason, but if Chase is going to become a second Amex, then I'll stick to cash back cards. I'm willing to reconsider if Chase updates the CSR to make it more like the 2016 original (and the pandemic ends so I can dine and travel again), but I don't see Chase doing that.
Thanks for the kind words @UpperNwGuy. 
I'm glad that the sharing of perspectives and situations is helpful to our community in general. Likewise, though I sometimes don't take enough time to recognize others' contributions, I've learned a lot from other similar interactions.
I like having these discussions because it helps to accentuate that there are a lot of differences between us, our situations, lifestyles, goals, and valuations of credit cards. There is no one-size-fits-all solution and in the end, we have to make our own decisions based on our own evaluation of all these factors. However, I'm glad to have the community to help guide me along the way.
I had the same feelings about Chase starting to model AMEX with CSR changes as credits towards specific merchants. One of the things I loved about CSR was how easy and general the $300 travel credit was to claim and I similarly disliked how complicated AMEX tried to make things to prevent you from claiming their credits. I was very discouraged to see Chase following that path. Despite that, I'm trying out the Gold card and seeing if it will work for me. It was the best AMEX match for my spending and I got the 75K MR point SUB which takes the pressure off for awhile to make up the AF. If AMEX and Chase continue to make their AFs as hard or harder to recoup, I'll also consider moving back towards cash back, where I was before I got back into the AF-cards a few years ago.
@wasCB14 wrote:According to the annual report for the year ending 9/1/19, Costco has a 91% membership renewal rate in the US and Canada. 88% worldwide.
For most customers, the membership is not some "hidden cost" to getting the card. Deciding which card to use is an afterthought to having the membership.
I use Costco for warranty stuff and gas, but otherwise favor PR or WWFCR for most Costco spend.
And that's exactly the direction I'm heading since I transferred assets to get Bank of America Preferred Rewards Platinum Honors status on my Cash Rewards card. Instead of getting 2% at Costco on either my Costco card or BofA CR, I can earn 3.5% on general Costco spending which is a much better deal! That 3.5% even beats my 3% on AOD FCU Visa, which is also a better spending alternative at Costco than the Citi card. Like you, the Citi Costco card is still my primary gas card except when I don't have higher quarters with Freedom or Discover.
While the Costco card was great a few years ago and got more of my spending, I've enlarged my card selection where it's become a backup player. I doubt they'll do it, but it would be nice to see Citi-Costco do a "refresh" on the Costco card to enhance the benefits or value. For example, if they made the Costco cash back 3% instead of 2%, kept 4% on gas, and then a flat 2% on everything else, it could be even more of a one-card wallet for many people who don't diversify rewards.
