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Citi Double Cash World Elite Version

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Super Contributor

Re: Citi Double Cash World Elite Version

Rewards+ is Citi's attempt to make a no AF ThankYou card useful and I'd argue that it is possibly slightly more useful than the previous product which was the ThankYou Preferred. The Preferred had basically zero use for anyone once the Double Cash came out, since it never earned more than 2% on anything. The Rewards+ at least has the potential to earn more than 2%, albeit only in limited circumstances. I'd still not recommend it over a Double Cash, but it's an improvement over the previous version of the no AF TY card.

Message 21 of 28
Established Contributor

Re: Citi Double Cash World Elite Version


@kdm31091 wrote:   "... The Rewards+ at least has the potential to earn more than 2%, albeit only in limited circumstances."

Yes, to be fair in my comparison, I'll admit that is possible.  But someone would have to be very careful. 

 

The highest basic calculated return is about 2.2%, pretty good return if optimized cautiously. 

 

To do that, you'd have to max out the 2% gas-grocery spend at exactly $5,991, which rounds up to the $6,000 limit.

 

On that $6K spend, you'd earn 12,000 TU points (6000 x 2). 

 

You'd also earn a bonus of 1200 TU points since you're within the 100,000 TU point cap.

 

13,200 TU points on a spend of $5,991 = 2.203% 

 

If you bought a bunch of $4 or less items, you'd also earn from 2.50 to 10.00% on those purchases, which could further elevate your total bonus level.  You'd get the extra 0.1% on that spending too, up to 100,000 points.  For example, if you went to Starbucks on 20 workdays per month and bought a $3 cup of coffee, you'd get 10 TU points x 20 days = 200 points per month.  Do that for 12 months and you get 2400 points, then a 0.10% bonus of 240 points = 2,640 points on $720 spending for the year.  That works out to a 3.66% return on your daily cup-o-joe!!  ... But for God's sake, don't use if for anything else!

 

Because anything above $5,991 on gas-groceries, or any charges for "everything else" above $4 per charge starts to diminish your returns.

 

The other pitfall is redemption.  You could amass that AWESOME return and then totally fumble the ball by not watching out how you redeem the points, ending up with much less benefit. As I pointed out, CITI has made this a confusing minefield to navigate successfully.  (The best benefit would be to move the TU points over for premium travel redemption in conjunction with a Premier or Prestige card, where you could further magnify their point value.)

 

Sounds like too much work and trouble unless you're into gamesmanship and "sticking it to the MAN"  ... LOL  Smiley Very Happy

 

 




Total Length of Credit = 35+ years; AoOA (Currently open accounts) = 26+ years;
AAoA = 9.5+ years; AoYA = less than 1 year (Aug 2019)
Total Open Credit Lines Over $400K. Utilization Less Than 1%. Inquiries until May 2020 (TU:1 -- EQ:0 -- EX:5)
*Hover cursor over each card to see name, CL
Message 22 of 28
Established Contributor

Re: Citi Double Cash World Elite Version


@Saeren wrote:
This is one of the reasons why my QuickSilver came out of the sock drawer to replace my PayPal Cashback. Capital One just makes it all very easy and straightforward.

 

I was contemplating a DC to replace my PayPal Cashback but all of the shenanigans that Citi plays with it has killed my interest there. I was thinking about getting a Rewards+ and then PCing that to Dividend or DC after the first year but the way you broke down the rest of their mess makes me not want any of their cards period so thanks for that.

You're welcome! Glad it helped.  I'm curious about your experience with some of your cards.  I notice you not only have the Capital One QS but also as you pointed out, the PayPal CB MC which I had thought would be a contender for 2% cards.  However, you sound dissatisfied.  Please tell us more about PayPal CB MC.  Has Synchrony Bank been difficult to work with?  Or have the rewards redemptions thru PayPal account been cumbersome? 

 

I'm also a little curious about a couple of other 1.5% cards you carry.  The AMEX 1.5% Cash Magnet - as compared to the CAP ONE QS.  And the SSFCU Power Cash - another 1.5% on everything card - as compared to AMEX CM and CAP ONE QS.

 

After learning about the complications of some other 2%+ cards and missing out on USAA's Unlimited 2.5% CB (I am a veteran), I am leaning towards the PENFED Power Cash card at some point since I don't have a 2% on everything card yet.  As a veteran, I would qualify for the 2% Penfed Honors Advantage member rate (basic 1.5% + bonus 0.5%) without even having to set up a checking account.  Smiley Happy 

 

Current offer: $100 SUB.  And if you need it, a 12-month 0% interest free balance transfer @ 3% BT Fee. 

 

No AF. No FTF. No caps on spending. No minimum redemption. No categories to enroll or track.  Points don't expire as long as account is open and in good standing.  Not that I ever plan to use it but a very low APR (11.99%+) for a cash-back card.  And not that I would get a card based on low fees but it does have much lower than average late fees ($10 to $25 vs up to $39 for DC.) Just seems superior in many ways to Citi DC, PayPal MC, Fidelity VS,  and even the Alliant 2.5% card since it requires heavy spend to overcome the AF, an Alliant CU deposit account, and customer service reports seem iffy. 

 

While I know there are mixed reviews about PenFed on this forum, it seems like a decent card and worth a try if I can pass their stringent underwriting. 

 

Thoughts on these or other 2% cards, anyone?




Total Length of Credit = 35+ years; AoOA (Currently open accounts) = 26+ years;
AAoA = 9.5+ years; AoYA = less than 1 year (Aug 2019)
Total Open Credit Lines Over $400K. Utilization Less Than 1%. Inquiries until May 2020 (TU:1 -- EQ:0 -- EX:5)
*Hover cursor over each card to see name, CL
Message 23 of 28
Super Contributor

Re: Citi Double Cash World Elite Version


@Aim_High wrote:

@Saeren wrote:
This is one of the reasons why my QuickSilver came out of the sock drawer to replace my PayPal Cashback. Capital One just makes it all very easy and straightforward.

 

I was contemplating a DC to replace my PayPal Cashback but all of the shenanigans that Citi plays with it has killed my interest there. I was thinking about getting a Rewards+ and then PCing that to Dividend or DC after the first year but the way you broke down the rest of their mess makes me not want any of their cards period so thanks for that.

You're welcome! Glad it helped.  I'm curious about your experience with some of your cards.  I notice you not only have the Capital One QS but also as you pointed out, the PayPal CB MC which I had thought would be a contender for 2% cards.  However, you sound dissatisfied.  Please tell us more about PayPal CB MC.  Has Synchrony Bank been difficult to work with?  Or have the rewards redemptions thru PayPal account been cumbersome? 

 

I'm also a little curious about a couple of other 1.5% cards you carry.  The AMEX 1.5% Cash Magnet - as compared to the CAP ONE QS.  And the SSFCU Power Cash - another 1.5% on everything card - as compared to AMEX CM and CAP ONE QS.

 

After learning about the complications of some other 2%+ cards and missing out on USAA's Unlimited 2.5% CB (I am a veteran), I am leaning towards the PENFED Power Cash card at some point since I don't have a 2% on everything card yet.  As a veteran, I would qualify for the 2% Penfed Honors Advantage member rate (basic 1.5% + bonus 0.5%) without even having to set up a checking account.  Smiley Happy 

 

Current offer: $100 SUB.  And if you need it, a 12-month 0% interest free balance transfer @ 3% BT Fee. 

 

No AF. No FTF. No caps on spending. No minimum redemption. No categories to enroll or track.  Points don't expire as long as account is open and in good standing.  Not that I ever plan to use it but a very low APR (11.99%+) for a cash-back card.  And not that I would get a card based on low fees but it does have much lower than average late fees ($10 to $25 vs up to $39 for DC.) Just seems superior in many ways to Citi DC, PayPal MC, Fidelity VS,  and even the Alliant 2.5% card since it requires heavy spend to overcome the AF, an Alliant CU deposit account, and customer service reports seem iffy. 

 

While I know there are mixed reviews about PenFed on this forum, it seems like a decent card and worth a try if I can pass their stringent underwriting. 

 

Thoughts on these or other 2% cards, anyone?


The PayPal Cashback has some quirks that I don't like. The only way to manage the card is to first log in to your PayPal account and then use the SSO link to get to the Synchrony portal. There is no direct login page and no dedicated app unlike Sync's other cards. In addition, PayPal has asked Synchrony to disable their notifications for this card which means that the only time you get an alert is if you make the transaction through PayPal and you have opted in to those alerts. This has bothered me since I got the card but now its the stories of what Sync makes you go through with disputes that has me switching back to the QS. Its just not worth the hassle to me.

 

The SSFCU card is fine but it has a $25 minimum redemption. Same with the Cash Magnet. I will use the Cash Magnet for large purchases though because of AMEX's extended warranty.

 

PenFed and I don't like each other so their 2% card is out, I highly doubt that SDFCU would approve me for theirs, Alliant's standard 2% card is on the maybe list, BBVA's card is out because I won't get a checking with them to get the extra .5% and my bank doesn't offer a 2% card.

 

I actually have nothing but good things to say about Capital One in my personal experiences with them and I like that cash back is available as soon as the transaction posts. For someone that doesn't have a lot of spend to split due to low income (18K SSDI), it makes a lot more sense to go with the easiest redemption for cash back rather than be able to redeem once or twice a year.


Scores 1/2019:
Scores 9/2019:

Hover over my cards to see my limits!
Goal cards: Does it look like I really need any more cards? My goal is to garden until 2/2020.
Message 24 of 28
Established Contributor

Re: Citi Double Cash World Elite Version


@Saeren wrote:  "... The PayPal Cashback has some quirks that I don't like. The only way to manage the card is to first log in to your PayPal account and then use the SSO link to get to the Synchrony portal. There is no direct login page and no dedicated app unlike Sync's other cards. In addition, PayPal has asked Synchrony to disable their notifications for this card which means that the only time you get an alert is if you make the transaction through PayPal and you have opted in to those alerts. This has bothered me since I got the card but now its the stories of what Sync makes you go through with disputes that has me switching back to the QS. Its just not worth the hassle to me.
The SSFCU card is fine but it has a $25 minimum redemption. Same with the Cash Magnet. I will use the Cash Magnet for large purchases though because of AMEX's extended warranty.
PenFed and I don't like each other so their 2% card is out, I highly doubt that SDFCU would approve me for theirs, Alliant's standard 2% card is on the maybe list, BBVA's card is out because I won't get a checking with them to get the extra .5% and my bank doesn't offer a 2% card.

 

I actually have nothing but good things to say about Capital One in my personal experiences with them and I like that cash back is available as soon as the transaction posts. For someone that doesn't have a lot of spend to split due to low income (18K SSDI), it makes a lot more sense to go with the easiest redemption for cash back rather than be able to redeem once or twice a year

Thanks for all that info! I had wondered about PayPal MC, due to dealing with Synchrony Bank and having to get deposits via PayPal.  Your remarks definitely want to make me exclude it!  I enjoy the excellent apps I have with several of my cards which help me to keep track of charges and payments and among other things.  I can usually check posted charges almost instantly.  That interface sounds very cumbersome and not customer-friendly.  Ugh!!  Smiley Mad

 

I agree about minimum redemptions being a big downside to some cards.  Unfortunately, it seems ALL of the higher-rate cash-back cards have complications and limitations of some sort whether it be their annual fees, having to maintain accounts with a bank or PayPal or Fidelity for deposits, inferior customer service or interface, or redemption policies like minimum redemption amounts or not getting a full penny-a-point in value if you're not careful. 

 

I have also had good experiences overall with Capital One and like their immediate cash-back.  My biggest complaints with them are they have low starting limits and seem overly conservative about credit limit increases. 




Total Length of Credit = 35+ years; AoOA (Currently open accounts) = 26+ years;
AAoA = 9.5+ years; AoYA = less than 1 year (Aug 2019)
Total Open Credit Lines Over $400K. Utilization Less Than 1%. Inquiries until May 2020 (TU:1 -- EQ:0 -- EX:5)
*Hover cursor over each card to see name, CL
Message 25 of 28
Super Contributor

Re: Citi Double Cash World Elite Version


@Aim_High wrote:

@Saeren wrote:  "... The PayPal Cashback has some quirks that I don't like. The only way to manage the card is to first log in to your PayPal account and then use the SSO link to get to the Synchrony portal. There is no direct login page and no dedicated app unlike Sync's other cards. In addition, PayPal has asked Synchrony to disable their notifications for this card which means that the only time you get an alert is if you make the transaction through PayPal and you have opted in to those alerts. This has bothered me since I got the card but now its the stories of what Sync makes you go through with disputes that has me switching back to the QS. Its just not worth the hassle to me.
The SSFCU card is fine but it has a $25 minimum redemption. Same with the Cash Magnet. I will use the Cash Magnet for large purchases though because of AMEX's extended warranty.
PenFed and I don't like each other so their 2% card is out, I highly doubt that SDFCU would approve me for theirs, Alliant's standard 2% card is on the maybe list, BBVA's card is out because I won't get a checking with them to get the extra .5% and my bank doesn't offer a 2% card.

 

I actually have nothing but good things to say about Capital One in my personal experiences with them and I like that cash back is available as soon as the transaction posts. For someone that doesn't have a lot of spend to split due to low income (18K SSDI), it makes a lot more sense to go with the easiest redemption for cash back rather than be able to redeem once or twice a year

Thanks for all that info! I had wondered about PayPal MC, due to dealing with Synchrony Bank and having to get deposits via PayPal.  Your remarks definitely want to make me exclude it!  I enjoy the excellent apps I have with several of my cards which help me to keep track of charges and payments and among other things.  I can usually check posted charges almost instantly.  That interface sounds very cumbersome and not customer-friendly.  Ugh!!  Smiley Mad

 

I agree about minimum redemptions being a big downside to some cards.  Unfortunately, it seems ALL of the higher-rate cash-back cards have complications and limitations of some sort whether it be their annual fees, having to maintain accounts with a bank or PayPal or Fidelity for deposits, inferior customer service or interface, or redemption policies like minimum redemption amounts or not getting a full penny-a-point in value if you're not careful. 

 

I have also had good experiences overall with Capital One and like their immediate cash-back.  My biggest complaints with them are they have low starting limits and seem overly conservative about credit limit increases. 


I have had a different experience with Capital One compared to most. 

I got my QS as my first card 4 years after my BK at $300 in 2014 and my last CLI brought it to $8250 in March of last year. I applied for SavorOne without a prequal last month and got a $10K limit. Capital One has actually extended me more credit than anyone else, very close to my annual income. 

I do agree that the higher cash back cards tend to be a bit more difficult to deal with which is why I am kind of leaning towards giving up that .5%. I mean it's not like I have a lot of non-cat spend anyway. I have optimized my wallet in such a way that I have very little that isn't covered by another card. I have spent less than $1K on my PayPal Cashback since January and like $500 of that was to pay my last two collection accounts. I am just going to sock drawer it for now and see if anything changes between now and January but another thing for me is that my Sync exposure is pretty high and honestly I would rather have an $8-$10K Amazon Store Card than an $8K PayPal card. 


Scores 1/2019:
Scores 9/2019:

Hover over my cards to see my limits!
Goal cards: Does it look like I really need any more cards? My goal is to garden until 2/2020.
Message 26 of 28
Moderator

Re: Citi Double Cash World Elite Version

The last few comments have started veering way off topic from the main OP.

While there may be other comparisons that can be made with other products, the OP wasn't seeking advice on SYNCB, Citi Rewards, Capital One, etc. Let's keep things on topic for anyone that has input on the Double Cash WEMC and its silver meatballs.
Message 27 of 28
Community Leader
Mega Contributor

Re: Citi Double Cash World Elite Version

I don't want to derail the thread any further, but I googled silver meatballs 

 

Thanks @FinStar 😂

EX 754 EQ 774 TU 752


Message 28 of 28
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