cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

Considerations for the third step of building

tag
uncredited
Frequent Contributor

Considerations for the third step of building

This is sort of the successor thread to my earlier "thin young file" thread.  Step 2 is now successful.  Discover was 13 months ago, and a CL to 4k this month.  Applied and approved for Citi DC.

 

Continuing on from the conversation with @Anonymalous, my EX score dropped from 770 to 729 with the new account and based on what was said, it sounds like, maybe, 3 months from now COULD be a good time to try again for step 3.

 

My next two probable cards are the FNBO WS cobrand and Chase Amazon.  Not sure what the 5th or potential 6th will be.

 

Today I did receive the FNBO (direct, not the cobrand) prequal rejection letter.  Their reasons were:

"Insufficient Credit File"

"To few accounts (currently paid as agreed)"

"Lack of recent installment loan information"

"Length of time accounts have been established"

"Length of time revolving accounts have been established"

 

I've added an account with Citi now so that helps a little but the rest won't please them much more later.

 

That's a prequal not app, and is direct not cobrand, but FNBO sounds extremely thin file averse.  I'm not doing anything until at least July obviously the new account is brand new, but just trying to get a feel for what ought to be ahead

 

Another update, it looks like both Citi and Disco have reported both the new account and the CL increase.  I don't know if either has reported a random pre-statement balance, or not, the default myFico red flags for all 3 show "number of accounts with balances" which I won't know for weeks if that means they show balances on both already or if it means just too few accounts.  Either way, for the DPs with 1 new card after 13 months of oldest account:

-49 points EQ for new account, no inquiries (!) (maybe/maybe not showing a balance on both cards?  Can't tell yet.)

-41 points for TU for new account, no inquiries (!) (maybe/maybe not showing a balance on both cards? Can't tell yet.)

-24 points for EX for new account, -19 for inquiry, -43 total (Shouldn't be showing balance on both cards.)

 

Down from

770, 771, 770 to

721, 730, 727

 

I know, I know, it's expected with a new account on thin file, but it's so very demoralizing!

Message 1 of 19
18 REPLIES 18
PNWRambler
Frequent Contributor

Re: Considerations for the third step of building

Congrats on the success thus far!

It's always frustrating when you get a ding to your score while using credit responsibly and trying to build... But it happens. It'll become less of a ding with time, and with a faster bounce-back. Your AAoA is a big factor right now. Just be patient and only open a new card every 3-6 months at the soonest, and you'll get there!  

Message 2 of 19
Anonymalous
Valued Contributor

Re: Considerations for the third step of building

To build good credit you have to do things that hurt your credit score in the short run. It's not a steady upward progression. Two steps forward, one step back. As @PNWRambler mentioned, it's more severe with us new files.

 

FNBO isn't thin file adverse. Don't read too much into the rejection reasons. Under the Fair Credit Reporting Act, lenders are required to give specific reasons when you're denied credit. So what happens is they have a list of reasons, find a few that match your file, and send them to you. It's not necessarily the real reason why you're rejected, which may be more complex. The list you got is pretty standard, and mostly just says you're a thin/young file. The one that stands out to me is "insufficient credit file". You have 13 months of history, but only 1 card. I got approved for an FNBO card with 9 months of history, but I had 2 cards. Now that you have 2 cards, you've more than matched me. Why not give it a few months, and try the prequal again?

Message 3 of 19
SUPERSQUID
Valued Contributor

Re: Considerations for the third step of building


@uncredited wrote:

This is sort of the successor thread to my earlier "thin young file" thread.  Step 2 is now successful.  Discover was 13 months ago, and a CL to 4k this month.  Applied and approved for Citi DC.

 

Continuing on from the conversation with @Anonymalous, my EX score dropped from 770 to 729 with the new account and based on what was said, it sounds like, maybe, 3 months from now COULD be a good time to try again for step 3.

 

My next two probable cards are the FNBO WS cobrand and Chase Amazon.  Not sure what the 5th or potential 6th will be.

 

Today I did receive the FNBO (direct, not the cobrand) prequal rejection letter.  Their reasons were:

"Insufficient Credit File"

"To few accounts (currently paid as agreed)"

"Lack of recent installment loan information"

"Length of time accounts have been established"

"Length of time revolving accounts have been established"

 

I've added an account with Citi now so that helps a little but the rest won't please them much more later.

 

That's a prequal not app, and is direct not cobrand, but FNBO sounds extremely thin file averse.  I'm not doing anything until at least July obviously the new account is brand new, but just trying to get a feel for what ought to be ahead

 

Another update, it looks like both Citi and Disco have reported both the new account and the CL increase.  I don't know if either has reported a random pre-statement balance, or not, the default myFico red flags for all 3 show "number of accounts with balances" which I won't know for weeks if that means they show balances on both already or if it means just too few accounts.  Either way, for the DPs with 1 new card after 13 months of oldest account:

-49 points EQ for new account, no inquiries (!) (maybe/maybe not showing a balance on both cards?  Can't tell yet.)

-41 points for TU for new account, no inquiries (!) (maybe/maybe not showing a balance on both cards? Can't tell yet.)

-24 points for EX for new account, -19 for inquiry, -43 total (Shouldn't be showing balance on both cards.)

 

Down from

770, 771, 770 to

721, 730, 727

 

I know, I know, it's expected with a new account on thin file, but it's so very demoralizing!


I have that same red flag on my reports for too many accounts with a balance even though only 4 of my 17 open revolvers have any balance, the rest are at zero and 2 only have a balance due to bt's.

{ BK7 DC 12/2019 } target 1600/ kohls Visa 7000/ discover IT cb 6500 / 2nd discover IT cb 6000/mercury 4100 / firestone 2800 /legacy 3000 /first savings bank cc 3000/ cap1 QS 5000/ cap 1 savor one 3100 /Bread rewards Amex 4k, Penfed PCR signature visa 10k/ penfed gold 7.5k NFCU >signature visa cash rewards 21700/bread cashback amex 8000

>/ nfcu platinum 15k, BABY NEEDS NEW SHOES !!!!!
closed-- reflex, applied bank, first digital, mission lane, ikea, fingerhut, big lots, valero gasoline, ollo, more to come
Rebuilding since September 2020
who i burned - chase, cap 1, TD bank, Sync, were the biggies
Income 40k
Total utilization around 20 pct depending on my current usage/needs
Ficos in the 680 - 690 range, the 9's slightly higher than the 8's
My vantage scores 708 - 711
TCL - about 110k
Retired since 2017
Message 4 of 19
uncredited
Frequent Contributor

Re: Considerations for the third step of building

@AnonymalousIntellectually it all makes sense. Smiley Wink

 

Their list is certainly accurate, which my mind reads it as "we really aren't interested in newish, thin files right now, sorry".   BUT, though they didn't send a letter (kudos to FNBO for doing that just for a prequal) Citi no doubt rejected the prequal for the same reasons, but given the APR and SL, really liked the file under the scrutiny of a real app, so you're right, I suppose the reasons for prequal rejections mean little (which is probably why other banks dont provide them.)  Plus the card I'd actually app for isn't their core cards, so the UW might not be the same, either.  (better or worse, though, hard to say.)

 

Good advice, though, I wouldn't be doing anything before July to get 3 months/statements at the very minimum on Citi, and would also put me at 1.5 years on oldest account (Ironically, that puts me at the original "every 6 months" at that point lol.) I'll try the prequal again at that time and see what it says.

 

@SUPERSQUIDWow, they flag you for too many accounts with balances when less than 1/4 of them do?  A dream of mine is to get to the point where I have a high enough CL and enough open accounts that I can just use a few and pay them automatically when the statement is due like normal people who use credit cards instead of micromanaging them and paying them in advance, and worrying about if pending charges will post at the wrong time to make the statement cut, but it sounds like they treat anything but AZEO as a negative!

Message 5 of 19
Bradac56
Regular Contributor

Re: Considerations for the third step of building


@uncredited wrote:

 

A dream of mine is to get to the point where I have a high enough CL and enough open accounts that I can just use a few and pay them automatically when the statement is due like normal people who use credit cards instead of micromanaging them and paying them in advance, and worrying about if pending charges will post at the wrong time to make the statement cut, but it sounds like they treat anything but AZEO as a negative!


I'm not sure what normal people do but a better payment system would be to setup autopay for the monthly minimum and then once a month after the minimum’s pay out set down and make a second payment for the remainder or a large chunk if your still in payoff mode. 

 

That way you never miss a payment, and you have the flexibility to carry a balance on a card if need be.  The only thing to figure out is what your minimums are and set your due dates accordingly. 

 

 Excessive worrying over anything is bad for your health especially finances and politics.  Best to setup a simple system that you can forget for most of the month.

 


Message 6 of 19
Kforce
Valued Contributor

Re: Considerations for the third step of building


@uncredited wrote:

 

Today I did receive the FNBO (direct, not the cobrand) prequal rejection letter.  Their reasons were:

"Insufficient Credit File"

"To few accounts (currently paid as agreed)"

"Lack of recent installment loan information"

"Length of time accounts have been established"

"Length of time revolving accounts have been established"


Some info as data for FNBO

My youngest daughter in school with part time job.

Income:  $9,250 / yr.

No instalment loans

Cards: Local CU, 7-years, $2,500 CL

Discover Student,  2 years, $3,500 CL

Fico's around 825 - 835

 

She just applied 3 days ago, and got the "Evergreen", CL $4,400

The only things she has that you don't is a little more age on accounts.

Message 7 of 19
Kforce
Valued Contributor

Re: Considerations for the third step of building

@uncredited wrote:

A dream of mine is to get to the point where I have a high enough CL and enough open accounts that I can just use a few and pay them automatically when the statement is due like normal people who use credit cards instead of micromanaging them and paying them in advance, and worrying about if pending charges will post at the wrong time to make the statement cut, but it sounds like they treat anything but AZEO as a negative!

--------------------------------------------------

Yes

The issue is that no mater how large your CL's or how many cards you have.

In order to maximize your Fico Scores you have to control utilization and zero out most of your cards.

This requires not using and/or not taking full advantage of your cards in trade for scores.

 

My opinion after using all payment methods over the years. (Many years)

Move all statement dates as close to end of month as issuer will allow.

This is to line up with institutions that use end of month.

( USBank, and many CU's where they force a date near EOM )

Set up Billpay from a Bank or CU where your account always has money

Push payments to each CC issuer

All my payments link ACH and are credited in 1-3 days

This lets you control, when you pay, how often, and how much.

No limits like pulling where you can't pay more than balance, etc.

 

You have almost unlimited options by pushing.

You can set auto pushes every month, let them ride and then pay again later for Azeo.

Just use the monthly auto push and let remaining utilization report every month.

Set up auto, put on hold, and pay manually.

Easy to pay balance + pending + extra (week or two of spend), letting 0 balance report and still use and receive rewards from a card

Just because you can use to control utilization you can also let it report and pay a few day later.

All your payments in a row, on a statement from your CU or Bank. (Nice for entering into spreadsheet, etc)

 

I have an auto push on the 5th for every card for 1/3 of my cards average spend.

(Emergency to cover minimum payments+ for many months)

I log-in to every card on the 19-20th and check balance, etc.

Decide what and how much to pay for each card.

(Allow utilization report,  control to a %, or Azeo)

Was fun to play and see what happens to scores, did this for about a year)

Go to billpay and pay each.

The control, safety, bookkeeping and flexibility of payments more than compensate for the one extra log-in.

{ As always just my opinion, works for me and tried them all }

Message 8 of 19
uncredited
Frequent Contributor

Re: Considerations for the third step of building

Here's a general question for all:. Disco closes on the 24th, Citi closes on the 3rd.  My intention is to make the disco the zero and Citi the one reporting a balance. Right now disco has the reported balance from last month. Citi is the new account showing on all 3 bureaus but with no balance until the 3rd.

 

Should I pay disco to 0 even though that means I'm all zero for over a week until the 3rd when Citi reports; or let disco report a balance and then let City report a balance until next months disco even though that means a bit less than a month with balances reported for both?  Only alternative is just keep disco as the one reporting a balance but that will be harder to manage as Citi is the dd now.

 

@Bradac56Normal people don't do the above and just pay ccs when the statement is issued and have balances reported on all used cards. I dream of that convenience. This whole forum is the overthinkers club Smiley Happy

 

I did set up disco auto pay for minimum just in case life happens and I forget. I didn't do it for Citi yet because I'm micromanaging that one since it's used daily.  Nothing to pay down, the stress comes in just trying to pay to zero, or specifically non zero but minimal util before reporting. Which is a massive pain.

 

@Kforcethat 7 year aaoc is a massive difference for "insufficient history" vs 1 though.  I'm sure that's the whole difference right there, at least as far as prequal metrics... Hard to say with apps.

 

I'll have to explore Bill pay. I've honestly never used it because I've never trusted it with no control over when they pay vs pull that's reliable, or manual for regular bills. I know very little about how it works (like how do they know how much to pay, or do you preset a guesstimate? How reliable is posting, etc?). For the dd card it doesn't matter, I monitor it anyway. But for disco and other future cards it sounds very helpful for managing the zeros.  I hate that the pulls don't let you pay before statement... But then as above normal people don't do that anyway....  

 

I didn't even know you could move statement dates?  Due dates I knew so least for some cards but not statement. 

Message 9 of 19
HeavenOhio
Senior Contributor

Re: Considerations for the third step of building

@uncredited, if you'd like, you can leave a small balance on the Discover card (provided you don't pay interest to do this), then pay it down after Citi reports. Once Citi reports, pay Discover to zero, then call in and ask them to report your zero balance. Discover and Chase are two banks that are known to report your current balance upon request.

 

When I was at all zero, my scores dropped between 4 and 45 points. Oddly, the weird Experian 04 (FICO 3) Bankcard score increased by four points. Smiley Happy

Message 10 of 19
Advertiser Disclosure: The offers that appear on this site are from third party advertisers from whom FICO receives compensation.