Could the Citi Double Cash be a 3% card?

[cws-21]

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@FinStar wrote:

Highly doubtful.  But, since you asked, Citi has been well-leveraged over the years to introduce different products to keep pace with some competitors. Some products work, while others are retired or scaled back.  Case in point, the Citi Dividend is still around, but no longer available as a PC or new applications.  The Citi Forward was discontinued as well. If anything, they would have changed it by now given by what's out there in the market, including AOD.

As far as Double Cash goes, it'll likely remain in place as such especially if it's been working for them over the years, plus they just introduced their newest Custom Cash card soooo.

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@FinStar, I agree, but a guy can dream! Citi may not view AOD, or other FIs with 2.5% or 3% cards, as serious competition anyway.

[FinStar]

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@cws-21 wrote:

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@FinStar wrote:

Highly doubtful.  But, since you asked, Citi has been well-leveraged over the years to introduce different products to keep pace with some competitors. Some products work, while others are retired or scaled back.  Case in point, the Citi Dividend is still around, but no longer available as a PC or new applications.  The Citi Forward was discontinued as well. If anything, they would have changed it by now given by what's out there in the market, including AOD.

As far as Double Cash goes, it'll likely remain in place as such especially if it's been working for them over the years, plus they just introduced their newest Custom Cash card soooo.

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@FinStar, I agree, but a guy can dream! I doubt Citi views AOD, or other FIs with 2.5% or 3% cards, as serious competition anyway.

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You can dream for sure, but what's evaluated by their executives is what drives product viability and sustainability.  Believe me, they are aware of anything out there in the market, serious competition or not 😉.  Just like I'm sure they were intrinsically aware of WF's Active Cash before it was launched to the public.

[simplynoir]

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@cws-21 wrote:

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@simplynoir wrote:

The only way I see this if they tie it to depository relationships like BofA does with their credit cards earning higher rewards the more money you have with them. Otherwise it costs too much especially for a general public card. You need to either have it where membership is limited (USAA) or geo-restricted (AOD sort of) to keep the higher earnings long term-ish

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@gdale6, I feel your pain. My mechanic limits what cards he accepts, which has been an inconvenience for me in the past. However, I completely understand his perspective and don't blame him at all. @simplynoir, would a total of 2.5% to 3% be that prohibitive for Citi given my understanding is that many people don't PIF? This assumes 1.5% or 2% would be given as cash back only when making payments.

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I mean sure they could do it but I don't see Citi actually implementing it. In a way when Citi made it to where cashback earned from Double Cash "converted" to TYPs while still keeping the 1cpp cashout option it was probably in response to Chase's ecosystem with the FF/FU/CSP/CSR strategy. Allows those that can find higher earnings through transfer partners that option while keeping the cashback people happy especially now that the Citi Premier and Prestige (?) now do it as well. In a way I wish AMEX did this as well but that's another topic altogether.....

Again, unless they somehow limit what customers get the higher earnings I see Citi keeping things the way they are. It's working for them so far their IT aside

[cws-21]

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@simplynoir wrote:

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I mean sure they could do it but I don't see Citi actually implementing it. In a way when Citi made it to where cashback earned from Double Cash "converted" to TYPs while still keeping the 1cpp cashout option it was probably in response to Chase's ecosystem with the FF/FU/CSP/CSR strategy. Allows those that can find higher earnings through transfer partners that option while keeping the cashback people happy especially now that the Citi Premier and Prestige (?) now do it as well. In a way I wish AMEX did this as well but that's another topic altogether.....

Again, unless they somehow limit what customers get the higher earnings I see Citi keeping things the way they are. It's working for them so far their IT aside

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Again, I don't disagree with anything you, @simplynoir, or anyone has mentioned regarding the likelihood that Citi will increase the % cash back for the Double Cash. You especially make a good point about Citi's relatively recent change in allowing the conversion to TYPs! I would just add that, from my perspective, Citi, and uniquely Citi, is already limiting "what customers get the higher earnings" by requiring those customers to PIF to get their full 2% cash back on purchases. This is why I have pondered whether or not Citi, in particular, is better positioned to offer a 2.5% or 3% card than other FIs despite it being highly unlikely.

[JNA1]

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@cws-21 wrote:

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@simplynoir wrote:

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I mean sure they could do it but I don't see Citi actually implementing it. In a way when Citi made it to where cashback earned from Double Cash "converted" to TYPs while still keeping the 1cpp cashout option it was probably in response to Chase's ecosystem with the FF/FU/CSP/CSR strategy. Allows those that can find higher earnings through transfer partners that option while keeping the cashback people happy especially now that the Citi Premier and Prestige (?) now do it as well. In a way I wish AMEX did this as well but that's another topic altogether.....

Again, unless they somehow limit what customers get the higher earnings I see Citi keeping things the way they are. It's working for them so far their IT aside

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Again, I don't disagree with anything you, @simplynoir, or anyone has mentioned regarding the likelihood that Citi will increase the % cash back for the Double Cash. You especially make a good point about Citi's relatively recent change in allowing the conversion to TYPs! I would just add that, from my perspective, Citi, and uniquely Citi, is already limiting "what customers get the higher earnings" by requiring those customers to PIF to get their full 2% cash back on purchases. This is why I have pondered whether or not Citi, in particular, is better positioned to offer a 2.5% or 3% card than other FIs despite it being highly unlikely.

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They may be in better position to do so, but as long as Chase, Cap 1, BOA, AMEX, and other big banks continue to keep their general purpose cash back cards at 1.5%, I don't see any other big banks jumping to 3%. A jump to 2.5% would be most likely IMO, if 2% cash back cards become the norm. FBNO, BBVA (if PNC keeps the Rewards card), and now WF adding their new 2% card hopefully keeps raising the bar for others to to do so. I imagine that would continue the trend of benefits being nerfed on cards as well, so it's kinda a double edged sword. 

My hope is that AOD can sustain profitability with their 3% card, and that others will follow suit. CUs have an inherit advantage to be able to do that. I also hope that Alliant's new no AF 2.5% flat card can survive and thrive. Being honest, after getting my last 3 installment loans through CUs, I seriously don't see myself going back to banks after my mortgage and my truck is paid off. 

[Anonymous]

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@FinStar wrote:

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@cws-21 wrote:

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@FinStar wrote:

Highly doubtful.  But, since you asked, Citi has been well-leveraged over the years to introduce different products to keep pace with some competitors. Some products work, while others are retired or scaled back.  Case in point, the Citi Dividend is still around, but no longer available as a PC or new applications.  The Citi Forward was discontinued as well. If anything, they would have changed it by now given by what's out there in the market, including AOD.

As far as Double Cash goes, it'll likely remain in place as such especially if it's been working for them over the years, plus they just introduced their newest Custom Cash card soooo.

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@FinStar, I agree, but a guy can dream! I doubt Citi views AOD, or other FIs with 2.5% or 3% cards, as serious competition anyway.

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You can dream for sure, but what's evaluated by their executives is what drives product viability and sustainability.  Believe me, they are aware of anything out there in the market, serious competition or not 😉.  Just like I'm sure they were intrinsically aware of WF's Active Cash before it was launched to the public.

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It wouldn't surprise me if they have someone come check places like this; their social media people could be tasked with it during downtime even. This site is a gold mine for a lot of things and it costs nothing to benefit from it. 

[longtimelurker]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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It wouldn't surprise me if they have someone come check places like this; their social media people could be tasked with it during downtime even. This site is a gold mine for a lot of things and it costs nothing to benefit from it. 

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Possibly, but not sure how much use it would be to an issuer looking at a general population.   Yes, you can get needs and wants from a bunch of credit card nerds here,but those may not reflect much of your user base, and even if you do just what they want, those fickle [expletive deleted] people will move on to the next thing soon enough!

Within a few months of DC becoming a 3% card  we would see "Could the Double Cash be a 5% card, + 5 10% categories?"

[Anonymous]

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@longtimelurker wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

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It wouldn't surprise me if they have someone come check places like this; their social media people could be tasked with it during downtime even. This site is a gold mine for a lot of things and it costs nothing to benefit from it. 

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Possibly, but not sure how much use it would be to an issuer looking at a general population.   Yes, you can get needs and wants from a bunch of credit card nerds here,but those may not reflect much of your user base, and even if you do just what they want, those fickle [expletive deleted] people will move on to the next thing soon enough!

Within a few months of DC becoming a 3% card  we would see "Could the Double Cash be a 5% card, + 5 10% categories?"

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Its an easy way to keep up on what the competition is offering, especially the smaller credit unions, and also gives some insight into how rewards programs are being abused (although this place isn't as bad as places like FT and reddit).

I mean the site isn't an overwhelming amount of info to deal with. Scanning new posts in the CC forums takes me about 10 minutes of time on a busy day. When I worked at Comcast they encouraged us to report when we found out the competition was offering something that wasn't in our internal systems and we were allowed to use work computers to do the research when calls were slow.