Hi RyVision & Welcome! 
@RyVision wrote:For those looking to apply for anything without a long history, VERY low util, and a high score, beware. I have a 22 year history, 4.5 average, own home (paid for), cars (Fusion, great car, paid cash, f-150SC Lariat, paid cash), no loans, total credit is about 3900, high util around 80%. 7 accounts. NEVER a late. One dispute from 2005, won't (can't) validate, doesn''t show on reports as counting, is only listed. No Public records (do I not exist until I get a DUI or something? LOL)
Same address for nearly 20 years. Amex card member 1989 (paid, never late, closed myself 2002).
Score is only around 650 (fako is 700). (Fico was 840 in 2007, TU I think)
I have had a BofA for 3 years, never an auto increase, it's now maxed, can't say I care, it gets paid on time, if they demand payoff I'll pay it.
NOW I remember why I didn't give a hooey about credit back then.
Last 2 days:
Applied Chase Freedom, told to wait for decision, standard message I've read. No doubt a "no thanks, you closed us before".
Applied Amex Zync, couldn't approve (I used to pay them 3to4 grand a month, have no lates or derogs) I was offered 500 hard with auto draft before site crashed.
Applied Discover More, Couldn't instant approve, told to wait 5 to 7 days for additional processing. I hear that's a "no thanks"
I DID however get approved for a Credit one (pre approved mailer junk) just to see what would happen since the above, approved but waiting LOL.
HAD 1 (ONE) inq in 6 months,before that, 2 years was 4, will now have 5 or 6.
BORN HERE
Yet I see 20 year olds getting larger credit lines and scores. People that have had a SS number for a few years doing same. I gross 63k a year and don't get offers someone making 15k gets.
I think I'll go back to paying everything off, closing ANYTHING with a fee and just keep the others zero'd in my wallet for rare use.
IF I get the DMore, I'll update, but I'm guessing I won't. I think a LOT of what's on these forums is fictional as to who claims to have gotten what and what they claim their info is. A FICO of 840 didn't really mean much in 2008, if you're self employed and never needed a biz card. Maybe in a way I'm lucky.
I do agree with you that your situation reflects the realities of credit approvals today, but I think you might be doing an apples to oranges comparison to people with thinner files, higher scores, and lower utilization. It's very much possible to secure higher limits, and prime products, right out of the starting gate, if the circumstances are right. Understanding which lender to app, and when makes a big difference in the types of approvals you get. Strategic apping can work wonders.
And, strategic apping is highly recommended for more established consumers as well. Having a longer history, and more financial experience, doesn't automatically result in the most desirable products. We still have to weigh and consider the unique factors of our financial histores (what's documented vs. undocumented, as one example). Owning your own home, mortgage free & paying cash for cars makes excellent financial sense! It saves you a good bit of money, and offers a whole bunch of security. I own my home (no mortgage), as well. The only drawback (and I don't really see it as a drawback in the greater scheme of things) is that I don't get "credit" for having a mortgage, or for having had a mortgage (I paid cash for my home too). So, the fact that I own it, simply doesn't matter in the credit reporting & scoring game. Same things with cars. If you pay cash... no credit reporting = no credit scoring. Your place of birth is not a factor either. Nor is your income (for credit reporting & scoring purposes).
That brings us to what you do have reporting, and what can be scored.
The Good:
- You have a long credit history. I think FICO High Achievers have an average of 19 years, and you have 22
- You have no lates reporting
The Not So Good:
- You have 80% utilization. For all intents and purposes, that's "maxed out". That's really hurting you badly. Reducing your UTI would likely net you a significant score increase, especially if you drop to under 10% utilization.
- You have a derog (undescribed), so you're likely not in a "clean" scoring bucket. Not all disputed accounts are removed from scoring. Why do you think that this one "doesn't count"?
- You have several new or newish accounts.
- You have no installment loan history
*Your current limits, on your open revolving accounts are on the lower side, under $1k (this, in and of itself, doesn't impact your score), and low limits tend to beget more low limits, especially in light of the high utilization.
What I would have done, with your profile is this:
- Wait for my newest card to turn 1 year old.
- Pay down current cards - Have only one card report a balance of less than 10% utilization
- Wait for the updated balances to report, and my FICOs to adjust upwards
- *IF* I wanted Amex, I'd app Amex first, and get the card backdated (instant added history!!!)
- I'd research and go after a credit union card that is likely to result in a high limit (NFCU if eligible, or PSECU, or Alliant, or PenFed, as some examples)
- I'd let Amex & CU simmer for no less than 6 months (while PIFing) -- a year would be better.
- I'd go for CLIs on existing low limit cards, if customer initiated CLIs w/o hard INQs are possible in the meantime.
- I'd also do some gardening, and look at yanking any dead-end weeds (undesirable cards) that are no longer advantageous.
- Then, if there's a credit product out there that you can't live without (you mentioned Discover More & Chase Freedom), I'd pull the trigger.
Thanks for the info Sooner!
I did finally get emails from AMEX, first was: "Your application decision" Second one that came in (oddly enough) was: "Thanks for your application! " Kind of backwards lol and no mention of the hard limit offers that came up before site timed out. Maybe the hard limit offer will come snail mail, if I knew it backdated I'd be happy to do autodraft for the Zync even at just a 500 limit and without perks.
No email from Discover yet, or any others actually. The response screen (won't paste so typing it in) from Discover (about the same screen as Chase) was:
"Your Application is Being Processed"
"We have received your application but need to do additional processing before we can provide you with a decision.
Within 5-7 days we will send you more information at the address provided on your application"
"You can check the status of your application any time at (status link)"
"We thank you for choosing Discover card"
The funny thing about it is, if I worked for someone else, had a mortgage and car payment, grossing half what I do, I probably wouldn't have a problem LOL. Even though I rather prefer my situation, I have been offered a position with a large company that pays near what I gross with a very good benefits package, health, dental, vision, company match etc; which I have a lot of time to consider before accepting (luckily). I'm thinking of taking it as it would mean less actual working hours and I could remain "part time self employed". I've just never liked working for someone else, never liked dealing with banks or credit either. I was a bit of a part time working entrepreneur before I was 10 raised in a family business environment and it stuck.
As far as utilization goes, I've done the below 10% balance thing several times, didn't make any difference that I noticed, I've only hit a "luv" button a couple times with no result (all my CLI's just happened auto). Considered secured cards but most seem way to low to make a difference, I'd guess from what I've read if I could do a high limit secured it might mean something (a grand and lower probably wouldn't cut it). Not near any CU's I can join (for now) though that may be an option later.
I really didn't expect to see a response to my post when I got on the pc this AM.
I really appreciated the info and I'm glad to see people I mostly believe are trying to help others figure out the whole "how the credit gods work today" issue lol (I used to hear keep balances high so they wouldn't close your account or lower it, now I read PIF.....). Used to just be "make sure everything's paid on time, only use it when you need to etc".
Again, thanks and I'll post here if I get any updates. I know there are a lot of people out there trying to clean up some mistakes etc and are trying to buy a home or decent car to get to work, esp now days. Again I wish I had advice for them, my worst fear about a low score is if it effects insurance premiums, and now I'd like cards for discounts (rewards), and I'm tired of carrying cash when I'm traveling around 5 states (by car) since few places take checks anymore and debit cards don't always work.
Thanks LilMirth!
WOW, that's a lot of info! I should have joined here 4 years ago....
As far as the negative that "doesn't count", it shows on report details but on scoring it says I have no negatives, derogs etc under the "positive comments" The only negative comments under the scoring areas are about what you suggested, high utilization mostly, actually, it's the only thing other than low limits. I have an older report (where it does list as a negative factor before I disputed with CRA) where the DOFD is an earlier month than my new report, I don't think that's legal, I've DVd them (AFNI) in email and they claim they can't find the account and I should call them with more info, all their info on my report was included in the email, my name at the bottom below the xxxAccount number etc, they addressed me by name in the response but cut off the bottom portion that proved I sent the info to look up the account (including my name, only at the very bottom). They haven't reported since 04/2010 according to my reports. On the old report it was going to drop off late 2010 or early 2011, now it says around 2012. It's for 117 bucks..... I've considered PFD even though it would be SOL, incorrect (though of course verified through CRAs) and I never got a dunning letter. And frankly, I refuse to be blackmailed even for 1 dollar over their mistake.
So now, is the best way to pay down my current cards in one big swoop (which is possible, I just don't like the idea of possibly throwing a few grand at the works only to have the one's I DO have, closed or CLD because of it) or, to pay them down over 3, 6 or more months or?
Why PIF at this point concerns me (and why I started keeping a high balance):
My mother paid down big cards, 15k 22k, 55k, 17.5k from a 50% and less usage and they lowered some of her limits to just above the remaining balances and raised her rates from less than 6 to over 17, (we're talking a woman with a LIFE long perfect credit history, before there were CC's my parents had bank letters of credit they carried with them when traveling), she then paid them all off, over 5k each, after they wouldn't lower the rates much on the phone then she closed them (they ticked her off).
She kept a 20k heloc, which I think is on a rental, at 4%, her score has gone DOWN to 765 from 820, yet she can still write a check for a small house. She and my late father, still get pre-approved offers for BIZ cards of 50 to 150 grand, as well as personal for 25k, go figure. What's funny, is I've NEVER seen or heard of them getting an offer for a subprime. She does have ONE newer card, a JC Penny; she saw a pair of winter boots and didn't have her debit card with her when she got to the check out, they of course asked her to apply, she knew she'd be approved, to her that's just a given, 1700 instant and I think a partner card (2900) which she never activated later. All for a pair of 80 dollar winter boots on clearance that she liked and needed.
She later asked me if she ruined her credit by paying and closing all her accounts since after that they only offered her 1700 at the register. I told her "I hardly think so" so to check we pulled her MyFico (printout was nearly 3\4 an inch thick), it showed 765, no negs, perfect payment history, 39 years 11 average etc and she asked me if she had to borrow money for something if being THAT low (under 800) was good enough, she's just over 80 years old, saw the great depression as a kid etc and seeing the current economy she worries. I told her if she had to borrow money and couldn't, the rest of us might as well give up. She felt ok to buy Ford stock near it's low at least LOL. I thought the info might be unusual to read, her age and history etc as well informative in some way, if not entertaining. I only have to help her with her PC when she's unsure about it, most people think she's 68 years old, she's that active and healthy. I think we all hope to have her report at that age. 
Is there a secured card offered (with reasonable terms of course) where you can park 5 or 10 grand that would make a difference? Just asking, not sure I'd go that far yet. Is it worth giving serious thought?
I think AMEX is the reason my history is 22, I typo'ed when I stated I closed it in 2002, I think it was actually 1992 or 95 ( thought the AF was a waste and it created more paperwork than it was worth), yet it's still on there, I've had others but none show now other than the AMEX which still says "paid as agreed, never late, closed by consumer". Funny how those old cards with higher limits vanish if you pay and close them. I never gave that a thought back in the 90's. My highest limit back then was 8500 I think, another was 6k, one 4500, none of which ever got used much, they took time to pay attention to if used or not, also a lot of stuff to file. One of my first cards closed with no balance because the bank closed, got it before I got AMEX in 89. Online banking, autopay, reminders, alerts etc, those didn't exist so readily if at all back then (now we don't have to worry about checking for a balance, mailing a check on time, keeping reams of paper filed, now mostly filed in banker boxes in garage attic). When my father was in his 70's (he died in his mid 80s a few years back), he was at a local bar and the son of one of his late friends claimed Dad hadn't paid his father for replacing a large broken window in one of his businesses. My father, remembering the approximate date, went through a couple old banker boxes from the wall of them he had, found the paperwork, photocopied it and went to the bar the next day. He found the younger man, asked him to sit with him at a booth out of earshot of others, then told him for his peace of mind he thought he should see the originals and keep the copies since his father was gone. He handed him the copies of the receipt and canceled check, both sides from 1957. The younger man, in his 50s, and somewhat stunned, thanked my Dad and said his father must have forgot, then he apologized to my father as he stared at his late fathers signature on the back of check. My father never ceased to amaze me.
That was most of my history and then some lol
Thanks again for the advice and info, I really didn't expect such an informative, concise, in depth response, if any. It's very appreciated!
PS: still no email from Discover or Chase or CreditOne (that said to wait then I checked on site and said it was approved and I'd get info soon), only email were the 2 from AMEX. IF I do get Disocver or Chase (maybe Chase won't care I sent them a PIF and "fired" them over jacking up interest for no reason years ago). I'll probably not activate and cancel the CreditOne thing (unless they actually start me out over a grand for a limit) if I'm gonna pay a big fee, I'd rather have AMEX back.
@RyVision wrote:
I have an older report (where it does list as a negative factor before I disputed with CRA) where the DOFD is an earlier month than my new report, I don't think that's legal, I've DVd them (AFNI) in email and they claim they can't find the account and I should call them with more info, all their info on my report was included in the email, my name at the bottom below the xxxAccount number etc, they addressed me by name in the response but cut off the bottom portion that proved I sent the info to look up the account (including my name, only at the very bottom). They haven't reported since 04/2010 according to my reports. On the old report it was going to drop off late 2010 or early 2011, now it says around 2012. It's for 117 bucks..... I've considered PFD even though it would be SOL, incorrect (though of course verified through CRAs) and I never got a dunning letter. And frankly, I refuse to be blackmailed even for 1 dollar over their mistake.
Hmmm... I'm wondering if AFNI has attempted to reage a zombie debt. Can you repost this paragraph, with as much additional info as you have about this tradeline over in our Rebuilding forum when you get a chance? It does sound like the dispute code has removed it from scoring, but if this is really a bogus debt there are steps you can take to take care of this, and make AFNI held accountable. In addition to what you've posted here, tell us which CRAs are reporting, if and when you disputed through the CRAs, and what their response was. Also, you mentioned that AFNI didn't respond to your DV, but do you have any info at all on who the original creditor is alleged to be?
@RyVision wrote:So now, is the best way to pay down my current cards in one big swoop (which is possible, I just don't like the idea of possibly throwing a few grand at the works only to have the one's I DO have, closed or CLD because of it) or, to pay them down over 3, 6 or more months or?
Why PIF at this point concerns me (and why I started keeping a high balance):
My mother paid down big cards, 15k 22k, 55k, 17.5k from a 50% and less usage and they lowered some of her limits to just above the remaining balances and raised her rates from less than 6 to over 17, (we're talking a woman with a LIFE long perfect credit history, before there were CC's my parents had bank letters of credit they carried with them when traveling), she then paid them all off, over 5k each, after they wouldn't lower the rates much on the phone then she closed them (they ticked her off).
One of the risks of carrying high balances, over a long period of time is that when you start clearing your credit line, if your lenders are jumpy about the amount of credit extended, they'll start to chase your balance-- lowering your credit line as you pay it down. They may even chase it down to zero and close you. Unfortunately, there's nothing we can do to stop them from doing it. BUT, you can better position yourself to withstand that type of response, and come out on top.
First, paying interest (when you don't absolutely have to) is just giving your money away. No amount of credit line is worth that. I'd advise you to PIF even if I believed with 100% certainity that they'd take AA in the form of balance chasing and closure. Why? Because, once your balances are paid to zero, you can take your $$$ and go play elsewhere, and under more favorable terms. I don't think you have to worry much about that, though. Things have calmed a bit since the worst of the credit crisis, and banks are loosening the purse strings.
Second, bringing your utilization down from over 80% should net you a very nice rise in your credit score. It'll also put you (your credit profile) in a better position to be eligible for other prime credit products that your current utilization may have you excluded from. From what you've said, I really think that you should look at credit unions. You don't have to have one in your neighborhood. A good number of credit unions have eligibility criteria that will allow you to become a member without regard to where you live.
@RyVision wrote:
Is there a secured card offered (with reasonable terms of course) where you can park 5 or 10 grand that would make a difference? Just asking, not sure I'd go that far yet. Is it worth giving serious thought?
I think AMEX is the reason my history is 22, I typo'ed when I stated I closed it in 2002, I think it was actually 1992 or 95 ( thought the AF was a waste and it created more paperwork than it was worth), yet it's still on there, I've had others but none show now other than the AMEX which still says "paid as agreed, never late, closed by consumer". Funny how those old cards with higher limits vanish if you pay and close them. I never gave that a thought back in the 90's. My highest limit back then was 8500 I think, another was 6k, one 4500, none of which ever got used much, they took time to pay attention to if used or not, also a lot of stuff to file. One of my first cards closed with no balance because the bank closed, got it before I got AMEX in 89. Online banking, autopay, reminders, alerts etc, those didn't exist so readily if at all back then (now we don't have to worry about checking for a balance, mailing a check on time, keeping reams of paper filed, now mostly filed in banker boxes in garage attic). When my father was in his 70's (he died in his mid 80s a few years back), he was at a local bar and the son of one of his late friends claimed Dad hadn't paid his father for replacing a large broken window in one of his businesses. My father, remembering the approximate date, went through a couple old banker boxes from the wall of them he had, found the paperwork, photocopied it and went to the bar the next day. He found the younger man, asked him to sit with him at a booth out of earshot of others, then told him for his peace of mind he thought he should see the originals and keep the copies since his father was gone. He handed him the copies of the receipt and canceled check, both sides from 1957. The younger man, in his 50s, and somewhat stunned, thanked my Dad and said his father must have forgot, then he apologized to my father as he stared at his late fathers signature on the back of check. My father never ceased to amaze me.
You can certainly go the high limit secured card route-- there are a lot of banks and credit unions that will allow you secured limits up to the $30k range. This is a really good route for those new to credit, and those rebuilding. I sort of sounds as though you may be beyond the need for a secured card. Only you know for sure, but I think that time, the backdating of an Amex card, and a good credit union card will launch you in the direction that you want to go. I think that you might also find that your customer experience with your lender may also be infinitely more pleasant.
Your Dad sounds like he was a real gentleman, and someone to be very proud of. What he did for that young man speaks to his character, and his heart.
~repeatedly edited because my paragraph breaks keep disappearing.