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Elan "Max Cash" -vs- US Bank Cash+

Aim_High
Senior Contributor

Re: Elan "Max Cash" -vs- US Bank Cash+


@kdm31091 wrote:

I'm not sure but I would think underwriting is going to be pretty similar since it's the same underlying issuer. Your local bank offers the card, via a third party. Since the third party is the same, I would think the underwriting will also be the same, but who knows?

 

@Saeren wrote:

It's cool that there are all of these options but I have never seen any evidence that Elan is much looser than US Bank. 


I know what you're saying guys, but while Elan and US Bank are both subsidiaries of US Bancorp, they are not the same from data points I've seen on My Fico.  So IMO, we should stop treating them like they are exactly alike.  US Bank's 1 or maybe 2/12 standard is pretty well known and when we see denials, we tell people "See, we could have told you."  On the other hand, even in the pandemic, Elan has played more loosely with the Fidelity card.  And I think US Bank has been conservative for a long time but apparently Elan used to be VERY loose.  Two to four years ago, they were very easy on approvals.  Even this year with the economic downturn, it appears that they'll allow 3-6 cards in 12 months as opposed to only 1-2 for US Bank. 

 

Here are some data points I've researched before I posted the thread that show how Elan's underwriting may be different.  (*There have been several approvals in the past six months also.  Some stated they were exiting the garden or didn't specify, so I didn't include them since they don't show what Elan's limits are for a denial.)

 

10/01/20:  @small-giraffe was denied for Fidelity with 6/12.  On recon, Elan CSR said that 6/12 wasn't the issue.  It was that she had 4/6, with less than six months of reporting history. 

https://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Credit-Card-Applications/Denied-for-Fidelity-card/m-p/6150359#M2766...

 

03/27/20:  @IndianaJones was denied for Fidelity for unspecified new accounts but CSR said up to 3 in twelve months would have been okay.  Not sure of his age of credit but later postings showed about 29 open cards possibly opened in less than 18 months.

https://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Credit-Card-Applications/I-got-denied-for-a-credit-card-for-opening...

 

01/25/19: @12njoy was approved for Fidelity and reported TU FICO 720, 6 Inq's in 12 months and 9 new accounts in 12 months.

https://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Credit-Card-Approvals/Welcome-back-Fidelity/m-p/5479676#M578968

 

09/03/18:  @jacetx was approved for Fidelity.  Data points on linked Wells Fargo approval: 23 inqs (4 in the last 6 months), 6+ new accounts in the last 12 months

https://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Credit-Card-Approvals/Fidelity-2-17-5k/m-p/5347511#M558261

 

08/21/18: @khmer07  approved for Fidelity with "Bunch of recent inquiries and few new accounts"

https://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Credit-Card-Approvals/Fidelity-2-Visa-surprise/m-p/5334353#M555937

 

07/19/18:  @EvilR-T  was approved for Fidelity.  New accounts not mentioned but they pulled TU with TU-3, EX-3, and EQ-2 which would imply potential for more than 1/12.

https://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Credit-Card-Approvals/Rollercoaster-ride/m-p/5302448#M549384

 

07/05/16: @CreditCuriosity was approved for Fidelity with 21 TU inquiries, 12-14 in last 12 months. (New accounts not stated.)

https://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Credit-Card-Approvals/Approved-Fidelity/m-p/4680342#M438370

 

I think all of these data points give support to Elan being a little more gentle on approvals than US Bank.  I wouldn't apply to them with more than a few in 12 months, but the odds look much more favorable than with US Bank.  I'm also interested in seeing approval data points once we have a few members apply to these different lenders.  I don't recall seeing any Elan approvals except for Fidelity, so even though the cards are out there, our members haven't been pursuing or posting data points on them.  So we don't really know how much approvals or terms may vary from US Bank.  






Total Length of Credit > 35 years; AoOA (Currently open accounts) > 27 years
AAoA > 7 years; AoYA less than 1 year (Aug 2020)
Credit Limits: Total > $573K. Average > $28K. Utilization 1%.
Total Inquiries (TU:3 ~ EQ:4 ~ EX:7); Scorable Inquiries (TU:1 ~ EQ:2 ~ EX:4)
New Accounts: 1/6 months; 4/12 months; 11/24 months (as of 01/11/21)
* Hover cursor over each card to see name & CL, or press & hold on mobile app.
** Gardening since 08/15/20. Garden Goal ACHIEVED!!: Gold Spade on 02/15/21
Message 31 of 414
longtimelurker
Mega Contributor

Re: Elan "Max Cash" -vs- US Bank Cash+


@kdm31091 wrote:

 

 

Just glancing at the one local to me (Fulton Bank) the 5% categories are similar, but not identical, to the US Bank version. (US Bank does not have "recreation" or "entertainment" AFAIK). 


That is interesting.   So a slight variation on Cash +, I wonder why someone decided to do that (my first thought was these were older Cash+ categories, but don't think that's the case)

Message 32 of 414
Slabenstein
Established Contributor

Re: Elan "Max Cash" -vs- US Bank Cash+

Do Elan cards show up on your reports as a tradeline with Elan or a tradeline with the particular associated FI?


Message 33 of 414
Saeren
Mega Contributor

Re: Elan "Max Cash" -vs- US Bank Cash+


@Aim_High wrote:

@kdm31091 wrote:

I'm not sure but I would think underwriting is going to be pretty similar since it's the same underlying issuer. Your local bank offers the card, via a third party. Since the third party is the same, I would think the underwriting will also be the same, but who knows?

 

@Saeren wrote:

It's cool that there are all of these options but I have never seen any evidence that Elan is much looser than US Bank. 


I know what you're saying guys, but while Elan and US Bank are both subsidiaries of US Bancorp, they are not the same from data points I've seen on My Fico.  So IMO, we should stop treating them like they are exactly alike.  US Bank's 1 or maybe 2/12 standard is pretty well known and when we see denials, we tell people "See, we could have told you."  On the other hand, even in the pandemic, Elan has played more loosely with the Fidelity card.  And I think US Bank has been conservative for a long time but apparently Elan used to be VERY loose.  Two to four years ago, they were very easy on approvals.  Even this year with the economic downturn, it appears that they'll allow 3-6 cards in 12 months as opposed to only 1-2 for US Bank. 

 

Here are some data points I've researched before I posted the thread that show how Elan's underwriting may be different.  (*There have been several approvals in the past six months also.  Some stated they were exiting the garden or didn't specify, so I didn't include them since they don't show what Elan's limits are for a denial.)

 

10/01/20:  @small-giraffe was denied for Fidelity with 6/12.  On recon, Elan CSR said that 6/12 wasn't the issue.  It was that she had 4/6, with less than six months of reporting history. 

https://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Credit-Card-Applications/Denied-for-Fidelity-card/m-p/6150359#M2766...

 

03/27/20:  @IndianaJones was denied for Fidelity for unspecified new accounts but CSR said up to 3 in twelve months would have been okay.  Not sure of his age of credit but later postings showed about 29 open cards possibly opened in less than 18 months.

https://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Credit-Card-Applications/I-got-denied-for-a-credit-card-for-opening...

 

01/25/19: @12njoy was approved for Fidelity and reported TU FICO 720, 6 Inq's in 12 months and 9 new accounts in 12 months.

https://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Credit-Card-Approvals/Welcome-back-Fidelity/m-p/5479676#M578968

 

09/03/18:  @jacetx was approved for Fidelity.  Data points on linked Wells Fargo approval: 23 inqs (4 in the last 6 months), 6+ new accounts in the last 12 months

https://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Credit-Card-Approvals/Fidelity-2-17-5k/m-p/5347511#M558261

 

08/21/18: @khmer07  approved for Fidelity with "Bunch of recent inquiries and few new accounts"

https://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Credit-Card-Approvals/Fidelity-2-Visa-surprise/m-p/5334353#M555937

 

07/19/18:  @EvilR-T  was approved for Fidelity.  New accounts not mentioned but they pulled TU with TU-3, EX-3, and EQ-2 which would imply potential for more than 1/12.

https://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Credit-Card-Approvals/Rollercoaster-ride/m-p/5302448#M549384

 

07/05/16: @CreditCuriosity was approved for Fidelity with 21 TU inquiries, 12-14 in last 12 months. (New accounts not stated.)

https://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Credit-Card-Approvals/Approved-Fidelity/m-p/4680342#M438370

 

I think all of these data points give support to Elan being a little more gentle on approvals than US Bank.  I wouldn't apply to them with more than a few in 12 months, but the odds look much more favorable than with US Bank.  I'm also interested in seeing approval data points once we have a few members apply to these different lenders.  I don't recall seeing any Elan approvals except for Fidelity, so even though the cards are out there, our members haven't been pursuing or posting data points on them.  So we don't really know how much approvals or terms may vary from US Bank.  


I think it's clearly a case of YMMV like always. People who want to YOLO it should feel free to do so as long as they're okay with possibly burning a HP for a denial but there are plenty of Elan denials too, they're just harder to find because people don't post them as Elan denials but as (insert CU name here) denials. 

This is a recent Elan denial that has some interesting DPs that seems to suggest 2/12 is their limit. 

https://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Credit-Card-Applications/BMW-World-Elite-MC/td-p/6124230



Message 34 of 414
CreditCuriosity
Moderator

Re: Elan "Max Cash" -vs- US Bank Cash+

Elan has got more strict as well recently I must admit probably the bank or cu might have a bit of say, how much I have no idea.  Just like post above i tried for the BMW card about 4-5 months ago and was  shot down and I believe it was a TU or possibly Exp HP all around 800ish and it was a flat denial for two many account and or inquiries.  I think if one does do banking say at one of the above list there is. a better chance for an approval and if declined they might go to bat for you if they value you.  Don't be doing dumb stuff like me though if you have alot of new accounts/inquiries with cards not backed by banks such as the BMW which is an Elan card as CV-19 among other changes in Us Bank and less so in Elan can certainly be seen.

Message 35 of 414
FinStar
Moderator

Re: Elan "Max Cash" -vs- US Bank Cash+


@Aim_High wrote:


I know what you're saying guys, but while Elan and US Bank are both subsidiaries of US Bancorp, they are not the same from data points I've seen on My Fico.  So IMO, we should stop treating them like they are exactly alike.  US Bank's 1 or maybe 2/12 standard is pretty well known and when we see denials, we tell people "See, we could have told you."  On the other hand, even in the pandemic, Elan has played more loosely with the Fidelity card.  And I think US Bank has been conservative for a long time but apparently Elan used to be VERY loose.  Two to four years ago, they were very easy on approvals.  Even this year with the economic downturn, it appears that they'll allow 3-6 cards in 12 months as opposed to only 1-2 for US Bank. 

 

Here are some data points I've researched before I posted the thread that show how Elan's underwriting may be different. 

 

10/01/20:  @small-giraffe was denied for Fidelity with 6/12.  On recon, Elan CSR said that 6/12 wasn't the issue.  It was that she had 4/6, with less than six months of reporting history. 

https://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Credit-Card-Applications/Denied-for-Fidelity-card/m-p/6150359#M2766...

 

03/27/20:  @IndianaJones was denied for Fidelity for unspecified new accounts but CSR said up to 3 in twelve months would have been okay.  Not sure of his age of credit but later postings showed about 29 open cards possibly opened in less than 18 months.

https://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Credit-Card-Applications/I-got-denied-for-a-credit-card-for-opening...

 

I think all of these data points give support to Elan being a little more gentle on approvals than US Bank.  I wouldn't apply to them with more than a few in 12 months, but the odds look much more favorable than with US Bank.  I'm also interested in seeing approval data points once we have a few members apply to these different lenders.  I don't recall seeing any Elan approvals except for Fidelity, so even though the cards are out there, our members haven't been pursuing or posting data points on them.  So we don't really know how much approvals or terms may vary from US Bank.  


Unless we know the specific criteria for ELAN and USB respectively, the community is only viewing a limited spectrum of reported DPs.  Also, just to clarify the subsidiary piece, US Bancorp is the parent entity/holding company of USB, ELAN is the subsidiary of USB. 

 

While they have adapted a variety of their UW policies somewhat in cadence to USB UW policies, they are still considered somewhat conservative.   I would not assume they are the same (maybe just the conservative flavor) given the subsidiary aspect and respective core products.  And, if examples are being selected on prior approvals, I would exclude anything before the current economic conditions (if current DPs are to be used as some benchmark for comparison of current trends).   Plus, there really hasn't been a large data set of actual ELAN credit card approvals other than the Fidelity card, save a sprinkle or two for the other partnership banks.

Message 36 of 414
Curious_George2
Established Contributor

Re: Elan "Max Cash" -vs- US Bank Cash+


@FinStar wrote:

@ToxikPH wrote:
Got denied for this card this morning from Ent. Got too itchy I guess.

Well at least a DP for the community 😁.   If you had a slew of inquiries or accounts in the past 12+ months it was likely not going to be a slam dunk, unfortunately.  

While DPs may be all over the place, they're still somewhat conservative, especially if they've tightened up their reins to align to USB UW policies, even if they have a partnership agreement with said institution.  I have 4 ELAN products (including Fidelity acquisition from FIA) and although they seemed more flexible to obtain (prior to USB tightening up), they certainly weren't that flexible.  As with anything, it's all based on the overall profile.


So theoretically if you PC'ed all four to the new Max Cash product, you could get 5% CB in eight of their nine categories?


Message 37 of 414
Aim_High
Senior Contributor

Re: Elan "Max Cash" -vs- US Bank Cash+


@Saeren wrote:

@Aim_High wrote:


... while Elan and US Bank are both subsidiaries of US Bancorp, they are not the same from data points I've seen on My Fico.  So IMO, we should stop treating them like they are exactly alike. 


I think it's clearly a case of YMMV like always. People who want to YOLO it should feel free to do so as long as they're okay with possibly burning a HP for a denial but there are plenty of Elan denials too, they're just harder to find because people don't post them as Elan denials but as (insert CU name here) denials. 

This is a recent Elan denial that has some interesting DPs that seems to suggest 2/12 is their limit. 

https://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Credit-Card-Applications/BMW-World-Elite-MC/td-p/6124230


Agreed that things are always a lot more complicated than a single number like credit score or new accounts or inquiries.  YMMV always applies and proceeding with caution is a good thing.  Still, it appears to me a mistake to treat Elan and USB exactly alike, which data points don't seem to always support. 

 

In the linked example, OP was told 3/12 was too many and was reporting credit scores of 725-738, AAoA 6yrs 3mos,  Inquries: TU6/EQ7/EX6, Utilization: 7%.  And small-giraffe was reporting EX-9 inquiries but scores up to around 800, and was told the problem per her profile was more what was showing in six months, not twelve.  Perhaps AAoA, the higher scores, or utilization comes into play?  Or perhaps the BMW card referenced has a different underwriting standard than the Fidelity Rewards?   That's why it will be interesting to compare some approval or denial data points between different lenders on the Max Cash Preferred.  Fidelity may even vary the approval standards depending on the specifications of the sponsoring financial institution.






Total Length of Credit > 35 years; AoOA (Currently open accounts) > 27 years
AAoA > 7 years; AoYA less than 1 year (Aug 2020)
Credit Limits: Total > $573K. Average > $28K. Utilization 1%.
Total Inquiries (TU:3 ~ EQ:4 ~ EX:7); Scorable Inquiries (TU:1 ~ EQ:2 ~ EX:4)
New Accounts: 1/6 months; 4/12 months; 11/24 months (as of 01/11/21)
* Hover cursor over each card to see name & CL, or press & hold on mobile app.
** Gardening since 08/15/20. Garden Goal ACHIEVED!!: Gold Spade on 02/15/21
Message 38 of 414
FinStar
Moderator

Re: Elan "Max Cash" -vs- US Bank Cash+


@Curious_George2 wrote:

@FinStar wrote:

@ToxikPH wrote:
Got denied for this card this morning from Ent. Got too itchy I guess.

Well at least a DP for the community 😁.   If you had a slew of inquiries or accounts in the past 12+ months it was likely not going to be a slam dunk, unfortunately.  

While DPs may be all over the place, they're still somewhat conservative, especially if they've tightened up their reins to align to USB UW policies, even if they have a partnership agreement with said institution.  I have 4 ELAN products (including Fidelity acquisition from FIA) and although they seemed more flexible to obtain (prior to USB tightening up), they certainly weren't that flexible.  As with anything, it's all based on the overall profile.


So theoretically if you PC'ed all four to the new Max Cash product, you could get 5% CB in eight of their nine categories?


Theoretically, yes.  Although I already have a few other CCs that maximize value on the categories that are useful for my spend and would only leave 1 potential category that is not 5%.   So, I have entertained the idea, at least on 1 of the cards, since the Fidelity card is a Private Client version that migrated from FIA which will leave as is.   And, I already have Cash+ and AltitudeGO 🤷‍♂️

Message 39 of 414
JNA1
Valued Contributor

Re: Elan "Max Cash" -vs- US Bank Cash+

I'll be 2/12 in less than 2 weeks, so it will be interesting to see if any DP's or new apps come from this thread. If 2/12 seemed to be safe for approval, I'd give it a shot be sure I've coveted the 5% utilities CB for a while now. I wouldn't mind throwing my local bank a bone either. 

My credit card journey started 3/2018


Hover over cards to see limits and usage.
Total CL - $183,950
Cash Back and SUBs earned as of 1/1/21- $4711.66

CU Memberships

Goal Cards:


Message 40 of 414
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