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Hilton Aspire vs Marriott Bonvoy Brilliant

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simplynoir
Community Leader
Mega Contributor

Re: Will this trigger Hard Pull or Soft Pull/Amex Hilton Surpass 150K SUB/Chrome/Incognito


@AyaMai wrote:
@simplynoir wrote:

While it's not a guarantee that you will be SP'd for the app the odds are in your favor that it will be as a cardholder already. We have had reports of the occasional HP even for those that have been customers with AMEX for years. In other words it should be a SP but don't be surprised if you're the unlucky contestant at a HP either


I did apply for Marriott Bonvoy Brilliant® American Express Card on Friday, approved and will be delivered today. I have the feeling a Pop Up Jail will show up if I apply for the card today. It is odd that Aspire $450 Annual Fee has the same 150K SUB as Surpass $95 Annual Fee.


Ah, then this changes things

 

AMEX will only allow an application five days after approval of your last revolver with them. Unclear if this is business days or not so next Friday would be the safer option I would think. Another possible obstacle is how many revolver (non-charge) cards you already have with them. I'm not up-to-date on the limit has, seems to settle around 4 and then from there from reports/datapoints it depends on how AMEX views you as a customer, credit profile, income/assets, etc and from there you can get over the imposed revolver card limit

Message 11 of 19
AyaMai
Frequent Contributor

Re: Will this trigger Hard Pull or Soft Pull/Amex Hilton Surpass 150K SUB/Chrome/Incognito


@simplynoir wrote:

@AyaMai wrote:
@simplynoir wrote:

While it's not a guarantee that you will be SP'd for the app the odds are in your favor that it will be as a cardholder already. We have had reports of the occasional HP even for those that have been customers with AMEX for years. In other words it should be a SP but don't be surprised if you're the unlucky contestant at a HP either


I did apply for Marriott Bonvoy Brilliant® American Express Card on Friday, approved and will be delivered today. I have the feeling a Pop Up Jail will show up if I apply for the card today. It is odd that Aspire $450 Annual Fee has the same 150K SUB as Surpass $95 Annual Fee.


Ah, then this changes things

 

AMEX will only allow an application five days after approval of your last revolver with them. Unclear if this is business days or not so next Friday would be the safer option I would think. Another possible obstacle is how many revolver (non-charge) cards you already have with them. I'm not up-to-date on the limit has, seems to settle around 4 and then from there from reports/datapoints it depends on how AMEX views you as a customer, credit profile, income/assets, etc and from there you can get over the imposed revolver card limit


My first year anniversary with Hilton Honors card is on Wednesday, now I am getting upgarde to higher Hilton Card with no offer on the website which I will not do. Thank you for the application rules reminder plus I have to take in consideration that I have to spend $5000 in 3 months to get 150K SUB with Marriot Bonvoy Brilliant American Express Card which I am able to meet. 4-5 is the limit for American Express credit cards, in my case I have 1 or 2  slots left depending on Amex.

Message 12 of 19
K-in-Boston
Credit Mentor

Re: Will this trigger Hard Pull or Soft Pull/Amex Hilton Surpass 150K SUB/Chrome/Incognito


@AyaMai wrote:
@simplynoir wrote:

While it's not a guarantee that you will be SP'd for the app the odds are in your favor that it will be as a cardholder already. We have had reports of the occasional HP even for those that have been customers with AMEX for years. In other words it should be a SP but don't be surprised if you're the unlucky contestant at a HP either


I did apply for Marriott Bonvoy Brilliant® American Express Card on Friday, approved and will be delivered today. I have the feeling a Pop Up Jail will show up if I apply for the card today. It is odd that Aspire $450 Annual Fee has the same 150K SUB as Surpass $95 Annual Fee.


It's not uncommon for co-branded Amex cards in the same family to actually have less generous Welcome Offers for higher AF cards. A common case of this is Delta Reserve, which with its $550 annual fee will often have a Welcome Offer with far fewer SkyMiles than SkyMiles Platinum or even SkyMiles Gold.  Typically someone is already entrenched into an airline or hotel loyalty program before shelling out big bucks for a $450+ annual fee card in that program and would need less incentive to apply given the additional perks and/or features of the higher AF card.

Message 13 of 19
Citylights18
Valued Contributor

Re: Will this trigger Hard Pull or Soft Pull/Amex Hilton Surpass 150K SUB/Chrome/Incognito

The problem is the SUBs are increasingly not worth anything in the Marriott ecoystem. My 85,000 Marriot points are worth no more than 3 nights valued at $120 dollars if I look to cash them in online.

 

I'm of the opinion less hotel ecoystems are more. Claiming free hotel nights in 4-5 ecosystems is overkill. Personal Hyatt I'm sticking with because of the strong redemption value and 10x promotions on gas/groceries from time to time. Business IHG is 5x travel/transit plus 26x in network at properties. Marriott is what 6x in network? Given those points aren't worth anything you might as well be spending at their property with a CSR.

Official travel point totals as of 12/26/23 (1,382,693 Total Points)
Chase Ultimate Rewards 661,525 | IHG One Rewards 144,443 | Hilton Honors 143,801 | AMEX Membership Rewards 102,729 | World of Hyatt 90,413 | Marriott Bonvoy 65,343 | Citi Thank You 62,712 | Wells Fargo Rewards 33,652 | Southwest Rapid Rewards 28,105 | United MileagePlus 13,316 | British Airways Avios 12,333 | Jet Blue TrueBlue 11,661 | NASA Platinum Rewards 1,883 | AA Advantage 1,744 | Navy Federal Rewards 792 | Delta Sky Miles 175 | Virgin Atlantic Virgin Points 100 | Lowes Business Rewards 6,992 ($69.92) | Amazon Rewards 475 ($4.75) | Discover CB 499 ($4.99)
Message 14 of 19
K-in-Boston
Credit Mentor

Re: Will this trigger Hard Pull or Soft Pull/Amex Hilton Surpass 150K SUB/Chrome/Incognito


@Citylights18 wrote:

The problem is the SUBs are increasingly not worth anything in the Marriott ecoystem. My 85,000 Marriot points are worth no more than 3 nights valued at $120 dollars if I look to cash them in online... [snip] Marriott is what 6x in network? Given those points aren't worth anything you might as well be spending at their property with a CSR.


While I'm not consistently getting the 2-4 cpp I was a few years ago prior to the completion of the Starwood merger, I'm still getting between 1.2 and 2.17 cpp on redemptions.  85k should still easily be $1000 or so in rooms.  I definitely have seen some redemptions that are below 1 cpp, but on those I just pay or book an alternate property, and haven't seen anything approaching the 0.42 your math is working out to.  When doing valuations, are you including taxes and fees?  You don't pay those on award nights with Marriott and, in some locales, those can be enormous.

Message 15 of 19
CaptJOB
Regular Contributor

Re: Will this trigger Hard Pull or Soft Pull/Amex Hilton Surpass 150K SUB/Chrome/Incognito


@Citylights18 wrote:

Business IHG is 5x travel/transit plus 26x in network at properties. Marriott is what 6x in network? Given those points aren't worth anything you might as well be spending at their property with a CSR.


This is incorrect. If we're using that 26x number for IHG that's 10x card 10x being a member and 6x for elite status. 

 

Apples to apples with Marriott for the Brilliant puts it at 21x because it's 6x card 10x being a member and 5x for elite status. On top of the the true earn rate in either program is slightly below what the banks flaunt as only the base rate and incidentals earn points.

 

I've also not had much trouble getting over 1cpp in value with Bonvoy.

Message 16 of 19
Citylights18
Valued Contributor

Re: Will this trigger Hard Pull or Soft Pull/Amex Hilton Surpass 150K SUB/Chrome/Incognito


@K-in-Boston wrote:

@Citylights18 wrote:

The problem is the SUBs are increasingly not worth anything in the Marriott ecoystem. My 85,000 Marriot points are worth no more than 3 nights valued at $120 dollars if I look to cash them in online... [snip] Marriott is what 6x in network? Given those points aren't worth anything you might as well be spending at their property with a CSR.


While I'm not consistently getting the 2-4 cpp I was a few years ago prior to the completion of the Starwood merger, I'm still getting between 1.2 and 2.17 cpp on redemptions.  85k should still easily be $1000 or so in rooms.  I definitely have seen some redemptions that are below 1 cpp, but on those I just pay or book an alternate property, and haven't seen anything approaching the 0.42 your math is working out to.  When doing valuations, are you including taxes and fees?  You don't pay those on award nights with Marriott and, in some locales, those can be enormous.


I didn't factor in taxes and fees to the CCP equivalent. Most of the properties at locations I was looking at did not even allow me to use points and the free night was in exchange for a property only going for $115 dollars.

 

Rates I'm seeing this moment looking at booking in Tuscon for a 1/16 to 1/18 booking:

 

$249 USD (52,000 points)

$211 USD (44,000 points)

$359 USD

$151 USD

$196 USD

$536 USD

$167 USD (31,500 points)

$382 USD (65,000 points)

$157 USD

$173 USD

$309 USD

$222 USD

$239 USD

$142 USD (33,000 points)

$178 USD

$728 USD

 

Most hotels you can't even get with points. None of the hotels are anywhere close to 1 ccp (0.65 is about the best) and one hotel is 0.43 ccp. This is with Taxes and Fees Included.

 

IHG with the same location

 

$156 USD

$163 USD

$296 USD (23,200 points)

$189 USD

$222 USD (31,200 points)

$167 USD (20,800 points)

$165 USD (21,600 points)

 

While not exactly fantastic IHG is running 0.71ccp to 1.28 ccp while Marriot for the same dates and city is 0.43 to a high of 0.59. Plus IHG has a higher earn rate in property with the card than holding a Marriot card. AF on the IHG card is lower too.

Official travel point totals as of 12/26/23 (1,382,693 Total Points)
Chase Ultimate Rewards 661,525 | IHG One Rewards 144,443 | Hilton Honors 143,801 | AMEX Membership Rewards 102,729 | World of Hyatt 90,413 | Marriott Bonvoy 65,343 | Citi Thank You 62,712 | Wells Fargo Rewards 33,652 | Southwest Rapid Rewards 28,105 | United MileagePlus 13,316 | British Airways Avios 12,333 | Jet Blue TrueBlue 11,661 | NASA Platinum Rewards 1,883 | AA Advantage 1,744 | Navy Federal Rewards 792 | Delta Sky Miles 175 | Virgin Atlantic Virgin Points 100 | Lowes Business Rewards 6,992 ($69.92) | Amazon Rewards 475 ($4.75) | Discover CB 499 ($4.99)
Message 17 of 19
Citylights18
Valued Contributor

Re: Will this trigger Hard Pull or Soft Pull/Amex Hilton Surpass 150K SUB/Chrome/Incognito

Hilton wins in the total point debate though.

 

Suprass is 12x with the Hilton card then 10x as a member then a 80% multiplier on points earned as Gold member (22*1.8)=39.6 points spent on Hilton properties.

 

IHG has travel set at 5x while Suprass is only 3x. If IHG points are only worth 0.7 that is still 3.5 for travel and it also applies to parking meters. Better than using my CSP where I only get big valuation if I transfer to Hyatt which I never do because I always have plenty of Hyatt points.

 

That is something to keep in mind with a hotel card, would it be appealing to use if not on property? I will do it sometimes with my Hyatt and IHG cards.

Official travel point totals as of 12/26/23 (1,382,693 Total Points)
Chase Ultimate Rewards 661,525 | IHG One Rewards 144,443 | Hilton Honors 143,801 | AMEX Membership Rewards 102,729 | World of Hyatt 90,413 | Marriott Bonvoy 65,343 | Citi Thank You 62,712 | Wells Fargo Rewards 33,652 | Southwest Rapid Rewards 28,105 | United MileagePlus 13,316 | British Airways Avios 12,333 | Jet Blue TrueBlue 11,661 | NASA Platinum Rewards 1,883 | AA Advantage 1,744 | Navy Federal Rewards 792 | Delta Sky Miles 175 | Virgin Atlantic Virgin Points 100 | Lowes Business Rewards 6,992 ($69.92) | Amazon Rewards 475 ($4.75) | Discover CB 499 ($4.99)
Message 18 of 19
K-in-Boston
Credit Mentor

Re: Will this trigger Hard Pull or Soft Pull/Amex Hilton Surpass 150K SUB/Chrome/Incognito


@Citylights18 wrote on 1/14:


I didn't factor in taxes and fees to the CCP equivalent. Most of the properties at locations I was looking at did not even allow me to use points and the free night was in exchange for a property only going for $115 dollars.

...

Rates I'm seeing this moment looking at booking in Tuscon for a 1/16 to 1/18 booking:

...

Most hotels you can't even get with points. None of the hotels are anywhere close to 1 ccp (0.65 is about the best) and one hotel is 0.43 ccp. This is with Taxes and Fees Included.

...

While not exactly fantastic IHG is running 0.71ccp to 1.28 ccp while Marriot for the same dates and city is 0.43 to a high of 0.59.


You can't realistically base a hotel or airline loyalty program's points/miles value on bookings made only 48 hours ahead.  That would explain why you aren't even seeing redemptions on many properties.  Taking your same Monday - Wednesday booking in Tucson but planning ahead 8 weeks, here are the first handful of results:

 

PropertyPointsCashCents Per Point
Tuscon Marriott University Park54,000$5541.03
AC Hotel Tucson Downtown59,000$6871.16
TownePlace Suites Tucson42,000$6451.54
JW Marriott Tucson Starr Pass Resort & Spa118,000$1,5441.31
Courtyard Tucson Williams Centre39,500$5821.47
Sheraton Tucson Hotel & Suites39,500$4661.18

 

The Sheraton was a great property for a stay there a while back.  Also important to keep in mind for valuation, that if you typically stay 5 nights or more you'll get a lot of additional value from Marriott's 5th night free on award stays.

Message 19 of 19
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