Lesson Learned: Push your credit card payments (Chase closed my account)

[bourgogne]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@bourgogne wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

I wasn't late, at all, these were mid-cycle payments that I forgot I had put in when I used the card on Amazon. (I use, then pay, like a debit card, on this particular card). I wasn't aware they were going to close it, and I just bought a house so I put a bunch of house stuff on it and now it's at 65% usage. 

Someone said I won't see a drop - won't it report as limit of 0? I'm not exactly excited to pay off the balance when other creditors were also affected and totally understanding... even comenity!!!

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congrats on the house.  a returned payment and being late are kind of sort of the same thing to me.  a negative action is a risk and that is why in part you lost the tradeline.  if you were motivated and got to the right person you might be able to reverse this

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They aren't the same, though, unless you don't replace the payments by the due date. Say, for instance, had I not made those three small payments at all, I'd still be in a good account standing, but with a higher balance. Honestly, after talking to three different people who didn't seem to care about my issues with fraud, I'm not exactly motivated to reopen the account... mainly because all the other banks were so nice and understanding.

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actions in credit are either positive or negative.  being late and having something returned for whatever reason is a negative and therefore a risk.  some lenders are more understanding than chase, I get that.  there is only one jp morgan and I am pretty sure they like the way their risk rules are working. 

[bourgogne]

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@Anonymous wrote:

RE: the fraud

It wasn't a phishing scam or one of those swipe stealing things. I am a technical lead and have worked in everything from IT to gaming to finance to retail. I actually protect myself pretty well having been a victim of parental identity theft before now.

The person who managed to get all of my financial information was also a technical person, specifically, a database admin, for a company where my data is located (and apparently not hashed...). I know this person, and the police are involved. It's not your typical fraud situation, so I wouldn't worry about my data in the future.

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you had me at "where my data is located" can you expand on this a bit.  I have yet another cold so you are my entertainment.  well you and this juicy mr. t book lol

[bourgogne]

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@Gmood1 wrote:

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@bourgogne wrote:

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@Gmood1 wrote:
Sorry to hear this happened to you. I've read Chase and Capital One are both finicky about returned payments.
I'm glad Amex isn't this way. I still don't get what people see in Chase. They could close all five of my accounts today. Personally I wouldn't care.
I let all my lenders pull payments. If the money isn't there whether pushed or pulled.. I'm still screwed. lol

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okay i'll bite lol.  there is not a single institution that likes a returned payment and I have to ask, why do you have chase cards if you dont use them to your advantage?  totally serious question.  to answer the question from where I sit,  I have enough points in a year from 4 chase cards for 7 r/t business class tks to europe, that is one reason.  you got 5 cards, why?  again totally serious.  sorry for the thread drift

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Actually Amex is waaaay more lenient when it comes to returned payments.

I had this to happen on an employee card last year. There was a mishap. They charged me the return fee . Then a few days later credited it right back to my account. A month later they gave me another  $14k in CLs. Has anyone heard of Chase or Capital one doing that? Lol..I doubt it. 

I use the hotel cards and the Amazon from time to time. I'm more of a cash back guy. So a Chase points card really holds no interest for me. All of my Chase cards can easily be subbed by another CC from another lender. That's why I don't cling to one lender. Way too many out there to spread that love around.

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you THINK amex is more lenient.  along with chase they are the one outfit that never forgets.  they track everything, chats, record and file calls, everything and apparently forever, like from 4 decades ago...long story of how I know this ha-ha.  if you are into cash then you are right, chase is not for you.  chase is about points and subs and nothing more, well decent customer service.

[Anonymous]

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@bourgogne wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

RE: the fraud

It wasn't a phishing scam or one of those swipe stealing things. I am a technical lead and have worked in everything from IT to gaming to finance to retail. I actually protect myself pretty well having been a victim of parental identity theft before now.

The person who managed to get all of my financial information was also a technical person, specifically, a database admin, for a company where my data is located (and apparently not hashed...). I know this person, and the police are involved. It's not your typical fraud situation, so I wouldn't worry about my data in the future.

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you had me at "where my data is located" can you expand on this a bit.  I have yet another cold so you are my entertainment.  well you and this juicy mr. t book lol

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I actually can't give any specifics at the moment ;-;

[Anonymous]

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@bourgogne wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@bourgogne wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

I wasn't late, at all, these were mid-cycle payments that I forgot I had put in when I used the card on Amazon. (I use, then pay, like a debit card, on this particular card). I wasn't aware they were going to close it, and I just bought a house so I put a bunch of house stuff on it and now it's at 65% usage. 

Someone said I won't see a drop - won't it report as limit of 0? I'm not exactly excited to pay off the balance when other creditors were also affected and totally understanding... even comenity!!!

---

congrats on the house.  a returned payment and being late are kind of sort of the same thing to me.  a negative action is a risk and that is why in part you lost the tradeline.  if you were motivated and got to the right person you might be able to reverse this

---

They aren't the same, though, unless you don't replace the payments by the due date. Say, for instance, had I not made those three small payments at all, I'd still be in a good account standing, but with a higher balance. Honestly, after talking to three different people who didn't seem to care about my issues with fraud, I'm not exactly motivated to reopen the account... mainly because all the other banks were so nice and understanding.

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actions in credit are either positive or negative.  being late and having something returned for whatever reason is a negative and therefore a risk.  some lenders are more understanding than chase, I get that.  there is only one jp morgan and I am pretty sure they like the way their risk rules are working. 

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Well, they definitely are not the same... and I actually replaced 2 of the payments before they actually made it back to Chase as returned, and they assured me that everything would be fine since my account had never been late. CLEARLY NOT THE CASE.

[Gmood1]

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@bourgogne wrote:

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@Gmood1 wrote:

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@bourgogne wrote:

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@Gmood1 wrote:
Sorry to hear this happened to you. I've read Chase and Capital One are both finicky about returned payments.
I'm glad Amex isn't this way. I still don't get what people see in Chase. They could close all five of my accounts today. Personally I wouldn't care.
I let all my lenders pull payments. If the money isn't there whether pushed or pulled.. I'm still screwed. lol

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okay i'll bite lol.  there is not a single institution that likes a returned payment and I have to ask, why do you have chase cards if you dont use them to your advantage?  totally serious question.  to answer the question from where I sit,  I have enough points in a year from 4 chase cards for 7 r/t business class tks to europe, that is one reason.  you got 5 cards, why?  again totally serious.  sorry for the thread drift

---

Actually Amex is waaaay more lenient when it comes to returned payments.

I had this to happen on an employee card last year. There was a mishap. They charged me the return fee . Then a few days later credited it right back to my account. A month later they gave me another  $14k in CLs. Has anyone heard of Chase or Capital one doing that? Lol..I doubt it. 

I use the hotel cards and the Amazon from time to time. I'm more of a cash back guy. So a Chase points card really holds no interest for me. All of my Chase cards can easily be subbed by another CC from another lender. That's why I don't cling to one lender. Way too many out there to spread that love around.

---

you THINK amex is more lenient.  along with chase they are the one outfit that never forgets.  they track everything, chats, record and file calls, everything and apparently forever, like from 4 decades ago...long story of how I know this ha-ha.  if you are into cash then you are right, chase is not for you.  chase is about points and subs and nothing more, well decent customer service.

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Last time I checked, Chase rarely gives CLIs unless requested HPs. Also Chase doesn't allow SPs to get any of their other cards, when you're already a customer. This coupled with the returned payment ordeal a few months ago.. pretty much solidifies that Amex is quite lenient when compared to the other big lenders IME.

[bourgogne]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@bourgogne wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@bourgogne wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

I wasn't late, at all, these were mid-cycle payments that I forgot I had put in when I used the card on Amazon. (I use, then pay, like a debit card, on this particular card). I wasn't aware they were going to close it, and I just bought a house so I put a bunch of house stuff on it and now it's at 65% usage. 

Someone said I won't see a drop - won't it report as limit of 0? I'm not exactly excited to pay off the balance when other creditors were also affected and totally understanding... even comenity!!!

---

congrats on the house.  a returned payment and being late are kind of sort of the same thing to me.  a negative action is a risk and that is why in part you lost the tradeline.  if you were motivated and got to the right person you might be able to reverse this

---

They aren't the same, though, unless you don't replace the payments by the due date. Say, for instance, had I not made those three small payments at all, I'd still be in a good account standing, but with a higher balance. Honestly, after talking to three different people who didn't seem to care about my issues with fraud, I'm not exactly motivated to reopen the account... mainly because all the other banks were so nice and understanding.

---

actions in credit are either positive or negative.  being late and having something returned for whatever reason is a negative and therefore a risk.  some lenders are more understanding than chase, I get that.  there is only one jp morgan and I am pretty sure they like the way their risk rules are working. 

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Well, they definitely are not the same... and I actually replaced 2 of the payments before they actually made it back to Chase as returned, and they assured me that everything would be fine since my account had never been late. CLEARLY NOT THE CASE.

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I am going to let this go as you are not going to get my drift.  if you came up on the chase radar for any reason its a negative.  they dont send out fruit baskets for being on-time.  and again I will say that they can often be reasoned with.  I helped a woman get 4 cards with them last year and she was shut down and then reopened because they are often decent to reason with.  that said there are many factors in play all the time and within your profile it could have been something else they did not like.  chase is sensitive to exposure and god knows what other factors.  if you think you can paint a good story then get it in front of the right person and see what happens.

[bourgogne]

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@Gmood1 wrote:

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@bourgogne wrote:

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@Gmood1 wrote:

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@bourgogne wrote:

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@Gmood1 wrote:
Sorry to hear this happened to you. I've read Chase and Capital One are both finicky about returned payments.
I'm glad Amex isn't this way. I still don't get what people see in Chase. They could close all five of my accounts today. Personally I wouldn't care.
I let all my lenders pull payments. If the money isn't there whether pushed or pulled.. I'm still screwed. lol

---

okay i'll bite lol.  there is not a single institution that likes a returned payment and I have to ask, why do you have chase cards if you dont use them to your advantage?  totally serious question.  to answer the question from where I sit,  I have enough points in a year from 4 chase cards for 7 r/t business class tks to europe, that is one reason.  you got 5 cards, why?  again totally serious.  sorry for the thread drift

---

Actually Amex is waaaay more lenient when it comes to returned payments.

I had this to happen on an employee card last year. There was a mishap. They charged me the return fee . Then a few days later credited it right back to my account. A month later they gave me another  $14k in CLs. Has anyone heard of Chase or Capital one doing that? Lol..I doubt it. 

I use the hotel cards and the Amazon from time to time. I'm more of a cash back guy. So a Chase points card really holds no interest for me. All of my Chase cards can easily be subbed by another CC from another lender. That's why I don't cling to one lender. Way too many out there to spread that love around.

---

you THINK amex is more lenient.  along with chase they are the one outfit that never forgets.  they track everything, chats, record and file calls, everything and apparently forever, like from 4 decades ago...long story of how I know this ha-ha.  if you are into cash then you are right, chase is not for you.  chase is about points and subs and nothing more, well decent customer service.

---

Last time I checked, Chase rarely gives CLIs unless requested HPs. Also Chase doesn't allow SPs to get any of their other cards, when you're already a customer. This coupled with the returned payment ordeal a few months ago.. pretty much solidifies that Amex is quite lenient when compared to the other big lenders IME.

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IME is all that matters. good luck

[trusty]

I'm thoroughly aghast to read about so many otherwise savvy consumers giving ACH pull authorization out. That's just not sound practice, for a variety of reasons. If you do give out ACH pull auth... it better only be for a backup checking account. But, even in this case... as all "set it and forget it" ideas, they oftentimes encounter unexpected hiccups; like when the bank grossly miscalculates your payment, causing you to be late on several other accounts, as well.

I push payments, 100% of the time. If I forget to make a payment, at least I know it's on me. I will never ever give anyone access to pull monies out of my account. I didn't even have to learn my lesson... I've just had the benefit of reading extensively about unforeseen situations that others have found themselves in, oftentimes through no fault of their own... other than having payments being automatically pulled. That's the one common theme in the hiccups.

If you push pay... you know you have the money at the precise time that you send it. All the better if they receive it electronically, instead of by paper check, in which case something could still happen to the funds in the account, in the meantime, while you're waiting for them to receive the check and process it.

In the end, there will always be a time when an error occurs. This is where the digital age is not good. It used to be enough to walk into a branch and they would easily understand that fraud has side effects, and not take adverse action over it. But, when all they see is a number, they lose the human touch.

I had something bogus show up on my reports once, and I encountered adverse action before it was even cleared up. Did I get that account back, due to that terrible error? Take a wild guess. It's the breaks.

[Anonymous]

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@bourgogne wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@bourgogne wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@bourgogne wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

I wasn't late, at all, these were mid-cycle payments that I forgot I had put in when I used the card on Amazon. (I use, then pay, like a debit card, on this particular card). I wasn't aware they were going to close it, and I just bought a house so I put a bunch of house stuff on it and now it's at 65% usage. 

Someone said I won't see a drop - won't it report as limit of 0? I'm not exactly excited to pay off the balance when other creditors were also affected and totally understanding... even comenity!!!

---

congrats on the house.  a returned payment and being late are kind of sort of the same thing to me.  a negative action is a risk and that is why in part you lost the tradeline.  if you were motivated and got to the right person you might be able to reverse this

---

They aren't the same, though, unless you don't replace the payments by the due date. Say, for instance, had I not made those three small payments at all, I'd still be in a good account standing, but with a higher balance. Honestly, after talking to three different people who didn't seem to care about my issues with fraud, I'm not exactly motivated to reopen the account... mainly because all the other banks were so nice and understanding.

---

actions in credit are either positive or negative.  being late and having something returned for whatever reason is a negative and therefore a risk.  some lenders are more understanding than chase, I get that.  there is only one jp morgan and I am pretty sure they like the way their risk rules are working. 

---

Well, they definitely are not the same... and I actually replaced 2 of the payments before they actually made it back to Chase as returned, and they assured me that everything would be fine since my account had never been late. CLEARLY NOT THE CASE.

---

I am going to let this go as you are not going to get my drift.  if you came up on the chase radar for any reason its a negative.  they dont send out fruit baskets for being on-time.  and again I will say that they can often be reasoned with.  I helped a woman get 4 cards with them last year and she was shut down and then reopened because they are often decent to reason with.  that said there are many factors in play all the time and within your profile it could have been something else they did not like.  chase is sensitive to exposure and god knows what other factors.  if you think you can paint a good story then get it in front of the right person and see what happens.

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I get your drift. I'm not saying a returned payment isn't a negative. It is. But you're saying it's the same as paying late, when it's not. If the payment is instantly replaced, it's clear that it was a mistake and not meant to get extra spend that couldn't be accounted for. It's frustrating when people like you pop up to play devil's advocate like Chase is perfectly justified, when I never stated they weren't. There's nothing to advocate here for, as I already said it was my fault and I learned a lesson. I'd just prefer to spend my money with institutions who understand when I send them a copy of a police report to explain the returns, have a good history with them, and no negative marks on my credit over nearly 7 years. They were the last card I got, and there doesn't appear to be any AR from them on any CB, so I doubt my spread had anything to do with the closure. I chose to put all those items on that card, instead of my NFCU, and I'm regretting it now. I don't hate Chase or anything, they are just a bank, but like I said, the circumstances around the returns were out of my control, and it's frustrating that if I want to stay a Chase customer, I'd have to try even harder than I already have to get it back.